What is your Definition of a Line?
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Temperament is partially inherited and partially created through how the dog is raised.
Sharon, if I understood your question, you are asking if you can soften a strong tempered line by crossing to a mellow line. Yes and no. Crossing extremes such as a very dominant animal to a very laid back animal will not give you a litter of "middle of the road" pups. You will get all areas of the spectrum. For example, my foundation bitch Keiko was a headstrong pain in the butt. Not aggressive or dominant, just headstrong and determined. I bred her to a male Hawk who was calm tempered and had many easy going relatives. I had two total pain in the butt pups, one leaning towards pain in the butt, and two easy to live with pups. I took the easy to live with bitch and bred her to a Kenset male Hans. Hans had many generations of selective breeding for mellow temperament behind him. Linebreeding on the easier to live with dogs has helped to set this type of temperament in my dogs but they are still Basenjis and can be a handful at times.
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Resessive trait then?
It is more complex, temperament is a combination of several traits. So it sort of depends on how it all comes together.
Like the Kenset temperaments are mellow and I am very happy with my my Kenset descendants but Nicky has never really liked his crate, in talking with Andrea I think that Querk is much the same. I think this is may be inherited, both Nicky and Querk have Prune as a common ancestor. And yet Rally, Nicky's niece has always loved her crate so it isn't all the descendants who have it.
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Thank you, yes, that that was what I was asking.
Ok, next uneducated question…if you have a mean, but show b, and breed him to mellow, mellow, mellow, is there ever a point where the recessive doesn't show up? say 3 or 5 generations later...
Or can it always show up.. -
The thing with a recessive trait is that it "hide" for many generations and then crop up. Also because temperament is influenced by socialization, good socialization can help with some issues so that it can be difficult to assess exactly what you have genetically.
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Thank you, that is what I was asking and had a tough job of it.
I appreicate you all being kind to me re this subject. -
Yes, particularly with Querk…great ear shape and set, nice shaped head, lots and lots of wrinkle. There is a lot of other lines mixed in there with him...but I aways thought I could see a lot of the Prune in him.
Yes, I'm finding the head has consistently come through.
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Yes, particularly with Querk…great ear shape and set, nice shaped head, lots and lots of wrinkle. There is a lot of other lines mixed in there with him...but I aways thought I could see a lot of the Prune in him.
Yes, I'm finding the head has consistently come through. When I first started showing Shadow up in Canada, I had one judge say to me afterwards that this type of head is being lost and that it was nice to see that type of head again.
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It is more complex, temperament is a combination of several traits. So it sort of depends on how it all comes together.
Like the Kenset temperaments are mellow and I am very happy with my my Kenset descendants but Nicky has never really liked his crate, in talking with Andrea I think that Querk is much the same. I think this is may be inherited, both Nicky and Querk have Prune as a common ancestor. And yet Rally, Nicky's niece has always loved her crate so it isn't all the descendants who have it.
Sugar and Shadow are the same line and come down from the same, especially as Nicky, line. However, Sugar is much worse in the crate than Shadow.
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Temperament is not inherited in a simple pattern. As everyone has mentioned environment has a huge impact on inherited temperament. Some things that can effect a dog's temperament that probably are hard wired are prey drive, arousal threshold and ability to problem solve. Generally in Basenjis all of these things are high…which is what makes them more difficult to live with, but there is variation within the breed too.
With our six dogs, three are from one line, and three from another...I can see which behavior(s) have been passed down thru their lines. One group is very closely related...the other group two are closely related and the other individual in that group is fairly outcrossed.
I could go on and on about my observations, but most folks would be totally bored ;)
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I'm not a breeder but I was just wondering about the body thing. What I meant was were the earlier basenjis stockier?
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I'm not a breeder but I was just wondering about the body thing. What I meant was were the earlier basenjis stockier?
Really depends on the bloodlines… some lines are... some are not... if you look at some of the pictures of very early Basenjis, you will see both body types...
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It can also vary greatly by region.
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Like the Kenset temperaments are mellow and I am very happy with my my Kenset descendants but Nicky has never really liked his crate, in talking with Andrea I think that Querk is much the same. I think this is may be inherited, both Nicky and Querk have Prune as a common ancestor.
I don't think I would blame Prune on the crate issues with Nicky but rather his grand-dam Keiko. Keiko panicked in a crate and I feel she was claustrophobic. As such, she was completely uncrateable her entire lifetime. Since Keiko is behind everything I have ever bred, a difficult crater will pop up here and there. The odd thing here is that some of the dogs I have placed as older puppies/young adults will crate just fine in my home but then when they change homes they become problem craters. I do not know why this happens.
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I don't think I would blame Prune on the crate issues with Nicky but rather his grand-dam Keiko. Keiko panicked in a crate and I feel she was claustrophobic. As such, she was completely uncrateable her entire lifetime. Since Keiko is behind everything I have ever bred, a difficult crater will pop up here and there. The odd thing here is that some of the dogs I have placed as older puppies/young adults will crate just fine in my home but then when they change homes they become problem craters. I do not know why this happens.
Though he may have inherited this trait from more than one source, I do think some of the characteristics that contribute to his crating issues probably come from the Kenset side of the pedigree. Really, it is very interesting how similarly Nicky and Querks attitudes and behaviors are, there common ancestor is Prune so I do think that some of these have been inherited from him, even if they were not traits he himself exhibited.
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Though he may have inherited this trait from more than one source, I do think some of the characteristics that contribute to his crating issues probably come from the Kenset side of the pedigree. Really, it is very interesting how similarly Nicky and Querks attitudes and behaviors are, there common ancestor is Prune so I do think that some of these have been inherited from him, even if they were not traits he himself exhibited.
I agree that there may be some inherited factors…Querk's mom, Glory Be was the screamer before him, and I think they said that her mom Cynosure Diana was also a screamer...but anyhow...
Not only do Querk and Nicky act similarly, they also have a lot of similar physical traits. Very leggy, similar heads, from what I remember from photos. But I think part of their behavior may be similar because they have 'first son' syndrome ;) Both were the first and only dog for a few years in both families (right?)...all the attention, training, lovin, etc focused on them alone. I'm not sayin spoiled...but you know....special ;)
That is not to discount what I consider to be a definite inherited 'crate phobia' or 'confinement phobia'. I think that is a far more important behavioral trait in our breed to research than fence climbing...but ya know...nobody really asked me ;)
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I agree that there may be some inherited factors…Querk's mom, Glory Be was the screamer before him, and I think they said that her mom Cynosure Diana was also a screamer...but anyhow...
Not only do Querk and Nicky act similarly, they also have a lot of similar physical traits. Very leggy, similar heads, from what I remember from photos. But I think part of their behavior may be similar because they have 'first son' syndrome ;) Both were the first and only dog for a few years in both families (right?)...all the attention, training, lovin, etc focused on them alone. I'm not sayin spoiled...but you know....special ;)
That is not to discount what I consider to be a definite inherited 'crate phobia' or 'confinement phobia'. I think that is a far more important behavioral trait in our breed to research than fence climbing...but ya know...nobody really asked me ;)
Interesting you bring up screamers… Tego (DC Tanza's Tego) is a screamer, sire is Ch Jerlin's Reckless Ricochett (which I believe is also Cynosure Diana's Grandsire on the bottom of the pedigree)... however, Tego's uncle on his dam's side (Dam is DC Zuri's Ti-Tanza Wazi Ajabu) was a screamer totally.... so hard to say what side of the pedigree it comes from...
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Not only do Querk and Nicky act similarly, they also have a lot of similar physical traits. Very leggy, similar heads, from what I remember from photos. But I think part of their behavior may be similar because they have 'first son' syndrome ;) Both were the first and only dog for a few years in both families (right?)…all the attention, training, lovin, etc focused on them alone. I'm not sayin spoiled...but you know....special ;)
Yes, they do both share similiar physical traits too. I do think the leggy look comes from that side and Nicky definitely has a Kenset head. They are both first sons so similar environmental factors could also be at play. Though my mom's boy Cole, Rally's son, who also shares the same behavioral traits and is a "first son", both Pat and I knew at 4 weeks old he was going to be like that no matter what home he went into.
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Linebreeding has been forbidden here our dog´s can be maximum 6,25% related counting on 5 generations.So can one see from which kennel certain dog´s come from yes on can as their breeders tend to choose a certain type of basenji over and over again.Also typewise one can see a difference between aussie and american basenjis I prefer a mix of those two types.But isn´t the most important to follow the breed standard so that we keep the basenji true to it´s origins.
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Yes, I try to follow breed standard when choosing which dog I will breed to, but we also must consider temperment, and movement which you don't see by a picture. But, we are losing a lot by mixing too many lines as well. We have an old rule of thumb, I at least, try to follow-it's twice in, once out. That means bread in the line twice and then do an outcross. A lot of the dogs, everywhere, are losing certain things such as a good front and a stop and I'm finding we are getting some big feet and ears as well as large dogs period. This is MO only.
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True Arlene good temperament and has passed all health tests,moves soundly the way a Basenji should are of utmost importance.It´s no good if the dog stacks perfectly when he´ll fall apart whilst gaiting.We have also the problem with too straight upperarms and crappy fronts which are sooo difficult to breed in one´s their gone.
