Possible Breed Banning - HELP

[jenwilson]

A terrible thing happened in Knox County Monday afternoon. A young lady was mauled and killed by two pit bulls. Now the public is outraged and a lot of them want the breed banned.

What are your views on breed banning? I don't blame the breed, but the owner or possibly a bad breeder who bred dogs that shouldn't have been bred.

I really do not want to see a breed ban. What would be the best way to approach this subject, while trying to convince people it's not the breed?

Thanks for any help. All comments are welcome. I know some may not share my views, but others will.

Keep in mind these dogs were already deemed dangerous in August of this year!!! Here's a link to the story: http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=51277

[BasenjiDiva]

This is one of those subjects that my DH and I would disagree on. Some years ago while he was out running, he was attacked by 2 pit bulls who had been raised and trained by their owner/breeder (a prominent local veterinarian!) to hunt wild hogs. The area in which we live was semi-rural at the time and, in violation of local leash laws, the dogs were not kept in a fenced area. DH knew where the dogs lived and usually ran with a stick. On this date, he was thinking of other things and forgot to pick one up. As he ran past their property - on the OPPOSITE side of the road - he got an eerie feeling and the hair stood up on his neck. He turned around just as the dogs jumped him. They were that silent in their attack. DH was able to hold on to a tree to keep from being pulled down and his legs are so muscular that the dogs actually did less damage than one would expect. They were able to tear the skin on 7 sites on his legs and nicked his calf muscles in one or two places. DH had to have the rabies shots because although the dogs were immunized they could have transmitted rabies if they had been chewing on a rabid raccoon. Had this been a child or woman, they would have been severely mauled and/or killed. So DH's view on this issue is strikingly different from mine! My view is that the breed itself is not dangerous and reputable breeders, one would hope, are breeding for a more mellow temperment. I've known people who have owned sweet - even wussy - pit bulls. Would I own one with small children…..probably not! However, I think it is dangerous and wrong to categorize all pit bulls as dangerous.

Earlier this year, a small (and UNSUPERVISED) child (aged 3 I think), climbed over a fence while his family was visiting someone on Hunter Army Airfield here in Savannah. Unfortunately, he climbed over the fence to visit the neighbor's pit bulls. He was mauled and killed. The dog's owners were found to be without guilt since the child did climb the fence, no one was supervising him, and I don't think the dogs had ever attacked anyone. There were all sorts of rumors around town afterwards but I'm just giving the facts as I know them from the news accounts. As a result, Hunter Army Airfield (and presumably Ft. Stewart and maybe even other military posts) now has banned anyone from moving into post housing and keeping the following breeds: Akitas, Boxers, Chows, Dobermans, Pit Bulls, Rotweillers, Staffordshire Terriors, Wolf hybrids or "Other breeds with dominant traits geared towards aggression". I grew up with Boxers and we had a Boxer for our children when they were younger. I cannot think of many breeds that are sweeter….goofy but sweet. They are especially tolerant of young children! And what about that last exclusion??? That is very broad and depends upon who you talk to. (The people who already live on post with the "banned" breeds are being allowed to stay in post housing.)

So anyone on this board who is in the military and might be going into post housing.....check the local post/base pet policy before making the decision.

Pat

[WBL]

I'm with Pat (BasenjiDiva) on everything she said.

I am also in complete udder horror that Fort Stewart and Hunter have banned boxers, that just makes me sick, especially with what you said about the breed, I have one now and have owned two before. I have no idea where they thing that a boxer has a dominant trait geared towards aggression. I have never met any dog that was more tolerant than a well trained boxer. Reggie my boxer that I have now lets my Basenji Tiggy run literally all over him.

And on that same note, I am in the military and when we used to live on post we had a family move in next door to use that had two boys, 4 and 5, Matt was the younger and I have never seen a child more terrified of dogs in my life, where Pete the older one was in love with Reggie. Now the part that always makes me smile to remember, in 6 months Matt was no longer terrified of dogs and both him and his brother would every day after work ring my bell and ask if Reggie could come out and play. Now other than Reggie Matt was still careful around dogs but he was no longer terrified of them. I could hand Reggie's leash to them and they would walk him on the side walk around the cul-de-sac and he would never once pull them, even if he saw a squirrel (he'd rip my arm off, lol). Reggie let these kids climb on him and tug on his ears and just be kids and never once snapped even if they stepped on him and he yelped.

Okay sorry about the small tangent, the bad thing is bad and/or stupid people create untrained and/or badly trained dogs and half the time they don't realize it. then it come to where something bad happens and the breed itself is punished and not the people. If it were me I'd require people to obtain a license to own a dog. Boxers, get bad raps because they are misunderstood to be pitty's, pits get bad raps because of owners and the media.

[Tayda_Lenny]

I think licenses for a person to own a specific type of dog is a good idea. Something that shows that the owner has taken steps to learn how to train a dog properly…

I was walking the other day and saw a guy sitting at a picnic table with a MASSIVE pit bull sitting next to him. I stopped and talked to him about his dog for a while... it was a 120 lb pit! yikes. this one happened to be extremely well trained, or at least appeared to be for the 10 minutes i saw him. just imagine what a dog that size could do if it were agressive. His collar was the size of my belt!

[sharronhurlbut]

I work at the Post office and have a mail rural route.
LOTS of dogs will and do bite.
Few make the paper.
In my life, the dogs that have the most chance to bite are the little dogs.
Myself. I love the pit breed.
They are the "power dogs now" that appeal to the stupid and cruel people who work to make them into fighters.
BUT remember, dobbies and boxer and german shepards were one time considered "bad/mean dogs".
Lets not foreget the bad basenjis that were the norm at one time…the good breeders who work to have a well balanced basenji, not only lovely to look at be a good dog as well...
BAD owners make bad dogs..
Bad the deed and not the breed.

[luvsmy2bs]

You go Sharon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GREAT points!!!!!!!

[sharronhurlbut]

Thank you..I work the rescue booths at the Seattle dogs shows, and the pits have a booth down from us..
Those wonderful dogs, tails wagging, great big smiles…just want to be loved and breath hot doggie breath on you...
Just love dogs.
Not all pits are like this..
Heavens, not all b's are good dogs either..
BUT its the owners and breeders who should be punished, when they turn any breed into a sad, frightened, biting dog.

sorry, as you can see I am a bit passionate about this!

I am so very happy I know such good basenji breeders.
They make sure the dogs they breed are good and screen the folks who buy these beloved pups that they breed.

[jenwilson]

New this morning… one of our State Senator's is pushing for tougher laws for owning pits. He suggests mandatory alterating of the dogs to help alleviate some of their aggressiveness. If this works I'd have no problem with it. What do you guys think?

[tanza]

I think it is wrong to make "mandatory" spay/neuter of any dog…. that is NOT solving the problem and in my opinion this will not make a lot of difference... I have seen just as many aggressive "neuter/spayed" dogs as intact. Spay/neuter is NOT a cure all for aggressive dogs.

[Nexa]

Even if they pass a mandatory spay/neuter law for pits, it only affects law abiding citizens. People who breed dogs for fighting or train them to be aggressive don’t care about the laws. I completely understand that pits can be great pets, but the amount of damage they can inflict when they turn on people is just incredible. If you put those jaws on a small breed like a Chihuahua you’d have the same problems.

Dan

[WBL]

@Nexa:

Even if they pass a mandatory spay/neuter law for pits, it only affects law abiding citizens. People who breed dogs for fighting or train them to be aggressive don’t care about the laws. I completely understand that pits can be great pets, but the amount of damage they can inflict when they turn on people is just incredible. If you put those jaws on a small breed like a Chihuahua you’d have the same problems.

Dan

Yes that is true also Dan, but I have read many articles where small dogs have mauled and seriously injured children before. ANY dog can cause damage no matter what the size and any dog could kill. Yes granted a small dog doesn't have a chance really to kill an adult but they can kill babies and toddlers

[JazzysMom]

I have a friend whose young son was badly mauled by a pug a few years ago.
It was awful. Kid's face was a mess, and consequently he has a severe fear of dogs.
My dd was bitten by a neighbor's cockapoo a fews years back.
Jazzy has bitten TWICE – drawn blood on kids' faces! -- and she is the most mellow Basenji you'll ever meet.

Come to think of it, ALL the people I know personally who've been bitten to the point of blood/injury have been bitten by small dogs.
None of the large dogs I've ever owned or known have ever bitten anyone.

When my oldest dd was a toddler, dh got me a dobie for my birthday. I got soooo tired of hearing, "You've got a baby, and you got a doberman?".
That dog was the second best dog EVER with kids {Gypsy is the BEST}.

So far my nieces three pits {2 males, 1 female} are awesome with her new baby, and have always been fantastic with my kids. They LOVE the children, and tolerate MUCH abuse at their hands.
She used to have a rottie that wasn't nuts about some adults {but not aggressive toward them}, but loved kids and disabled people.

I can't stand small dogs. I

In fact, the Basenji is a little small for my taste. This breed was a compromise between myself and dh, who prefers small dogs. Now that I have them, I love the breed. But generally speaking, I am more drawn to large dogs. I trust them more.

[JazzysMom]

@WBL:

Yes that is true also Dan, but I have read many articles where small dogs have mauled and seriously injured children before. ANY dog can cause damage no matter what the size and any dog could kill. Yes granted a small dog doesn't have a chance really to kill an adult but they can kill babies and toddlers

I don't like the mandatory spay/neuter laws because that can really put quality owner/breeders in a financial bind, and also endangers the breed as a whole, and I would hate to see this breed disappear.

[tanza]

And once one breed is targeted, you can rest assured that other will follow… California is back with their AB1634 Mandatory Spay/Neuter now also being pushed by HSUS and PETA... this is the bill that was "pulled" pending "re-write" which was more like, we are losing the battle, so lets pull it instead of getting it defeated and then present it again. Which will happen in January. This bill will stop all responsible breeders from breeding ever.... along with all competive dog events....and if you are interested in reading about this bill, go to the petpac website.

[achandl2]

The news in Knoxville have reported that there appears to be evidence on the property of the dogs' owner that they were practicing some dog fighting training techniques. Also the woman who was attacked was the roommate of the dogs' owner so I would be surprised if she was completely unaware that they were training the dogs to act violently. I think its sad that the breed gets such a bad rep. As far as the neuter/spay mandatory laws go, we have a pit bull living below us who is one of the sweetest dogs. He plays with Manning regularly and even when Manning has been snappy with him he never retaliates. The whole situation sucks for us all. I think you have to be careful when you make laws banning certain breeds or mandating the spay/neuter of others. Plus the people who are training their dogs to fight are not likely to follow any new law as they are breaking the ones that exist already.

I think its worthwhile to mention that several months ago a Siberian Husky mauled and killed a toddler in Kingston (about 30 min from Knoxville) but it didn't create the news or dialogue that the pit bull attack has caused.

[sharronhurlbut]

Any dog can become a "banned" breed.
This owners are the ones responsible for bad dogs I do understand some dogs are crazy and I am not talking about those…I am posting about dogs who are breed for aggressiveness.
That is why this dog fighting with Vick was such a hot botton to me.
This guy had more $$$ than anyone could want..and he chose to get pups and fight them.
He bred for aggressiveness and killed the ones who didn't/wouldn't fight.
THAT is the type of breeder/owner that we should BAN!
The human is at fault, not any one breed.
Heavens, we all know how quirky our b's are.
Can you imagine what we would feel is they were on the BANNED LIST???
Horrific!

[sharronhurlbut]

I do rescue, so I do like spay/neuter, but these folks who are breeding for aggressiveness won't pay any attention to any of the laws that are passed.
However, putting them in jail should get their attention.
Pits are a good dogs but can be bred into a fighting dog.
Basenjis are now good breeds, but anyone who has done rescue, or owned a "damaged" basenji knows they will bite and that can do damage!
We need to put the responsiblity on the bad owners who breed for fighting dogs or even the BAD breeders who breed defective dogs and know it, and sell them anyway.
Puppy lemon law anyone???
That shouldn't hurt the good breeders who have "something" come up, but the breeders who consistantly have sick/bad dogs…
Just a thought.