Peeing in the crate

[tanza]

I can understand the need to crate during the day…. lucky that my home is such that I don't have to do that with a dog room and access to the yard. But most of us have to work, therefore especially with young dogs, there is a need to crate when at work. That said, if I had to crate during the day, I would never crate them at night... way to much crate time for a young dog....

But I agree with Janneke, she should be walked in the morning .... her just going outside to go potty is not going to remove the energy she has, especially being only 1yr old.

[pennypen]

I know I am thinking in human terms but it's hard because she has done things that make me think that way. I use to work in a day care and she is exactly like a toddler lol i know she is not but she acts just like one.

I take her to the vet when she is due and her 1 year check up is in a couple weeks but I don't thinks its a UTI because when we are home she doesn't go all the time. I will ask my vet to do the test tho just to make sure.

She is just a really mello basenji. She loves poeple and loves every animal she has met. She mainly prefers to cuddle with us on the couch but I take her to the local dog park 4 times a week because she loves other dogs and we meet some whippets there she loves to run with. On the days i can't take her to the park we both play with her and throw her toys and play games. She thinks my fiance is a play mate, so his authority means nothing to her she just always thinks he wants to play when he asks her to sit she just dances and around and gets in her "lets play" stance.

She is extreemly attached to both of us which could be part of the problem. She get very upset if one of us leaves and will cry and look for that person for a hour before she settles.
We don't crate her and night because she isn't destructive when we are home. We have tried to leave her home uncrated but she is so upset by us leaving that she completely destroyed the carpet in our apartment and will go to the bathroom all over the place. I would LOVE to not crate her and trust that we wouldnt destroy something.
When we got her it took MONTHS for her to stop crying in the crate at night. Now every so often we will put her in the crate to sleep and she doesnt cry but i dont think she really sleeps because the next day she is exsausted and sleep half the day away. She is behaved in the crate but doesnt like it if that makes sence. I tried everything to try and get her to love the crate with positive reinforcment but she does not have it. I use to put toys in but she would shred them and she doesnt do that out of the crate. I put a chew in and she won't touch it the entire time.
I feel aweful because i hate crating her but i have no choice. Im basically at a lose of how to make her crate a happy place.

[listeme]

She sounds like a really sweet girl!

When you go to the vet, assuming there's nothing medically wrong, I wonder if looking at some DAP or rescue remedy type things might be a direction to look at. She may very well be plain old missing you, but some of those remedies can take the edge off.

Also, consider setting up a webcam or video camera to try to see what she does when you leave. Does she wail for five minutes and then settle? Or is she unhappy all day?

Also, some basenjis have a STRONG preference for one type of crate over the other. Simon hates wire crates with his whole being, but is happy as a clam in the enclosed plastic type.

[Elscodobermann]

If your fiance has the time to go out for a smoke, why not get him to take her a good walk while he does? Leaving the door open to the yard is no use - most dogs will just sit at the door waiting to go back in once they have done their business - it truly doesnt count as exercise.

i personally dont agree with crating a dog for that long, but if you have to do that then you really have to make sure they are physically - and mentally- stimulated, and basically tired out before she is left in for the day.
Owning a basenji (or any dog) is a priviledge, not a right - and you really need to put the work in i.e. exercise & training to make sure both you and your dog have an enjoyable life together.

[pennypen]

@Elscodobermann:

If your fiance has the time to go out for a smoke, why not get him to take her a good walk while he does? Leaving the door open to the yard is no use - most dogs will just sit at the door waiting to go back in once they have done their business - it truly doesnt count as exercise.

i personally dont agree with crating a dog for that long, but if you have to do that then you really have to make sure they are physically - and mentally- stimulated, and basically tired out before she is left in for the day.
Owning a basenji (or any dog) is a priviledge, not a right - and you really need to put the work in i.e. exercise & training to make sure both you and your dog have an enjoyable life together.

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i dont walk her in the mornings because she is playing in the yard until we leave and running around the house. I play with her while i get ready, kicking her ball or playing the hair dryer game. She releases energy for 2 hours in the morning (my fiance is up an hour before me). We never close the door to the backyard she loves to run around in it ... if we close the door when she is out there yes she sits by it and cruies because we are not out there with her which is why we leave all our doors open to the rooms we are in.

You may not agree with crating for 8 hours but when both people work full time thats what happens. Our dog is extreemly happy and isn;t lacking in any exercise because i make sure of it. I am starting her in lure coursing now that she is old enough. So i don'y mean to be rude but saying that i am not is insulting. Not to mention my breeder insists on crating while we are at work.

[pennypen]

@listeme:

She sounds like a really sweet girl!

When you go to the vet, assuming there's nothing medically wrong, I wonder if looking at some DAP or rescue remedy type things might be a direction to look at. She may very well be plain old missing you, but some of those remedies can take the edge off.

Also, consider setting up a webcam or video camera to try to see what she does when you leave. Does she wail for five minutes and then settle? Or is she unhappy all day?

Also, some basenjis have a STRONG preference for one type of crate over the other. Simon hates wire crates with his whole being, but is happy as a clam in the enclosed plastic type.

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we had originally got a plastic crate but after months of her still crying we switched for the wire which she hates just as much.

I have thought about installing a webcam to see what she does. I also think we should get another dog for her. We often have my friend and her dog over and i can lock them outside and she doesnt even care because she has someone to play with. I know basenjis are pack dogs and i think both of us leaving her really just causes so much anxiety. We have had to leave town once for a long weekend and i had a friend wartch her in our house so it wasnt as upsetting and she said she sat by the front door most of the time and cried the entire first day.

[Elscodobermann]

@pennypen:

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You may not agree with crating for 8 hours but when both people work full time thats what happens. QUOTE]

Tough. if people work full time during the day and want a basenji - it doesnt automatically mean they should have one. Both me & my partner work full time but we would not have dogs if we didnt have the facilities to ensure they can exercise and relieve themselves during the day if they have to.

Sure some basenjis cope with it but i dont like the idea that your little girl is somehow doing something wrong by peeing in her crate when she is left in for 8 hours at a time. If you have an enclosed yard couldnt you put up a kennel and a run outside for her - that way she can be safe and secure, but can also have a pee or a poop if she needs to?

Or if thats not an option what about a dog walker?

[pennypen]

@Elscodobermann:

@pennypen:

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You may not agree with crating for 8 hours but when both people work full time thats what happens. QUOTE]

Tough. if people work full time during the day and want a basenji - it doesnt automatically mean they should have one. Both me & my partner work full time but we would not have dogs if we didnt have the facilities to ensure they can exercise and relieve themselves during the day if they have to.

Sure some basenjis cope with it but i dont like the idea that your little girl is somehow doing something wrong by peeing in her crate when she is left in for 8 hours at a time. If you have an enclosed yard couldnt you put up a kennel and a run outside for her - that way she can be safe and secure, but can also have a pee or a poop if she needs to?

Or if thats not an option what about a dog walker?

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Crating a dog is an oppion not a right or wrong. I never agreed with crating before I got her. But considering every basenji training site says to crate your dog when gone I dont see how I am the bad guy.

I dont trust her outside to not dig under the fence to get out considering she tried to dig through the carpet and flooring in our apartment when we tried leaving her uncrated.
I care to much about her to NOT crate her because if i left her out in the yard and she got out and got hit by a car i would never forgive myself.
Also I did state, if you read any of my previous responses that we try and come home for lunch when we can.
I am not saying she is bad because she does it. I never scold her when i come home and find she has done it. I wrote this because I don't feel it is a matter of not being able to hold her bladder because she has gone 8 hours with going in the crate many times and really wanted some helpful suggestion. Your negativity is anything but helpful and just shows ignorance to any situation but your own. I don't mean to be rude but that is how you come across to me.

[Elscodobermann]

Well for someone who says they dont mean to be rude you have had a pretty good shot at it.

This is an open forum with lots of opinions expressed on different subjects - to say i dont care about any other sitation other than my own is offensive.

I care for the welfare of all dogs. If i express an opinion that perhaps its not the dogs fault that a situation is occurring, that doesnt mean i am wrong, or being rude. Its an opinion based on over 25 years of owning, showing and breeding dogs.

But it is just an opinion, its up to you to listen or not.

i didnt suggest leaving your dog in the yard unsecured. if you lay paving slabs in an area, put up a run on it with a kennel - she would be safe, couldnt dig out, and could relieve herself if she needs to. Thats what i have done, and i hope if you try it that it works for you too.

i am not against using crates - i use them too and agree they are a great way of making sure your basenji (and your posessions) are safe when you cant keep an eye on them. But i dont agree with the notion (and this isnt aimed solely at you, because i know lots of our American basenji folk crate all day) that we should expect our dogs to be happy and clean for 8 hours in a crate - some can, some cant.

What i was hoping to put across was that if its not working for your girl, perhaps you should rethink how/where she spends her daytime. I have friends who use a doggy daycare centre, other friends who use dog walkers - all in the same situation as you but have different ways of dealing with it.

[pennypen]

@Elscodobermann:

Well for someone who says they dont mean to be rude you have had a pretty good shot at it.

This is an open forum with lots of opinions expressed on different subjects - to say i dont care about any other sitation other than my own is offensive.

I care for the welfare of all dogs. If i express an opinion that perhaps its not the dogs fault that a situation is occurring, that doesnt mean i am wrong, or being rude. Its an opinion based on over 25 years of owning, showing and breeding dogs. But just an opinion, its up to you to listen or not.

i didnt suggest leaving your dog in the yard unsecured. if you lay paving slabs in an area, put up a run on it with a kennel - she would be safe, couldnt dig out, and could relieve herself if she needs to. Thats what i have done, and i hope if you try it that it works for you too.

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I never said you didnt care i said you you don't seem to having any understanding of different living situations. And many many dog owners crate their dogs while at work. You obviously care and i never indicated you didn't
I appreciate any feed back but when i am acused of being a bad caregiver to my dog i take offense to it because i was raised with English Goldens which my mother bred.
I think leaving my dog outside in the cold or extreem heat (i live in Texas) is more cruel. Believe me if i had any choice to not crate her I would but she is safer in the crate. Since getting Penny I have had to become an extreemly open minded person being as she is different from any other breed I have owned. But i also know that our golden where left inside our house for 8 hours and never ever had accidents. I am concered not mad … a little frustrated but definitly not mad.
Again i didnt mean to offend i was just trying to tell you how you came across. I do appreciate any advice given whether i agree with it or not.
Also we just bought a house and are paying for a wedding so the funds to take her to doggie care 5 days a week (which would be nice) just can not be done.

[westcoastflea1]

oh boy i know im going to get slammed on this but….

if day care is not an option
and a dog walker is not an option
and an outside pen that is dog proof is not an option
and if your dog is so stressed at being away from you that she pees and poops and destroys your house
so that the only option you have is to keep her in a crate 8 hours a day which clearly makes her very very unhappy
then....
maybe you should call brat and arrange for them to find your dog a new home

a home where someone is at home most of the time or has the ability financially or otherwise to give your b what she needs

brat can find the perfect home for your b where she will have her needs met and be happy

you may not want to give her up but what is more important your happiness or your bs happiness?

right now it sounds like she is miserable most of the time
is that what you want for her?

once she is gone you can do some research and find a dog that will be fine when left alone 8 hours a day perhaps one of the dogs you mentioned in an earlier posts

[listeme]

What on earth? Is it a slow saturday or something?

Peeing in the crate has solutions. Workday crating has solutions. You love the dog, the dog loves you guys; this is not a "give up the dog" situation at all.

The poster is doing a lot of things to attempt to mitigate the crating unhappiness, and the pup is still young. I think she's on the right track!

[pennypen]

wow i am so upset and dissappointed in someone of the people on here.
She is 1 people! AND i am a good owner and do NOT abuse my pet which is basically how some of you are acting. This last post has litterally made me cry and i feel that is aweful when i came on here for help.

She doesnt pee IN the crate she pees outside it so i really thinks it is behavioral.

I honestly can;t believe there are so many idiots on here that don't understand issues like this. And I appologize for those who have given me helpful input on here.

My breeder actually told me a was silly when I had told her we use to come home twice during our work day. They should be crated and there is nothing wrong with it. I told her about the things that were said on here and she was appauled. We keep in contact and she knows Penny went to a good home. I NEVER board her she always goes to my breeder or to my friend who has 2 whippets and we never ever leave her alone all day or anything like that.

She is NOT unhappy most of the time she loves us and loves to play and run and cuddle and just be around us. I think most basenji owns have FT jobs and have to leave their senjis and alot of them crate them I am not the only one BY FAR.
People constantly come up to us at the park and are amazed by how well behaved and friendly she is. She never shies away from people and wants you to pick her up and love her.
I have made sure to socialize since i got her and make sure to give her the exercise she needs. We have a 3200 sq/ft, it's not like she doesnt have room, plus a back yard to frolic in. We take her on walk around our neighbor hood and that park that is 2 blocks away.

WHY i am defending myself to you i have no idea.
Miserable most of the time???? …. i mean do people even READ these posts or just pick out things in them and go off on a rant when you have NO clue what you are talking about.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[westcoastflea1]

it sounds to me like the owner of this basenji has no workable options when it comes to making her basenji happy while she works

she has been given options and she has rejected all of them as not working for her situation, which is fine

however the dog is clearly unhappy being left alone for 8 hours a day

solving the issue of the dog peeing in her crate DOESNT solve the REAL issue which is that this dog IS NOT happy being left alone crated or uncrated 8 hours a day

can you blame her?

if they really LOVE the dog they will figure out a way to keep their dog from being isolated or kept in a crate 8 hours a day

and if they cant find a solution then out of LOVE they should find a home for their dog that meets its needs

and yes im sure there are many people here who crate their basenjis 8 hours a day 5 days a week and maybe their bs are alright with that, but this one clearly isnt

[pennypen]

@listeme:

what on earth? Is it a slow saturday or something?

Peeing in the crate has solutions. Workday crating has solutions. You love the dog, the dog loves you guys; this is not a "give up the dog" situation at all.

The poster is doing a lot of things to attempt to mitigate the crating unhappiness, and the pup is still young. I think she's on the right track!

thank you!!!!!!!!

[westcoastflea1]

this has absolutely nothing to do with whether you love your basenji or are a good pet owner

im sure you do and you are

you wrote saying that when your basenji is left alone she tears apart the house
you also said that she doesnt like being crated, was peeing while in the crate and cries all the time when left alone

if you are working 8 hours a day 5 days a week then it seems to me that that is alot of time for your b to be unhappy

is it your fault? NO everyone has to work but…

there were solutions given to help your b be happier when left alone but you said you were unable to use any of them

so where does that leave your dog?

isolated, in a crate unhappy 8 hours a day 5 days a week, happy and fulfilled the rest of the time

again this has nothing to do with how much you love her and what a good dog owner you are, you have to work that is a fact of life

but it seems that trying to stop the peeing is just covering up the bigger issue which is that she is unhappy being left alone so much of the time

so if nothing else i hope my suggestion that your b might be happier with a family that could give her more then 8 hours a day in a crate has made you realize that if she is unhappy in her crate for 8 hours a day you NEED to do something about it

[sonnyboy]

Hi there! don't let the opinion of a few get to you..there are a lot of great people on here who will be helpful and supportive to you with useful suggestions…I'm single and own a great basenji boy named Sonny. I have to work for a living and Sonny does spend the day while I'm at work home alone. While I don't have to crate him because he is not destructive it's still much like your situation. Which is just a normal part of life My boy is still very happy and lives a great life even though he's spends some alone time while I'm at work. He's well loved and cared for just like your girl. I think its great that your seeking advice and doing your best to find a solution to her troubles in the crate.
For someone to suggest that your B would be better off rehomed is just ridiculous. would the same be said of my B just because I also don't have the extra money to spend on doggie day care?! I provide the best for him and love him more then anyone else ever could. And I think you're doing the same by trying to find a way to fix the crate problem you have..Hang in there....you'll find the right answer

[renaultf1]

@westcoastflea1:

so if nothing else i hope my suggestion that your b might be happier with a family that could give her more then 8 hours a day in a crate has made you realize that if she is unhappy in her crate for 8 hours a day you NEED to do something about it

OMG, give it a break. I 100% agree with listme - the OP came on here looking for advice and wants to do something about it - did you not read her posts.

I find it interesting that you are chastising this person (who clearly wants to keep her dog and wants to work thru the problem) when you do rescue. You have been on here recently when you've had fosters for less than a week and said you were frustrated and needed advice. Even though some of us have thought it was unreasonable to expect ideal behaviour in a week's time, we've offered advice to you. So step back and think before you post.

[Janneke]

It's a bit harsh to tell someone you don't know, who's trying to be good for her dog, to find a new home for it.. There are other solutions..

But I do agree with some points.. keeping a dog crated 8+ hours/day is 'not done' for me. If people work full time and they can't find another solution then crating their dog(s), they shouldn't buy a dog. Like Elscodobermann said: it's not a right, it's a privilege.. Like I said before, I very often read on this forum that people keep their dogs in crates during the day, sometimes even 10 to 12 hours! And the excuse that 'they aren't crated at night' just doesn't work for me.. they are sleeping at night… not trotting around...

If I were you, and I couldn't find a way to solve the 8 hour crating, I would try to find a new home for my B.. So I do understand westcoastflea1.. But I think there are some ways to solve it.. Maybe you can find a daycare? Or a dogsitter? If not: get up as early as possible and walk her, take her on bike rides and/or take time to do some obedience.. make sure she's tired! Looking at my B.. he wouldn't be tired from running around in the backyard..
Also: drive back home at lunch time, so she can be walked. It decreases the need to pee in the crate and it also gives her the possibility to loose energy (one-year olds have lots of that..)
You can also try to slowly give her more space.. Maybe you can put her in one room of the house? Or use an x-pen? You could make sure she's really tired in the weekend and then leave her loose for 15 min and see what she does? Maybe you can secure your backyard and work with a doggy door...?

I really do hope you can find a way to make it work for both the humans and the dog.

[pennypen]

Penny has never had the energy of any other basenji I've met. She's very mello to the point where yes i can take her to the park where she will run for hours but at home when she wants to play after about 30 mins she is done and will go cuddle up on the couch. I do know a tired basenji is a happy basenji and in that case Penny is happy A lot because she loves to relax.

I have thought about getting another dog because i think if she had a pack memeber to spend the day with she wouldnt be so sad we were gone. But i'm sure somone of you would have a HUGE problem with that since i am already an unfit mother basically.
Basenji's are pack dogs and just want to be around their pack and it suck thats her only 2 pack member work …. And i actually have changed my work shift to a couple hours later so she is only crated for 6 hours. I do what i can for her and i appreciate the poeple who understand and see thats because she is my world.