Sick Dog Question– help, please?!

[ownedbyspencer]

@eeeefarm:

How are Spencer's teeth? I have found as my dogs get old they sometimes are uncomfortable in their mouths, and not so anxious to eat. Obviously he will be fussy about his mouth anyway, given his recent problem, but is there any chance he has teeth bothering him as well?

Yes, I think that was part of the problem. Spencer's teeth weren't awful, but I hadn't wanted to put him under for a cleaning for over a year, because of his age and his kidneys. He had a complete dental when the vet extracted the tooth, so now the teeth that remain are pearly white! I have been using the C.E.T. rinse and brushing his teeth for years, but I will be extra vigilant now. Hopefully, that will keep them clean and prevent any more bacterial infections. Unfortunately, the Plaque-Off doesn't seem to work for us at all.

[tanza]

@ownedbyspencer:

Yes, I think that was part of the problem. Spencer's teeth weren't awful, but I hadn't wanted to put him under for a cleaning for over a year, because of his age and his kidneys. He had a complete dental when the vet extracted the tooth, so now the teeth that remain are pearly white! I have been using the C.E.T. rinse and brushing his teeth for years, but I will be extra vigilant now. Hopefully, that will keep them clean and prevent any more bacterial infections. Unfortunately, the Plaque-Off doesn't seem to work for us at all.

Sometimes when they get to be elders, not much works, especially if they are ill. Or at least that is what I have found. If their immune system is compromised I believe that it effects all different parts of their "inner workings" and being a Fanconi dog, certainly his would be compromised. All you can do is the best you can to keep him as happy as possible. And at his age and being a Fanconi dog, being a "slave" to find things he will eat in my opinion is just being a wonderful Basenji Mom…. I know with my elders I would make anything they would or might eat!

[dcmclcm4]

I feed Missy a mixture of half Evo Red Meat Small Bites and half another meat protein dry usually lamb or venison which has less protein and she also gets 2 tablespoons of canned dog food-meat based. She is still pretty active outside except when the weather is not good. She runs out with the other dogs to chase animals.

Jennifer

[ownedbyspencer]

@tanza:

Sometimes when they get to be elders, not much works, especially if they are ill. Or at least that is what I have found. If their immune system is compromised I believe that it effects all different parts of their "inner workings" and being a Fanconi dog, certainly his would be compromised. All you can do is the best you can to keep him as happy as possible. And at his age and being a Fanconi dog, being a "slave" to find things he will eat in my opinion is just being a wonderful Basenji Mom…. I know with my elders I would make anything they would or might eat!

Yes, it's all about trying to keep them as happy and as healthy as possible for as long as possible! We had a very close call, but I sense that Spencer wants to go on for a while longer. As long as I feel that, I'll do what I can to help him. We're experimenting with all sorts of food (no bison yet!) and seeing what sticks. Who knew the little guy was such a food snob?!

[ownedbyspencer]

@dcmclcm4:

I feed Missy a mixture of half Evo Red Meat Small Bites and half another meat protein dry usually lamb or venison which has less protein and she also gets 2 tablespoons of canned dog food-meat based. She is still pretty active outside except when the weather is not good. She runs out with the other dogs to chase animals.

I'm always glad to hear that Missy is still doing well! I'll have to check into venison– I don't recall seeing that. And it's great that she's still a good eater. Spencer started getting really finicky when he was 13, and I've had a problem with him eating dry ever since. Thanks for sharing the info about Missy's food!

[tanza]

For one of my elders (no Fanconi, but was in kidney failure) for a while she really liked Shrip sauteed in a little butter and mixed with scrambled eggs.

[ownedbyspencer]

Spencer likes shrimp, too– I gave him shrimp and rice last night. I've never mixed it with scrambled eggs (which he also likes), but I'll give it a try! I'm also going to make bison burgers on the grill next week. Spencer's finickiness is certainly opening up new food horizons for us both!

[eeeefarm]

At the very end, with my one girl (just short of 16 years when we had to let her go), she only wanted tomatoes. She became quite vegetarian in her desires. Green peppers were another thing she would crave. It became very difficult to convince her to try anything else.

[ownedbyspencer]

My parents had a B who loved tomatoes! They had a little vegetable garden out back and whenever they couldn't find him, that's where he'd be– raiding the tomatoes. He didn't go for green peppers, though. I've never heard of that!

So I guess it's common for elder Bs to lose their appetite? Spencer just doesn't seem that interested in food-- any food. And if he eats it one day, he won't touch it the next. Forget leftovers for this guy! I'm not a picky eater at all, and I don't eat a lot of meat, so this is very challenging. I'm concerned because Spencer doesn't seem to be gaining any weight back. His tongue and throat have healed, his teeth are good, but he still picks at his food. He won't touch dog food, and if I mix it in with the good stuff, he won't eat any of it. I'm going to take him to the vet's and put him on the big scale tomorrow and see if he's put on any weight. Sadly, I suspect it's very little.

[eeeefarm]

If his teeth and mouth are bothering him, obviously soft food is going to be more appealing. Have you ever tried dehydrated? I feed NRG and have for years. Palatable, and you can mix enough water in and let it stand so it is quite soft and "lapable" . Otherwise, I have found you have to keep trying different things to keep them interested. I went through a lot of different canned foods when my girl was aging. It became more important to get her to eat anything, rather than the food quality, since she was so fussy! (a little cat food mixed in might perk his appetite)

[ownedbyspencer]

His teeth should be fine. He had a full dental, and the only bad tooth was extracted. His sores have healed. He's still on antibiotics, so I'm hoping that might be it. He has another week of those. It's almost like he is anorexic– just turned off by food. He ate a little at first, because he was so starved, but now it's so hard to get him to eat. I'll try the NRG. You just never know what they'll spark to!

Oddly enough, Spencer doesn't lap at food, anymore. He's back to lapping at the water bowl-- no problem-- but he bites at his food with his teeth. He won't take anything if he has to use his tongue to get it. So I have to roll his food in little meatballs that he can grab. It's odd. Maybe he still has some residual mouth pain, but the vet said he shouldn't. His mouth has healed very well.

[eeeefarm]

I'd be wondering if he is afraid to lap, since it hurt before. Animals often build an association, "I do this, it hurts, so now I won't do it anymore." I've seen it with horses too. They expect something to hurt so they avoid it even after the problem has been solved. It may take time before he is convinced that his mouth isn't going to hurt him when he eats…..

[Terry]

And, yes, frequently the antibiotics do suppress the appetite. I would increase his amino fuel a bit while he's recovering. Is Spencer in renal failure? Is he on the regular protocol or the hybrid? If he's on the regular and needs the higher protein, I have used ground beef mixed with rice - my kids don't like brown rice, unfortunately, but they do usually like white rice. Chicken too, but with the Fanconi, mammal meats are better. If you know any hunters, venison is a good choice too!

Terry

[tanza]

You might want to ask your Vet for an appetite stimulant for him for a while and see if that helps.

[agilebasenji]

@tanza:

You might want to ask your Vet for an appetite stimulant for him for a while and see if that helps.

seems like debradownsouth had one of her dogs on something. Might want to ask her what she used.

[tanza]

@agilebasenji:

seems like debradownsouth had one of her dogs on something. Might want to ask her what she used.

I had Mickii on that, but it was years ago. I would have to go back though all my stuff to try and find the name. It was a pill, that I do remember

[ownedbyspencer]

I, too, have wondered if Spencer isn't having a negative association with his tongue lapping food, since it was clearly so painful before. That or the antibiotics possibly suppressing his appetite. He ate more today– beef stew, which he hasn't had in ages. Still, he bit at it with his teeth, though he did lick the bowl clean at the end. It took him a while to decide to do it, though. He would circle back and ponder, circle back and ponder, then finally he took a tentative lick, then finished it off. So maybe he'll go for it tomorrow!

Terry, Spencer is not in renal failure-- his BUN and CREA are quite good-- and Dr. Gonto recommended switching him to the hybrid protocol four years ago after he had a seizure. He gets a little higher protein (good proteins) than the typical hybrid protocol, so he's actually a hybrid hybrid! I keep hearing about venison, so I'm really going to have to check that out. Right now, we stick to chicken breast, lean beef, fish and eggs (mostly egg whites), mixed with veggies, rice, the occasional cheese and senior kibble. I try to mix it up, but seemingly not enough.

The vet gave Spencer a steroid for an appetite stimulant, but it didn't do any good, so we stopped that. When he's off the antibiotics next week, I'll know if that's dulling his appetite or if he's just a picky, picky boy.

[ownedbyspencer]

Do you think it was a steroid or was it a supplement? I have heard that SAMe and a few other pills are natural appetite stimulants. I'll have to look into that a little more.

[tanza]

@ownedbyspencer:

Do you think it was a steroid or was it a supplement? I have heard that SAMe and a few other pills are natural appetite stimulants. I'll have to look into that a little more.

I am pretty sure it was a steroid, but I am searching for the name…. It was NOT a supplement, that I do know. It was a pill and given like 1/4 every 12 hours, if I remember right. It might be the same used on humans. I would for sure ask your Vet about it.

[MacPack]

Glad Spencer licked the bowl, hopefully getting some GOOD associations for his tongue! Beef stew with yummy gravy sounds great.