If anyone can find this info, its Jennifer. She is a wonder at this type of thing.
OFA Fanconi Results
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I had the best news ever today with Kwames result coming back clear. I'm so glad the waiting is over, it was torture!!
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I had the best news ever today with Kwames result coming back clear. I'm so glad the waiting is over, it was torture!!
Super news… WooHoo.....
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And by the way all, there are over 840 now tests with the last ones that were just completed… I am still waiting for Kobey's sire's test... since his Dam is a Carrier, I am hoping that his Sire is Clear... hope we get them soon...
Just a note again that there has been a call by the Health Endowment for any dog that is already affected to submit their dogs asap for further research for the final test...
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I still haven't gotten results back on my dogs. The waiting is not fun, esp. since I have realized that I was mistaken about Jazzy's sire's results. He is not a carrier, but probably affected. Since her mom has Fanconi, it's a sure bet she's affected too. sigh.
Still hoping Keoki's clear, but I can live w/him being a carrier.
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Congratulations Basi on the good news.
Pat let´s hope the dad is clear these are tough times for breeders around the world but at the same time it´s good that we can have them tested so that we know with whom one can breed it´s not the end of the world just makes it a bit more difficult.I´m looking forward to next year when the real test should be ready.
I´m so sorry for the bad news Jazzys Mum there´s been similar kinda of news here in sweden and my heart goes out to all of them with affected dog´s let´s just hope they still can have a good life. -
but also sad to see that many of the prominate breeders have yet to test
I would hope in the future that people getting dogs would demand to see breeders results before purchasing a dog.
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MOST responsible breeders are testing. I would hope though, that this is used in conjuction with the pedigree. This test is not 100% yet. Although close, it's still a probable test and not a 100% that a dog will develop fanconi symptoms. It's still a reasearch game.
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They (the team that is doing the ongoing fanconi research) is still trying to perfect the test. THAT to me is a research game. When the test becomes a positive 100% match test and no longer a probable test, then, and only then should it be relied on 100%. Anything less gives it a highly probable-but still probable-chance of the test being wrong. While the current test is highly indicative of the odds being correct it's still not 100%. Again this is IMO. An excerpt from the Basenji Health Endowment site states:
This is a new test. We can report that all of the double-blind samples used for validation fell into one of the four categories (normal, carrier, affected, indeterminate) and that approximately 75% of the samples that tested affected were already known to be affected and none of the samples that tested normal were known to be affected, or had parents that were known to be affected. About 10% of the samples tested returned an indeterminate result.
Hope you don't think I'm nuts, but I'm leary considering 10% is indeterminate. This means to me out of every 10 dogs 1 may or may not be affected.
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The number of indeterminates is currently at 4% of the dogs tested and has held consistently at this number once we had a significant number of tested dogs. It is also important to understand that an indeterminate results is not caused by the test not functioning it was actually designed in such a way that the researchers would be able to tell if the markers may have broken away from the gene.
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I guess I just didn't understand why you called it game….
The indeterminantes are between clear and carrier...not affected at least so far. As long as you breed an indeterminant to a clear, it should be fine. At least the way I understand it.
That being said, I am putting my faith in this test...but I am not ready to declare it "perfect" yet. Time will tell...and I think every reasonable breeder feels that way as well...
There does seem to be some possiblity that there are dogs that are testing out as affecteds and carriers by the test, and the genetically inherited pattern, but are not symptomatic at least yet. Which is great for them, and their owners/breeders, and a mystery to be unraveled. But I have not heard of any dogs which tested clear and developed symptoms.
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MOST responsible breeders are testing. I would hope though, that this is used in conjuction with the pedigree. This test is not 100% yet. Although close, it's still a probable test and not a 100% that a dog will develop fanconi symptoms. It's still a reasearch game.
There have been over 800 Basenjis tested and there is not one result that has come back that an affected produced a clear or that a clear produced an affected. While it is a linkage test, I think the results are pretty much right on … and what we do not know about Fanconi is that there could be lots of Basenjis that have the genes for Fanconi and never develope the symptoms...
As far as I am concerned it is 100% right on. Not to say that if I had an affected that I would not re-test -
Again, (I knew I would get shot at) this is MY OPINION. This test is stated by the people who developed the test that this is not 100%. Not every dog that has the Fanconi gene will develop symptoms. I have never said that. In fact there are a lot of dogs who will probably never develop symptoms. MY OPINION is that this is a complex recessive gene. Not a simple recessive gene. The results are not right on if there is an even 1% chance of indeterminate. As I said when they develop a test that is 100% right ALL of the time with no indeterminate then I will wholeheartedly rely on the test. Also this test was just put into practice this year. A new test (no matter what kind of test) will always have a few bumps and kinks. If this is a simple recessive then of course the offspring will not produce it. However, if this is a complex recessive gene it could, theoretically, disappear throughout generations and then suddenly pop up. I have always (when dealing with gene therapy) have said never say never. As I have said before - YOU have your opinion; I have mine. I will still practice being safer than sorry. For me, to place my trust in a new test that has been stated NOT to be 100% accurate is not for me. I will use this test, however I will also always look at the background pedigree.
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Again, (I knew I would get shot at) this is MY OPINION. This test is stated by the people who developed the test that this is not 100%. Not every dog that has the Fanconi gene will develop symptoms. I have never said that. In fact there are a lot of dogs who will probably never develop symptoms. MY OPINION is that this is a complex recessive gene. Not a simple recessive gene. The results are not right on if there is an even 1% chance of indeterminate. As I said when they develop a test that is 100% right ALL of the time with no indeterminate then I will wholeheartedly rely on the test. Also this test was just put into practice this year. A new test (no matter what kind of test) will always have a few bumps and kinks. If this is a simple recessive then of course the offspring will not produce it. However, if this is a complex recessive gene it could, theoretically, disappear throughout generations and then suddenly pop up. I have always (when dealing with gene therapy) have said never say never. As I have said before - YOU have your opinion; I have mine. I will still practice being safer than sorry. For me, to place my trust in a new test that has been stated NOT to be 100% accurate is not for me. I will use this test, however I will also always look at the background pedigree.
A simple recessive gene can disappear and pop up generations later, just look at the Tri gene… so I don't agree that this is a complex recessive
And judging results we have seen so far, good luck in looking at pedigrees, while people have been doing pretty darn well I believe that the luck would have turned drastically to the bad side. Judging by the amount of carriers, IMO... in 5 years if we had not had this test we would be over run with Fanconi dogs. And what makes you think that there will not be a "+/-" factor with the direct test?
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The issue of expression or lack there of is separate from the inheritance of the gene itself. There is much new research into what was previously called "junk" DNA because it did not code for proteins and is therefore not part of "genes" but it has now been found that these sections of DNA do hold the key to the on/off switches for genes. It may be many years before scientists know why there is variable expression of Fanconi Syndrome in basenjis that does not mean the linkage test is not correct nor does it mean that when a direct test is available there will not be dogs that have two copies of the gene but it will not get turned on, that does not make the test inaccurate.
Also the "tri" gene does not disappear for generations, it is not expressed but it is still passed down. It takes 2 copies of the gene for expression to occur and the best way to think of the variable expression of Fanconi is to think of it like how we get different expressions of "tri" like Barred, Capped, Muddy, and those who lack all tan points. All of them are genetically "tri" but there are other modifiers completely separate of the "tri" gene at work. The same thing may also be true of Fanconi but you can still get rid of the disease in the population by preventing any individuals with 2 copies of the gene from being born.
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I believe that since there have been over 800 tests done and the results have shown to be true that we can trust this test… I can tell you that I am rethinking many dogs that in the past I would not have given the time of day to for breeding.
Certainly it is better then what we had before July 2007...
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And to just add that I trust the test more that I trust pedigrees or what others tell me…. this backs up the word.... no more "not in my line"... thank goodness... now they have to put their money where their mouth is....
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I do trust the test- to a point. I just want to what is behind it that MAY have produced a problem. I would not trust what a person says when they say "I've never had a fanconi problem". They may have produced a dog as a carrier and not known it. And I know of a few "high end" or "popular" breeders who have a multitude of dogs and list one dog as sire but that is not the actual sire.
And yes, I agree that no test is technically 100% but if they say the test is 100% then it sould be dang close. I call all research a 'game' Andrea, because there is nothing to say that one thing could not be done by one team and be right. (if that makes any sense) There have been numerous instances when a team is looking for one thing and stumbles onto something else. It reminds me of rats in a maze. They chase the ultimate end and what is the result is used in other tests. It's a big circle. I don't think it's a conspiracy, mystery, or that there is a hidden agenda. But all research chases an end result. And don't forget, research can be flawed. Look what happened with the Thalidamide babies. The teams researched and tested and 10 years after they started giving women this drug for morning sickness it was finally linked to deformations. There are many other instances as well, THAT is why, IMO, it's better to combine researches than just to rely on one test.
And you're right Pat. I have been rethinking dogs as well that I may have used previously. And if they resist having the dogs tested, then you kind of wonder why they don't want to test. This may indicate a problem only they are aware of and I, personally would not want to deal with the person then.
If it's a question of money, then I would want to work with the person, if the dog in question is what I really want.I'm definitely not saying that I don't trust the test, or I wouldn't use it. But, I want to know what could be behind that dog that may cause a problem.
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I can tell you that I am rethinking many dogs that in the past I would not have given the time of day to for breeding.
Same here! This new test has opened up a whole list of stud prospects that I would have never considered prior.
It is also important to understand that an indeterminate results is not caused by the test not functioning it was actually designed in such a way that the researchers would be able to tell if the markers may have broken away from the gene.
Lisa is correct. Indeterminate results are due to a particular dog's genes not being completely readable and NOT due to the test itself.
