Markings and Showing

[wizard]

I know this is dog talk - but "nice bitch"? - isn't that an oxymoron?

[nomrbddgs]

Haa haa! 'Nice Bitch', is there one??

Anyway. Damisi had a little bit of a hard time in Canada. For one, she was an idiot in the ring. Very headstrong. Couldn't touch her feet, wanted to do what she wanted to do, etc. She just wasn't mature enough. She also has a long sock. I like it and wish the other side was the same. But, it does give an illusion when she moves. Let me see if I can find a pic of her. But also, I know one judge actually has discussed the spot on the back thing and believes, in her opinion, it is a mismark and refuses to judge the dog. She also refuses to judge a trindle. She will allow the dogs in the ring, but puts them at the back of the bus. The dog with the spot has many champion titles.

[lvoss]

If a judge is known to not place a dog for a perfectly acceptable marking then the best thing to do is not enter under them. If a judge can't draw a reasonable entry then clubs are less likely to hire them.

Judges like that are not the norm and I definitely wouldn't allow that to dictate what I kept or didn't keep. One of the breeders who came over to evaluate TC's litter made the comment that she would keep Dean as the "show dog" and Bella as the "breeding dog" since she was so plainly marked she probably won't do well in the show ring. Both myself and the other breeder there doing the evaluation strongly disagreed, Bella is well put together though she has no collar or blaze abut definitely knows she should be the center of attention.

I do think that more than just what is in the standard gets judged but I think it is much more often attitude and behavior of the dog than markings.

[lvoss]

Here are Cole's 8 week puppy pictures.

You can see there is a big difference in the width of his collar on each side and there have been judges that want to see him on both sides trying to figure out exactly how long his neck is. Here he is an adult, I only have show side photos though.

[dmcarty]

I had a bitch thumper that was very evenly marked in the front - right and left side and leges - but actually the white sort of slid over an inch which made her front look off coming at you. When she was a baby I actually drew down her more white in front leg with a sharpie so I could see what it really did.

I'm not bothered by markings - I hope I know enough about the breed to not let the color fool me - I'm really not bothered by coat texture - I am however bothered by narrow catherdral fronts and dogs that pitty pat around the ring. (so now you all know)

[nomrbddgs]

I know what you mean Diana, we are losing fronts faster than we can get better ones. Damisi has a great front and rear and she's a beautiful mover. She happens also to be a little small. But the sock does give an illusion. It takes a good, bold judge to be able to separate a lot of things. She is out of Ubora Wili, related to Jacque (did I spell it right?). I'm hoping to breed her to Scott's Wily next year to keep the line and front. As to what we look at and what the judge sees, we may know what to look for, but I still think a lot of judges are playing a game. It is getting better, but they still seem to look at faces rather than the dog.

[tanza]

If you look at my website I have a number with a "footy" sock and a full on the other front legs…. honestly, showing it was never a problem.... Sure there are a couple of judges that might have not been able to judge past it, but on the whole? I think that the judging community is much better then is being presented here by some.... I totally agree with Diana about fronts... and even worst then that are people that have a Basenji with a catherdral tell people it is the "correct" front...

[mauigirl]

Can you describe a cathedral front? I don't really know what that means.
Is it lacking forechest? I realize these things are hard to put into words…

[lvoss]

I don't have any pictures to show but here is my best try at a description. When you look at a dog with a cathedral front, the collar bone and front legs form an arch, like in a cathedral, that is clearly seen because the dog lacks forechest.

[BasenjiDiva]

I was just looking at a website for a basenji breeder here in southeast GA (out of curiosity only!!) and they advertised 2 of their available puppies as red and white and one as "sable and white". There was a lot of black on the puppy but not tri. (It did still look very young in the photo). They advertise the pups as AKC but "sable" isn't acceptable is it?

Pat

[dmcarty]

While the Duara kennel does have one of my bitches - I don't think that Ubora Wili is from that line - I think she only breed Kiri once - unless as a 7 year old he falls off the back of the pedigree. : 0

[tanza]

@BasenjiDiva:

I was just looking at a website for a basenji breeder here in southeast GA (out of curiosity only!!) and they advertised 2 of their available puppies as red and white and one as "sable and white". There was a lot of black on the puppy but not tri. (It did still look very young in the photo). They advertise the pups as AKC but "sable" isn't acceptable is it?

Pat

All colors are acceptable, but maybe not desired by all. The Basenji standard has no DQ's for color.

[lvoss]

We have 4 colors which are considered standard by AKC and currently also have 5 Alternative colors listed as well as 3 Alternative markings.

Colors:

Black & White S
Black Tan & White S
Brindle & White S
Red & White S
Black Brindle & White A
Blue Cream & White A
Cream & White A
Mahogany Tan & White A
Sable & White A

Markings:

Black Mask A
Black Saddle A
With Cap A

[Quercus]

@tanza:

If you look at my website I have a number with a "footy" sock and a full on the other front legs…. honestly, showing it was never a problem.... Sure there are a couple of judges that might have not been able to judge past it, but on the whole? I think that the judging community is much better then is being presented here by some.... I totally agree with Diana about fronts... and even worst then that are people that have a Basenji with a catherdral tell people it is the "correct" front...

I agree, I think it is difficult in some areas of the country to find a good front. That front assembely being too far foward seems to be the most common fault in Basenji fronts…would you agree?

[Quercus]

@lvoss:

I don't have any pictures to show but here is my best try at a description. When you look at a dog with a cathedral front, the collar bone and front legs form an arch, like in a cathedral, that is clearly seen because the dog lacks forechest.

And often from the side, it looks great because there is a nice forepoint at the chest…but from the front you can really see that it looks sort of 'hollow'.

That being said, often puppies will look more hollow in the chest, and once their musculature fills in they no longer have that look...so IMO you can really only for sure say a dog has a cathedral front once they are mature.

[Buana]

I see with some judges on Dutch shows, they sometimes had issues with a dog for his markings, his foot has so very little white, and make him not pretty.

But our chafuko has also a half collar, and the judges never bothered by it, it doesn't bother me when I look at your pics, I think it makes him cute..
His body and all parts look very good B-like, so thats the important thing also for judges

[tanza]

@Quercus:

I agree, I think it is difficult in some areas of the country to find a good front. That front assembely being too far foward seems to be the most common fault in Basenji fronts…would you agree?

I would agree, but also that there is no shoulder lay back…. and they are so very straight

[nomrbddgs]

@dmcarty:

While the Duara kennel does have one of my bitches - I don't think that Ubora Wili is from that line - I think she only breed Kiri once - unless as a 7 year old he falls off the back of the pedigree. : 0

Sorry Diana, I keep looking at Wili and for some reason equate him with Kiri, don't know why! I love Kiri-she's a lot of Diva attitude! And yes Kiri has only been bred once-to Kero I believe.

[myran]

I agree with Tanza that the shoulder is not enough laid back and the front leg?s seem to grow out of the neck which is faulty(as someone said front assembly is far too forward) that is part of the problem with the cathedral front looks hollow when seen from the front.Also several dog?s are too high on the hock and too straight of course no one want?s dog?s that are overly angulated but that straight makes bad movements.And I do not like the bullterrier heads were the muzzle is longer then the head with no stoop and I certainly don?t like yellow eye?s or Pharao hound ears…hah and list goes on and on....
We have a judge here in sweden who?s judged a lot in america too Dr.G?ran Bodeg?rd he said once that the front is so damn easy to loose but so damn difficult to breed in once you lost it.He also said that in the old day?s when he was young in 1950?s a lot of the old breeders for example in the UK had kennels (he was talking dog?s in general) with 30-50 dog?s and were able to keep several until the age of 6 months before they were sold and thus managed to keep the best maybe not how we want to keep our dog?s in this day and age but with us having to decide often in less then 12 weeks which one to keep errors do occur.
So atleast for me anatomy and mentality always come first also health is of utmost importance last will come the markings.

[lvoss]

How funny that you mentioned Dr Goran Bodegard, he awarded my girl Rally her first point back in 2001. I really enjoyed showing under him and he had a good sense of humor about my goofy puppy who did a somersault trying to get her collar off on our first attempt at the down and back.