I am not up to date on current rabies vaccines for dogs, but I know that in the past there was more than one formulation, as my next door neighbour's dog had an anaphylactic reaction when vaccinated and the vet made a note to use a different formulation for the next annual shot. In future the dog had no difficulties. There are known side effects to most vaccines. Aggression is not one I am familiar with, however, with rabies vaccination in countries that require it there isn't much choice. It would not be my first thought with an 18 month old dog showing aggression. Especially a Basenji objecting to being moved from a comfortable place.
Need Home for Basenji
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I have to speak up for BRAT and folks who do eval's.
We can only go on what the owners tell us, sometimes the totally tell us what a bad dog they have, to makes them feel better for giving the dog to rescue, sometimes they don't tell us anything bacause they want rescue to take a dog who is not great.
Often these reported bad dogs are wonderful…sometimes these reported great dogs aren't.
All we can do is eval the dog on the day the appt is set up and work to find a foster home.
If we have a foster home, often behaviors not seen will come up, and we know what type of family this dog should go to.
IF we don't have a foster home, we try to find the best "next" home for the dog. Telling them what was reported to us, and what the eval showed.
I am sorry this dog didn't work out for you.I do not hold BRAT responsible. I only wish that I had known what I know now before I fell in love with my dog. It's a very unfortunate situation all around. I'm still working on trying to find other options. I've sent an email to Mike Swan requesting advice…not from a rehoming standpoint, but more on the advice level and in an effort to find some contacts of people who may be able to help me. Most people think it's hopeless, but they aren't Tuckers dad and they don't love him like I do - so they can't possibly understand what I'm going through right now.
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I have to tell you, no one goes into rescue to put dogs to sleep. We do rescue because we love dogs. That being said, before BRAT came around, I did basenji rescue. I would take the dogs into my house who were biters and no one else could take. Some we found we could live with, some we found, were so damaged, they scared my husband and myself. I made the hard decision not to move those dogs on, but give them peace.
I put them to sleep. Was it hard, yes, did I cry, yes, do I feel guilty NOPE. I did the right thing for a damaged dog. Pat wasn't being mean to you. This boy is damaged.
Maybe you can get Best Friends to take him in. Otherwise, IMO, your out of options.
I am not trying to be mean…I HAVE been there. I have made the tough decision. I know, the dogs I put down are at peace and will not hurt anyone else. I can sleep at night.
Hugs my unmet friend. I am very, very sorry you are where you are with this boy. You sure have done all the right things. Sometimes the dogs are just to damaged. -
What a hard scenario, Im very sorry.
What are the laws like in your area? I know here once a dog bite is reported, even if you give the dog away etc, you are still liable for any further dog bites/attacks that occur. IMO any human aggressive dog should be put to sleep, it is too much of a liability for the people around and it means that something isnt right with the dog and they would be better off at the bridge.
Good luck -
Yes, this family is a loving family…they have done all the right things. Sigh. it just makes this all the harder.
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We have yet to be officially reported to any agency. The most recent and most severe bite brought us close due to a hospital visit. We're in a very unusual predicament and have recently had to take in a distant cloudily related great aunt who suffers mild dimensia, is a severe alcoholic and smokes non-stop (she burned her house, which is why she is with us). It's hard to imagine something like taking her under our wing and taking care of her resulted in this situation (although the situation would most likely have occurred at some point anyway). She loves Tucker also, but he takes a while to warm up to people. Her being here lends to irresponsibility regarding not touching the dog, she simply can't stay away from him and he has bitten her twice. She's been told, but it doesn't sink it. She's too far gone. I'm sure her erratic behavior doesn't help things as she stumbles around our place all day drunk, but it's led to where we are today, although I don't blame her at all. It has just been the straw the broke the camel's back, so to speak. He bit her the first time and we made a huge deal about it. So this time she didn't tell us he had bitten her. She's fragile and the bite was really bad. We saw it a day too late and infection had already started. Therefore, she had to be checked into the hospital for an antibiotic drip and stayed overnight. However, we still managed to avoid being reported. I guess hospitals aren't terribly concerned with the dog and are moreso focused on the patients. We were only asked about his shots and if they were up to date. I'm sure if he bites again and someone important catches wind, we'd be thrown to the wolves if it ended up in court with me knowing his history and keeping him.
I have made some progress today on options. I randomly called a CDTI in VA who knows a guy in Florida who is a personal friend of Cesar milan. I left the guy in FL a message and am awaiting a return call. I would be happy if Tucker ended up in CA living with Cesar or somewhere recommended by him. Knowing he was able to live the rest of his life in peace would mean a lot of me. I would never forgive myself if I didn't try everything I could try. Even what I've done is not enough. Tucker was damaged at some point in his life and I made the commitment to being the person he would die with…a natural death. It looks like I'm going to be unable to do that, but hopefully I can, at the very least, give him the opportunity to live. I value life too much to give up on him. I'll never give up on him.
My father, before I was born, almost punched out a neighbor for watching my mom and dad's basenji, "Bongo" die. He jumped over a railing on a porch and hung himself. The neighbor saw it and didn't do anything about it. My mother became pregnant with my brother and said that was the only thing that saved her from severe depression.
When I was 14, our basenji, "BJ" was hit by a car. She was old and started doing dumb things like chasing cars. She lost her chase with a care one day. My mom worked out out of our home and knew the Fed Ex driver. The Fed Ex lady saw BJ on the side of the road and delivered "BJ" to our doorstep on a padded shipping pack and left us a sweet note of condolence. I cried for two days. After my parents divorce, it was the 2nd most traumatic experience of my life.
When I was months from college, our basenji, "Bonnie", was neglected due to my brother having already left for college halfway across the country, my mom working long hours and me being in school all day. She lived in a pen with doghouse out in the backyard. We decided we were unfit parents and found her a nice family on a farm to be her forever home. We never followed up regarding her life. My mom and I still to this day talk about her and how awful we were to her and often wonder if she lived well. It makes me sick to think about her.
Tucker is MY basenji. He represents my first true shot at independance and responsibility. Tucker got me out of the social scene and into a more responsible lifestyle. I've never missed a walk. I never missed a feeding, or a pill or an application of Advantix. He will even get into the tub for a bath when I ask because he trusts me. I've never left him alone too long aside from when I had him in a kennel over a weekend and my stepfather died before I could get home to him. He ended up in the kennel for 8 days and I still haven't forgiven myself even though the situation justifies itself. I got married while I had Tucker. Tucker lived in the first home I've owned. Tucker means the world to me. My wive even had a portrait done of him and gave it to me for my birthday a year or so ago. It's hanging on my wall next to where I sit now. He gives me joy that only another dog owner can understand (all of you, I'd imagine). He understands when I'm upset. It's always been ME in his eyes. I'm the only one he respects and covets. I'm the one he's protecting. Everyone else has let him down. I feel like I'm the only one Tucker will ever trust. I simply can't give up.
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Sigh, I know. Our house was less busy, and we were able to keep our Spike the wonder dog, who bit both Lou and I..we learned to read his signs and keep him under the bite threshold. As we had no kids, we would just put him in our bedroom when we had company. We were lucky enough to manage him and we both cried when he passed.
He is beloved to this day.
I can't tell you how I admire your love for this dog. I wish is was possible for him to stay with you… -
It is between a rock and a hard place that you find yourself with Tucker…. but know if there are no other options... that the kindest thing that you can do is let him go and help him over the Rainbow Bridge... he knows that you love him... and he has been given a great life for the time that you have had him... he will go with those thoughts and memories .... he will not know a strange place, people that will not know him, not understand him as you have, try to change him... you, if necessary would be doing the greatest act of kindness for him... he will peacefully pass over the rainbow bridge and join those that have gone before him...
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I agree with Pat. It would be kinder for your dog, harder for you, to put him to sleep.
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Oh boy, I am close to tears after reading this. I remember when my sis made a hard decision to have her chow put down. My brother in law came home from work with a co-worker (female) for supper before going to a work convention. Baron gave no warning and just went for the lady's forearm when she came through the front door. He broke skin. As it turned out it was the second time he had bitten someone. The decision was incredibly hard for them. After Baron was sent to run freely, my husband mentioned to my sister that Baron had bit him once when he was patting Baron. I know that helped my sister and her husband realize that they had made the best decision for their unique situation. All situations are unique. There are a lot of things to weigh before making such an important decision. IF Cesar Millan and his people are willing to work with Tucker, that might be a solution. Has Cesar ever had a basenji at his dog psychology center. That alone might be of interest to him, though I am pretty sure if a new dog caused an unbalanced state in his pack, that he probably wouldn't go for it. I guess you just hope that there is hope for Tucker. I feel for you and all you are going through. You have obviously been a very caring dog owner.
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I am not close to tears, but in tears. I have been following this thread since it was first posted.
Hoping, oh hoping, for the perfect answer. Not responding because it has hit close to home and sometimes someone else's opinion doesn't mean anything to me. So sorry a decision has to be made.
I have a 2 year old male BRAT rescue. Sharron, the rescue angel, got him to me. He has bit my Husband, "guarding" me. Sharron has given us the advice of a rescue "expert" and we are working through our issues. He wasn't aggressive when we adopted him and I don't believe he had bit his first Mom. He came from a home with a single woman & 2 big dogs, to a home with a 7 year old adult female B, me & my husband. He absolutely LOVES my husband, except when I come home. Then, it's all about me.
Does Hunter still "guard" me, yes. Has he bit my Husband in the last week, yes. Do we both love this little 18 lb BRAT boy with all our hearts, YES! Do I believe he can be "cured"? Honestly I don't know. We don't have kids so only have ourselves to "worry" about. It would be easier on me to get rid of my Husband!! No more guarding issues!!
My heart feels so heavy for you & Tucker (very cool name, by the way!). After reading your basenji history & Sharron's Wonder dog, I am torn up with sadness.
I pray for Tucker, pray that he tells you what he needs you to do. I will give my BRAT mess a huge hug tonight and some extra kisses. He is so precious and really is only doing what he feels he needs to do. I will love him forever for that…I really do believe Tucker will tell you what you need to do, if you just ask him.
Whatever you have to do, I am behind you 100%! Your love for your dog shines through in everything you say.
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TBH and I may be the unpopular opinion here, but reading your post, it sounds an awful lot like you are trying to make up for the past, and as you say he represents your first shot at independence and responsability. This is a part of that responsability. You have tried, you have not given up on him. 2 well respected behaviourists have evaluated him and given you the same conclusion. IMO that would be the deciding factor.
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I just had to send hugs to everyone who posted. Tuckers owner, and your family most of all.
You do have our prayers. Let us know how it goes..we do want to help. -
If I have to have him put down, ultimately, I don't think I can do it. I had terrible dreams last night with Tucker replacing Marley in the final scene in Marley and Me. I was torn apart and woke up with a soaked pillow. Is it better to have someone else do it? Will I resent them for doing it if they do? Will BRAT evaluate him and make the final decision and tell me when the deed is done? I just don't know what to do. Emotions can be wonderful, but in this case I wish I was a stronger man. But I am simply not. Tucker is the only 'son' I currently have. I'm not her to pull at heart strings, I'm just looking for the right answer. My wife has been trying to help me and every professional she's contacted on my behalf has agreed Tucker should be put down.
If you could witness how he looks at me, how he trusts and respects me…how he seeks me out and whines when I leave him even to take the trash out...you might see it differently. I'm all he really has. Perhaps I'm all he's ever had. I just don't think I can personally end his life under any circumstances.
This is an email my wife forwarded to me this morning, resulting from her efforts to help:
"Wayne,
This is a most difficult and sad situation and my heart breaks for your friends. Some dogs have a biogenetic predisposition towards aggression and truly there is little that can be safely and humanely done when running against the genetic grain. I have not found Basenji's to be overly represented for aggression and do not subscribe to "breed specific aggression tendencies". That said, there are families or lines of certain dogs where this can occur with some degree of prediction. Each dog stands alone. Dr. Kathryn Meyer is a highly respected professional and I can't think of anybody other than Texas' A&N Dr. Lore Haug also a certified veterinary behaviorist, who is in as high a standing. Dr. Karen Overall used to be at University of Pa. and she is an esteemed certified veterinary behaviorist but I'm not sure where she is right now and I seriously doubt she would have a differing recommendation than Dr. Meyer. Same of Dr. Haug.
I am a Certified Dog Behavior Consultant and sometimes refer out and seek assistance from folks like Dr. Meyer, Dr. Haug and Dr. Overall. Anything that has to do with "quiet submission" or other dominance based archaic unscientific methods such as CM are definitely not recommended. It is a fact, although a difficult one, that not every dog has the genetic makeup, brain chemistry, personality or temperament (whatever you want to call it) to live appropriately and safely with humans as a companion animal. As sad as this seems, it would be much worse for your friends if their dog were to seriously injure a person. Not only will they have to live with the knowledge they chose to keep a dangerous dog and subjected innocent people to an aggressive attack, but if/when this happens, all choices will be made by animal control who will quarantine him in a municipal shelter and then euthanize him . A more loving and kinder resolution would be for this dogs' people who he knows and loves to take him themselves to their veterinarian where his departure to the Bridge will be peaceful and he feels loved. Dogs do not contemplate nor fear death. My thoughts and heart go out to your friends. Please let me know what happens.
Best wishes,
Katherine Smith"
Once again, I find myself unable to function because I won't accept this situation...
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Oh, this is soooo hard. It is relatively easy for a professional who has seen A LOT of dogs with problems tell a client that the best idea is to euthanize the dog…and it is much harder when you are emotionally invested in the people and the dogs...and almost impossible when it is your own dog.
You have to take responsibility for Tucker...either you find a way to keep him safe in your possession...or you go with him to be euthanized. I am sorry, I know that sounds unbearable..but as you said he loves and trusts you, and as Ms. Smith said, dogs don't contemplate death..all he knows is that you are with him.
If you simply cannot end his life (and I can understand that) you must keep him away from strangers...period. And be aware that he still might bite you or your wife...and confront the fact that may limit your ability to start a family (if that is what you wish) until the situation changes with Tucker. Could you find somewhere else for the aunt to live? It sounds like she would qualify for help and social services...it doesn't sound safe or healthy for anyone for her to live with you. But, that is just one woman's opinion
Tucker could be made to be separated when you have friends over, etc...it may be preferable to you (and him) than no life at all.But I think the bottom line is that you are his human, and it isn't likely that you will find a place for him to live out his life where he will be safe and loved, that isn't with you.
And, I just want to add...it isn't applicable in this situation....but for those that are contemplating adding a puppy to their household...this is just one more reason to buy from a breeder that will take your dog back for WHATEVER reason, at ANY time in the dog's life. In this situation the breeder could take the dog back, try to rehabilitate him, and if that was unsuccessful, do the painful job of taking him to cross the bridge...one of the sad realities of being a breeder also...
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TuckerVA,
I know it is impossible to know how you feel because my situation was a different from yours, but I do know what it is like to love a dog at a level most people cannot understand.
I had to make the painful decision to send my beloved companion Alex to the Rainbow Bridge 2 years ago. Mentally and physically he had deteriorated to the point where he had very little quality of life. However, when he looked up at me with those sad eyes it made it so hard to do what I knew was best for him. I know in my case I was selfish and put the decision off for several weeks longer than I should have.
One thing that made the process easier was I had someone come out to the house to do the actual euthanasia. I was able to hold Alex during the process so he was calm and relaxed, and we got to spend our final moments together. I cried for days afterward, but looking back I know I did the best thing for him. Sometimes doing the best thing for your pet isn't necessarily the best thing for you at the time. However, when you look back at it you'll know you made the right decision.
My prayers are with you during this difficult time. It really takes someone who has gone through this themselves to know the feelings you are experiencing. Whatever the outcome is, my thoughts are with you and Tucker.
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It is obvious that you are going through an emotional hell right now. I feel for you, truly I do, but your emotions have clouded your common sense.
You said:
"If you could witness how he looks at me, how he trusts and respects me…how he seeks me out and whines when I leave him even to take the trash out...you might see it differently. I'm all he really has. Perhaps I'm all he's ever had. I just don't think I can personally end his life under any circumstances."Please re-read what you wrote. Do you honestly feel this dog will live a "happy happy joy joy" life somewhere else? Do you honestly think he is going to become emotionally stable and stop biting people when he is thrust into a different environment with strangers? Look inside your heart. You know what the true answers are.
"I'm not her to pull at heart strings, I'm just looking for the right answer."
Multiple professionals have evaluated the dog and have concluded the dog is a danger. One person ended up in the hospital from one of his bites. IMO, there is only one solution.
I have had to euthanize many animals over the years (predominantly elderly animals) and while the emotional turmoil is difficult for the human, the process itself is very easy for the animal. It truly is a painless and peaceful ending.
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Was he at a BRAT foster before coming to you? If so, I would contact the foster and see if he had these problems there?
Have you had a complete thyroid test done? What about blood tests? Have all the tests been normal?
Does he live with other animals? Is he aggressive to them or dogs he meets when you are walking him?
I would contact Best Friends to see if they could possible help him.
If you have exhausted all your options helping him then you should euthanize him since has biten and will probably bite in the future.
I have had to euthanize some Bs in my own rescue that were aggressive. I hated to do it at the time but now looking back it was the right decision.
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Was he at a BRAT foster before coming to you? If so, I would contact the foster and see if he had these problems there?
Have you had a complete thyroid test done? What about blood tests? Have all the tests been normal?
I agree about the testing. Always check for something physical first to see if anything is going on especially the thyroid.
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Was he at a BRAT foster before coming to you? If so, I would contact the foster and see if he had these problems there?
Have you had a complete thyroid test done? What about blood tests? Have all the tests been normal?
Does he live with other animals? Is he aggressive to them or dogs he meets when you are walking him?
I would contact Best Friends to see if they could possible help him.
I think he came straight out of the home. I think Sharron would know since she handles MA, but I'm not positive. Thyroid panel was normal. Chemical panel was normal. We have one other dog in the house, and they tolerate each other. No major fights and Tucker isn't the one that starts them more than half the time. He does exhibit aggression towards dogs while leashed, but when he's at the park, he doesn't at all unless challenged. I looked at Best Friends today.
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I'm so sorry you're going through this. We lost our own tri boy Tucker last October to liver complications at age 11, and I'm sure your boy is as dear to you as ours was. My one regret was that we did not return to the vets in time to be with him as his passed - his condition went downhill very quickly and he slipped away before we could get back to say goodbye to him.
