Peeing in the crate

[Elscodobermann]

@pennypen:

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You may not agree with crating for 8 hours but when both people work full time thats what happens. QUOTE]

Tough. if people work full time during the day and want a basenji - it doesnt automatically mean they should have one. Both me & my partner work full time but we would not have dogs if we didnt have the facilities to ensure they can exercise and relieve themselves during the day if they have to.

Sure some basenjis cope with it but i dont like the idea that your little girl is somehow doing something wrong by peeing in her crate when she is left in for 8 hours at a time. If you have an enclosed yard couldnt you put up a kennel and a run outside for her - that way she can be safe and secure, but can also have a pee or a poop if she needs to?

Or if thats not an option what about a dog walker?

[pennypen]

@Elscodobermann:

@pennypen:

–------------------------------------
You may not agree with crating for 8 hours but when both people work full time thats what happens. QUOTE]

Tough. if people work full time during the day and want a basenji - it doesnt automatically mean they should have one. Both me & my partner work full time but we would not have dogs if we didnt have the facilities to ensure they can exercise and relieve themselves during the day if they have to.

Sure some basenjis cope with it but i dont like the idea that your little girl is somehow doing something wrong by peeing in her crate when she is left in for 8 hours at a time. If you have an enclosed yard couldnt you put up a kennel and a run outside for her - that way she can be safe and secure, but can also have a pee or a poop if she needs to?

Or if thats not an option what about a dog walker?

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Crating a dog is an oppion not a right or wrong. I never agreed with crating before I got her. But considering every basenji training site says to crate your dog when gone I dont see how I am the bad guy.

I dont trust her outside to not dig under the fence to get out considering she tried to dig through the carpet and flooring in our apartment when we tried leaving her uncrated.
I care to much about her to NOT crate her because if i left her out in the yard and she got out and got hit by a car i would never forgive myself.
Also I did state, if you read any of my previous responses that we try and come home for lunch when we can.
I am not saying she is bad because she does it. I never scold her when i come home and find she has done it. I wrote this because I don't feel it is a matter of not being able to hold her bladder because she has gone 8 hours with going in the crate many times and really wanted some helpful suggestion. Your negativity is anything but helpful and just shows ignorance to any situation but your own. I don't mean to be rude but that is how you come across to me.

[Elscodobermann]

Well for someone who says they dont mean to be rude you have had a pretty good shot at it.

This is an open forum with lots of opinions expressed on different subjects - to say i dont care about any other sitation other than my own is offensive.

I care for the welfare of all dogs. If i express an opinion that perhaps its not the dogs fault that a situation is occurring, that doesnt mean i am wrong, or being rude. Its an opinion based on over 25 years of owning, showing and breeding dogs.

But it is just an opinion, its up to you to listen or not.

i didnt suggest leaving your dog in the yard unsecured. if you lay paving slabs in an area, put up a run on it with a kennel - she would be safe, couldnt dig out, and could relieve herself if she needs to. Thats what i have done, and i hope if you try it that it works for you too.

i am not against using crates - i use them too and agree they are a great way of making sure your basenji (and your posessions) are safe when you cant keep an eye on them. But i dont agree with the notion (and this isnt aimed solely at you, because i know lots of our American basenji folk crate all day) that we should expect our dogs to be happy and clean for 8 hours in a crate - some can, some cant.

What i was hoping to put across was that if its not working for your girl, perhaps you should rethink how/where she spends her daytime. I have friends who use a doggy daycare centre, other friends who use dog walkers - all in the same situation as you but have different ways of dealing with it.

[pennypen]

@Elscodobermann:

Well for someone who says they dont mean to be rude you have had a pretty good shot at it.

This is an open forum with lots of opinions expressed on different subjects - to say i dont care about any other sitation other than my own is offensive.

I care for the welfare of all dogs. If i express an opinion that perhaps its not the dogs fault that a situation is occurring, that doesnt mean i am wrong, or being rude. Its an opinion based on over 25 years of owning, showing and breeding dogs. But just an opinion, its up to you to listen or not.

i didnt suggest leaving your dog in the yard unsecured. if you lay paving slabs in an area, put up a run on it with a kennel - she would be safe, couldnt dig out, and could relieve herself if she needs to. Thats what i have done, and i hope if you try it that it works for you too.

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I never said you didnt care i said you you don't seem to having any understanding of different living situations. And many many dog owners crate their dogs while at work. You obviously care and i never indicated you didn't
I appreciate any feed back but when i am acused of being a bad caregiver to my dog i take offense to it because i was raised with English Goldens which my mother bred.
I think leaving my dog outside in the cold or extreem heat (i live in Texas) is more cruel. Believe me if i had any choice to not crate her I would but she is safer in the crate. Since getting Penny I have had to become an extreemly open minded person being as she is different from any other breed I have owned. But i also know that our golden where left inside our house for 8 hours and never ever had accidents. I am concered not mad … a little frustrated but definitly not mad.
Again i didnt mean to offend i was just trying to tell you how you came across. I do appreciate any advice given whether i agree with it or not.
Also we just bought a house and are paying for a wedding so the funds to take her to doggie care 5 days a week (which would be nice) just can not be done.

[westcoastflea1]

oh boy i know im going to get slammed on this but….

if day care is not an option
and a dog walker is not an option
and an outside pen that is dog proof is not an option
and if your dog is so stressed at being away from you that she pees and poops and destroys your house
so that the only option you have is to keep her in a crate 8 hours a day which clearly makes her very very unhappy
then....
maybe you should call brat and arrange for them to find your dog a new home

a home where someone is at home most of the time or has the ability financially or otherwise to give your b what she needs

brat can find the perfect home for your b where she will have her needs met and be happy

you may not want to give her up but what is more important your happiness or your bs happiness?

right now it sounds like she is miserable most of the time
is that what you want for her?

once she is gone you can do some research and find a dog that will be fine when left alone 8 hours a day perhaps one of the dogs you mentioned in an earlier posts

[listeme]

What on earth? Is it a slow saturday or something?

Peeing in the crate has solutions. Workday crating has solutions. You love the dog, the dog loves you guys; this is not a "give up the dog" situation at all.

The poster is doing a lot of things to attempt to mitigate the crating unhappiness, and the pup is still young. I think she's on the right track!

[pennypen]

wow i am so upset and dissappointed in someone of the people on here.
She is 1 people! AND i am a good owner and do NOT abuse my pet which is basically how some of you are acting. This last post has litterally made me cry and i feel that is aweful when i came on here for help.

She doesnt pee IN the crate she pees outside it so i really thinks it is behavioral.

I honestly can;t believe there are so many idiots on here that don't understand issues like this. And I appologize for those who have given me helpful input on here.

My breeder actually told me a was silly when I had told her we use to come home twice during our work day. They should be crated and there is nothing wrong with it. I told her about the things that were said on here and she was appauled. We keep in contact and she knows Penny went to a good home. I NEVER board her she always goes to my breeder or to my friend who has 2 whippets and we never ever leave her alone all day or anything like that.

She is NOT unhappy most of the time she loves us and loves to play and run and cuddle and just be around us. I think most basenji owns have FT jobs and have to leave their senjis and alot of them crate them I am not the only one BY FAR.
People constantly come up to us at the park and are amazed by how well behaved and friendly she is. She never shies away from people and wants you to pick her up and love her.
I have made sure to socialize since i got her and make sure to give her the exercise she needs. We have a 3200 sq/ft, it's not like she doesnt have room, plus a back yard to frolic in. We take her on walk around our neighbor hood and that park that is 2 blocks away.

WHY i am defending myself to you i have no idea.
Miserable most of the time???? …. i mean do people even READ these posts or just pick out things in them and go off on a rant when you have NO clue what you are talking about.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[westcoastflea1]

it sounds to me like the owner of this basenji has no workable options when it comes to making her basenji happy while she works

she has been given options and she has rejected all of them as not working for her situation, which is fine

however the dog is clearly unhappy being left alone for 8 hours a day

solving the issue of the dog peeing in her crate DOESNT solve the REAL issue which is that this dog IS NOT happy being left alone crated or uncrated 8 hours a day

can you blame her?

if they really LOVE the dog they will figure out a way to keep their dog from being isolated or kept in a crate 8 hours a day

and if they cant find a solution then out of LOVE they should find a home for their dog that meets its needs

and yes im sure there are many people here who crate their basenjis 8 hours a day 5 days a week and maybe their bs are alright with that, but this one clearly isnt

[pennypen]

@listeme:

what on earth? Is it a slow saturday or something?

Peeing in the crate has solutions. Workday crating has solutions. You love the dog, the dog loves you guys; this is not a "give up the dog" situation at all.

The poster is doing a lot of things to attempt to mitigate the crating unhappiness, and the pup is still young. I think she's on the right track!

thank you!!!!!!!!

[westcoastflea1]

this has absolutely nothing to do with whether you love your basenji or are a good pet owner

im sure you do and you are

you wrote saying that when your basenji is left alone she tears apart the house
you also said that she doesnt like being crated, was peeing while in the crate and cries all the time when left alone

if you are working 8 hours a day 5 days a week then it seems to me that that is alot of time for your b to be unhappy

is it your fault? NO everyone has to work but…

there were solutions given to help your b be happier when left alone but you said you were unable to use any of them

so where does that leave your dog?

isolated, in a crate unhappy 8 hours a day 5 days a week, happy and fulfilled the rest of the time

again this has nothing to do with how much you love her and what a good dog owner you are, you have to work that is a fact of life

but it seems that trying to stop the peeing is just covering up the bigger issue which is that she is unhappy being left alone so much of the time

so if nothing else i hope my suggestion that your b might be happier with a family that could give her more then 8 hours a day in a crate has made you realize that if she is unhappy in her crate for 8 hours a day you NEED to do something about it

[sonnyboy]

Hi there! don't let the opinion of a few get to you..there are a lot of great people on here who will be helpful and supportive to you with useful suggestions…I'm single and own a great basenji boy named Sonny. I have to work for a living and Sonny does spend the day while I'm at work home alone. While I don't have to crate him because he is not destructive it's still much like your situation. Which is just a normal part of life My boy is still very happy and lives a great life even though he's spends some alone time while I'm at work. He's well loved and cared for just like your girl. I think its great that your seeking advice and doing your best to find a solution to her troubles in the crate.
For someone to suggest that your B would be better off rehomed is just ridiculous. would the same be said of my B just because I also don't have the extra money to spend on doggie day care?! I provide the best for him and love him more then anyone else ever could. And I think you're doing the same by trying to find a way to fix the crate problem you have..Hang in there....you'll find the right answer

[renaultf1]

@westcoastflea1:

so if nothing else i hope my suggestion that your b might be happier with a family that could give her more then 8 hours a day in a crate has made you realize that if she is unhappy in her crate for 8 hours a day you NEED to do something about it

OMG, give it a break. I 100% agree with listme - the OP came on here looking for advice and wants to do something about it - did you not read her posts.

I find it interesting that you are chastising this person (who clearly wants to keep her dog and wants to work thru the problem) when you do rescue. You have been on here recently when you've had fosters for less than a week and said you were frustrated and needed advice. Even though some of us have thought it was unreasonable to expect ideal behaviour in a week's time, we've offered advice to you. So step back and think before you post.

[Janneke]

It's a bit harsh to tell someone you don't know, who's trying to be good for her dog, to find a new home for it.. There are other solutions..

But I do agree with some points.. keeping a dog crated 8+ hours/day is 'not done' for me. If people work full time and they can't find another solution then crating their dog(s), they shouldn't buy a dog. Like Elscodobermann said: it's not a right, it's a privilege.. Like I said before, I very often read on this forum that people keep their dogs in crates during the day, sometimes even 10 to 12 hours! And the excuse that 'they aren't crated at night' just doesn't work for me.. they are sleeping at night… not trotting around...

If I were you, and I couldn't find a way to solve the 8 hour crating, I would try to find a new home for my B.. So I do understand westcoastflea1.. But I think there are some ways to solve it.. Maybe you can find a daycare? Or a dogsitter? If not: get up as early as possible and walk her, take her on bike rides and/or take time to do some obedience.. make sure she's tired! Looking at my B.. he wouldn't be tired from running around in the backyard..
Also: drive back home at lunch time, so she can be walked. It decreases the need to pee in the crate and it also gives her the possibility to loose energy (one-year olds have lots of that..)
You can also try to slowly give her more space.. Maybe you can put her in one room of the house? Or use an x-pen? You could make sure she's really tired in the weekend and then leave her loose for 15 min and see what she does? Maybe you can secure your backyard and work with a doggy door...?

I really do hope you can find a way to make it work for both the humans and the dog.

[pennypen]

Penny has never had the energy of any other basenji I've met. She's very mello to the point where yes i can take her to the park where she will run for hours but at home when she wants to play after about 30 mins she is done and will go cuddle up on the couch. I do know a tired basenji is a happy basenji and in that case Penny is happy A lot because she loves to relax.

I have thought about getting another dog because i think if she had a pack memeber to spend the day with she wouldnt be so sad we were gone. But i'm sure somone of you would have a HUGE problem with that since i am already an unfit mother basically.
Basenji's are pack dogs and just want to be around their pack and it suck thats her only 2 pack member work …. And i actually have changed my work shift to a couple hours later so she is only crated for 6 hours. I do what i can for her and i appreciate the poeple who understand and see thats because she is my world.

[renaultf1]

Janneke - I really respect what you are saying. For me, here's the thing. I can't NOT CRATE during the day. In my house, Brando broke his leg - compound fracture (so bleeding) - when I left him out in the house with Ruby for a half hour (while I walked Aaliyah). Before that he and Ruby were left out during the day when I worked. After that, they are crated. Had it been a work day, there is a good chance Brando would have been dead.

So if you had a dog that got injured during play - and then I believe Ruby attacked him after he was injured - would you still think crating was so bad. And if that was the case, you would give up your dog for adoption.

And I know Tanza will say that things can happen during crating, but I can only go by what has happened in my house. If Brando would have died, I would be forever saying "I should have crated him."

[DebraDownSouth]

@listeme:

What on earth? Is it a slow saturday or something?

Peeing in the crate has solutions. Workday crating has solutions. You love the dog, the dog loves you guys; this is not a "give up the dog" situation at all.

The poster is doing a lot of things to attempt to mitigate the crating unhappiness, and the pup is still young. I think she's on the right track!

I actually started to copy and respond to 2 people but you hit it on the nail. The OP wasn't rude, but others were.

The freaking pup gets lots of love and care. Dogs sleep 17 to 18 hours a day… being in a freaking crate isn't ideal but hell no she doesn't need to call BRAT, give up her dog, nor is it abusive. Bully for people who DON'T HAVE TO WORK, but most do. Guess we should just all euthanize every pet of every home that has to work. Good grief.

You might consider getting a GIGANTIC crate and put a tray with pee pads or litter pan or papers at one end. Better to let her potty, easy to clean up, and deal with it. OR, if possible a room that is totally basenji proofed (not easy). As for being destructive when you are gone, well... most are. Every poll I have ever seen, most of us crate when not home. As for outside, I don't care what kind of paved area, someone can poison your dog, shoot your dog etc. An inside crate is a SAFE place. Don't let others bully you.

You might limit water in the mornings you aren't going to come home at lunch, or try to get a neighbor to potty her on those days. But please do not think most of us here think what is happening is your abusing or neglecting the dog. At a year, physically she should be able to hold for 8 hours. Get her checked for UTI and just keep trying suggestions til you find the one that works.

[Janneke]

@renaultf1:

So if you had a dog that got injured during play - and then I believe Ruby attacked him after he was injured - would you still think crating was so bad. And if that was the case, you would give up your dog for adoption.

Yes. If Tillo would get injured during play or die while loose in the house, I would still think that it was better for him to be loose than to be crated. I feel that putting a dog in a small cage for such a long time is cruel.. For me 5 x 8 hours of caging is much worse than the possibility of an accident. (and Tillo is home alone about 2 days a week, for about 2-3 hour). I feel the same about off leash walking. I believe a dog feels happier when he gets enough time to run free, do what he wants, chase things, act like a dog.. than always being walked on that stupid (and very safe.. I know..) leash. You can't control everything. You can try to make it as safe as possible, but that's it. Taking an animals freedom to make sure nothing can happen to it, is crossing a line for me..

In August our doggy daycare stopped and I had major stress. I emailed everyone I know, put a message on a Dutch dog forum and emailed some local dog clubs, just to find a (temporary) dogsitter. I found one, but if I hadn't, I would have tried to find a new home for Tillo. Just because I love him. He deserves the best. And that doesn't include being crated for lengths of time..

[DebraDownSouth]

@Elscodobermann:

Owning a basenji (or any dog) is a priviledge, not a right - and you really need to put the work in i.e. exercise & training to make sure both you and your dog have an enjoyable life together.

@Elscodobermann:

Tough. if people work full time during the day and want a basenji - it doesnt automatically mean they should have one.

As for the above… just a heads up about what you posted that, IMHO (since you are so big on this forum being about giving opinions) was beyond snarky and rude. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but I'd have told you to take a flying leap.

The op cares for her dog better than 99 percent of animals on earth and is asking for help and she gets 2 people telling her "TOUGH" shouldn't have one, call brat to rehome. Y'all need to chill out. Take a deep breathe. Step away from the computer monitor. Abusing someone asking sincerely for help is a sure way to keep them from getting help. Your responses are appropriate for someone ABUSING their pet. This isn't abuse.

West is so over the top I am going to sign off and not respond. From someone on here asking for basic help to jump down the throat of someone who has one issue, well that's rich.

I lied, I am going to respond. Few dogs if any LOVE being in their crate. Big WHOOP. They learn to deal with it. You get them toys, you tire them out, and they learn to cope. Such melodrama in your posts, people have responded less dramatically to a dog ACTUALLY be abused.

You know West, your questions here have been so utterly basic and devoid of minimal dog training skills I can assure you if I were a BRAT coordinator you would NEVER EVER in a million years foster for me. Get over yourself already before you paint a dog not wanting to be crated as some life destroying event. It isn't. Nor did she reject tons of ideas, simply responded and rejected ONE, the outside.

@westcoastflea1:

is it your fault? NO everyone has to work but…
there were solutions given to help your b be happier when left alone but you said you were unable to use any of them

so where does that leave your dog?

isolated, in a crate unhappy 8 hours a day 5 days a week, happy and fulfilled the rest of the time

so if nothing else i hope my suggestion that your b might be happier with a family that could give her more then 8 hours a day in a crate has made you realize that if she is unhappy in her crate for 8 hours a day you NEED to do something about it

@westcoastflea1:

maybe you should call brat and arrange for them to find your dog a new home

a home where someone is at home most of the time or has the ability financially or otherwise to give your b what she needs

@westcoastflea1:

it sounds to me like the owner of this basenji has no workable options when it comes to making her basenji happy while she works

she has been given options and she has rejected all of them as not working for her situation, which is fine

however the dog is clearly unhappy being left alone for 8 hours a day

solving the issue of the dog peeing in her crate DOESNT solve the REAL issue which is that this dog IS NOT happy being left alone crated or uncrated 8 hours a day

[pennypen]

@DebraDownSouth:

@Elscodobermann:

The op cares for her dog better than 99 percent of animals on earth and is asking for help and she gets 2 people telling her "TOUGH" shouldn't have one, call brat to rehome. Y'all need to chill out. Take a deep breathe. Step away from the computer monitor. Abusing someone asking sincerely for help is a sure way to keep them from getting help. Your responses are appropriate for someone ABUSING their pet. This isn't abuse.

You are my hero Debra. Seriously thank you to everyone who has given me good solid advice and help and stood up for me because i was going to delet my membership. I was honestly so excited to become a memeber and get to talk to basenji owners like me whom i has asumed were all really great and nice people … it sucks not everyone is but I am eternally greatful to those that are.
Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!

[westcoastflea1]

this isnt a question of crating or not crating

good dog owner or bad dog owner

or whether one, two or dozens of basenjis dont mind being in a crate all day

this is about a dog who has made it very clear that it doesnt want to be alone 8 hours a day, that it doesnt want to be in a crate for 8 hours a day and is actually peeing while in the crate when its perfectly capable of holding its urine when not in the crate

so why is this dog crated 8 hours a day 5 days a week?

because the owner has to work

the owner has been given suggestions on some things that might help her dog adjust to being alone or crated so much of the time but has turned down every one of them

the owner has made it clear that she is not able to change the situation for the dog so it seems clear that the dog will continue being left alone and crated 8 hours a day til it finally gives up and accepts it

have i missed anything here?

perhaps suggesting that the dog would be better off in a home where it was not isolated 8 hours a day in a crate is what will motivate this woman to do what she needs to do to meet her b's needs for less isolation and crate time