One other note about chest 'dropping' (and why did dog people start using that term - it sort of conjurs up visions of dog parts falling off in the yard) One the the biggest problems in basenjis fronts right now is those that are too narrow and have a concave area between the front legs. I'm NOT advocating a front like a bull terrier but there needs to be some 'fill' there to have a good front but it's not the fill it is the actual structure of the bones in the shoulder and upper arm that - if not correct- actally pull the 'front' too far forward. A quick visual scan from the side - if the deepest part of the brisket is well behind the legs - the front is too far forward. We need to pay attention to the actual shoulder structure to make sure we are not continuing to double up on dogs with a short upper arm. That limits front reach, and creates a not efficient side gait. So go catch your dogs and do a quick check - measure from the top of the wither to the point of shoulder (the most prominant bone in the chest.) then from that point to the point of the elbow. They should be the same. if they are not - stand up your dog and put your hand between the front legs - if you hand is IN FRONT OF THE FRONT LEGS - great - if your hand is between the front legs the front on your dog is too far foward.
More than you ever wanted to know probably - LOL
Tayda's test strip
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I have an appointment at noon today to get Tayda in for tests. I called back the place that originally said that they couldn't take the blood and talked to someone else, and apparently, it is not a problem and I should be able to walk out with the results I need. I'll be back with news!
meanwhile, I heard from the breeder who has Tayda's mother… it seems that she (the mother) has been affected and on the protocol for 5 years and is doing well. While its good to hear she's doing well, its NOT good to hear that she was affected and on the protocol BEFORE I got Tayda and her breeder never mentioned it to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know I'm still an idiot for not strip testing myself until now, but I really think he should have told me! I remember asking him about Fanconi when we were first discussing my getting a dog from him and he assured me his lines were clear. Of course, I didn't know enough back then to question it more or look into it myself. ACK!:mad:
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I have an appointment at noon today to get Tayda in for tests. I called back the place that originally said that they couldn't take the blood and talked to someone else, and apparently, it is not a problem and I should be able to walk out with the results I need. I'll be back with news!
meanwhile, I heard from the breeder who has Tayda's mother… it seems that she (the mother) has been affected and on the protocol for 5 years and is doing well. While its good to hear she's doing well, its NOT good to hear that she was affected and on the protocol BEFORE I got Tayda and her breeder never mentioned it to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know I'm still an idiot for not strip testing myself until now, but I really think he should have told me! I remember asking him about Fanconi when we were first discussing my getting a dog from him and he assured me his lines were clear. Of course, I didn't know enough back then to question it more or look into it myself. ACK!:mad:
While we didn't have the test back then (when you got Tayda) so other then what the breeder tells you, there is/was nothing you could do to check, I agree that was uncalled for him not tell you the dam was spilling and certainly should have. I remember my first litter, Maggii's Dam started spilling 3 days before she was due to have her puppies. I made sure that anyone that was interested in a puppy knew up front that while do date, Maggii was stripping clear, her Dam did have Fanconi. I was lucky that Maggii never spilled nor did any of her pups. That is what makes the test so valuable now and the ability to see for yourself that the DNA Fanconi tests were done.
Good luck with the tests and let us know how it goes
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Back from the vet! I don't have the urinanalysis or blood chemistry results yet, but I do have the blood gas results… it seems her pH is 7.32 - basically normal! and her pC02 level is slightly low at 42.9 (normal range being 45-47) There is a line that says "Glu 96 mg/dL" seems like that would be glucose and the normal range is 70-138 mg/dL from previous testing I had done.
So if it is fanconi, it seems like she would be on the lowest dosage of bicarbs - which i hope means we caught it early.
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btw i sent all the results to Dr. Gonto directly since the vet didn't know anything about basenjis or fanconi…
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btw i sent all the results to Dr. Gonto directly since the vet didn't know anything about basenjis or fanconi…
That was a smart thing to do…. you will have to see what Dr Gonto says about the blood gases and the rest of the results when you get them. And while again, I have not had a Fanconi dog, but sounds like you caught it early... Fingers crossed... let us know what Dr Gonto says.
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Well, I heard from Dr. Gonto (what a lovely man!). He believes we caught it in the very early stages and recommended the minimum course of bicarbs. I have everything here with me and will start her on it tomorrow. And even though her urine work didn't indicate a UTI, I got a course of Clavamox anyway - Tayda is peeing a lot and in small amounts - seems very consistant with a UTI so hopefully it will help!
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Well, I heard from Dr. Gonto (what a lovely man!). He believes we caught it in the very early stages and recommended the minimum course of bicarbs. I have everything here with me and will start her on it tomorrow. And even though her urine work didn't indicate a UTI, I got a course of Clavamox anyway - Tayda is peeing a lot and in small amounts - seems very consistant with a UTI so hopefully it will help!
Super… and yes he is a god sent to our breed.... fingers crossed that she does wonderful on the protocol.... and kudos to you for following up.... I still think you would benefit from the yahoo Fanconi list..
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And by the way… many times.... a UTI is missed with a Fanconi dog... so I think it is smart to do a course of Clavamox...
With the Clavamox, know that it can cause some tummy upset... so just keep that in mind during the course of treatment
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i joined the list yesterday! thanks for the suggestion… ill spend my day off tomorrow reading through the 10000 messages.
i gave tayda her first course tonight... 4 pills. 2 of them i just handed to her and she ate them... didn't even need to hide them. the other two i hid in cheese and she gulped them down. Lenny got 4 treats out of it too....
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i joined the list yesterday! thanks for the suggestion… ill spend my day off tomorrow reading through the 10000 messages.
i gave tayda her first course tonight... 4 pills. 2 of them i just handed to her and she ate them... didn't even need to hide them. the other two i hid in cheese and she gulped them down. Lenny got 4 treats out of it too....
That is great news… super..... that is the biggest problem that people have... getting to pills down... again...kudos to you....that is such wonderful news... and glad that you joined the Fanconi list... it will be a big comfort to you to know that there are others facing the same challenges you are....
Hugs to you and Tayda... she has a great Basenji Mom!!!!!!!!!!!
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Congrats for stepping up and getting on with it - life I mean. I said it before, Tayda is super lucky to have you!
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The fanconis list is a wonderful group.
Glad your on there.
Please keep us informed on how she is doing.
Major hugs to you. -
Yes, definitely keep us posted on sweet Tayda's health!
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Sorry to hear about Tayda but she is one lucky girl to have a mom like you! Hopefully it was caught early & she does well on the protocol. We are all here for you!
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So glad to hear you've been able to get on with Tayda's care so quickly. Hope you're feeling a bit of relief, now that you talked with Dr. Gonto and her tests have been done.
Major kudos to you for getting the job done right. Best wishes for Tayda's health on the protocol.
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Thanks for sharing this journey. Lucky Tayda to have such a good mom, and lucky all of us B folks for Dr Gonto and for DNA testing and responsible breeders that may someday eliminate this scourge.
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Thanks to everyone for all their good thoughts and advice. I really would be COMPLETELY in the dark about Fanconi if not for this forum, and at the mercy of these vets that know NOTHING about basenjis or fanconi. I was an idiot and didn't test her regularly, and I've lucked out in that it seems that her onset of Fanconi allowed a UTI to develop. If not for that UTI, and her peeing in the house right in front of my face, I would not have figured this out so soon. She peed on the rug in the living room right in front of me… and two days later, she peed on the couch where I normally sit. It's almost like she was warning me herself that something was going on that I should be paying closer attention to...
Dr. Gonto did tell me that by the time it gets to the point that the dog is drinking and urinating more (non UTI related), he/she could have been spilling sugar for up to 6 months already!
The worst part about this experience was finding a vet that had the capability of doing the blood gasses. Of course it had to be a weekend... and looking back I got a lot of mis-information from the people answering the phone. I confirmed a few times with the vet office that they could do the blood gasses onsite, and even then, the first thing the vet said to me yesterday after I got into the exam room was "you're not going to be happy, we don't have the cartridge to read the blood gasses." Ugh, I told her that I called and confirmed a few times and she said "weren't you the one that called and we suggested you go to Tufts or Angell?" and i said "yes, but that is 2 hours away and since then i've spoken to several members of the staff here who confirmed that you did have the machine and I clarified that it was not an arterial blood draw, but a venous blood draw that was needed." ACK. Turns out, even after all that clarification, she didn't realize what values we needed from the blood gasses and they did have the required cartridge. And she was trying to convince me that Tayda probably just had a UTI, and I said that sugar in urine is not normal for a UTI, and she told me that it IS possible...
Under less critical circumstances, I would have probably walked out of the office, but I just needed to get those blood gas numbers in my hands and into an email to Dr. Gonto....
Again, thanks to everyone for the support, this community is so awesome!
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Good for you to "insist" that they do the Blood Gases and sticking it out till it was done…. and of course for sending them to Dr. Gonto... and I love the "it is possible" response... like we owners are totally clueless (yes of course some are).
Now, I am curious, what was her reaction to the Fanconi Protocol?
For those of you who don't have DNA testing on your Basenji, please consider getting it down now... with the swab test, it certainly is easier then sending in blood.... and for those of you strip testing, please consider doing it 3 to 4 days in a row, instead of just once a month... remember the strips only last 6months... better to get your money's worth out of them....
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She didn't read the whole thing while I was there. I gave her a copy and had a copy for myself and I took her through the parts of it that related to getting the blood gasses and blood chemistries. We never really got to the part that discussed the supplementation. She admitted she knew nothing about Fanconi, and walked in with a book that had one little paragraph about it, and said, "I'm not sure this is Fanconi because it says here that onset is between 2-4 and Tayda is almost 6. I just kind of shook my head and said that less than 2 would be unusual, but later than 4 is normal. I think she knew that I was on a mission, that I had another resource for information that I was consulting, and that I was there purely as a way to get the numbers I needed. She did ask me to leave the protocol there with her, so I think if someone else comes in with a Basenji, she (and the other vets at that practice) will be better educated.
She did ask a few questions about who Dr. Gonto was, where he worked, etc etc… and I didn't know a lot of the answers. I just said that he developed this protocol and that many basenjis are doing very well on it, and it has become a standard for diagnosing and treating Fanconi dogs. She didn't really say much else. I mentioned that he is available for consultation for vets who have not come across fanconi yet, and she didn't seem all that interested in talking to him...
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Interesting… and that is the way it seems to go... either a Vet is "interested" and takes the time to contact Dr. Gonto or they just file it in the "round" file.... Too bad, because that has been one of the biggest problems are Vets that don't know about Fanconi and do not diagnosis it correctly. Oh well..... main thing is that you got the blood gases done... and talked to Dr. Gonto. Do you have to find now a regular Vet that will be interested in learning about Fanconi?
