Training Advice, Please help

[PhocoenaGirl]

A few more ideas for you…

1. Try some tastier items instead of store bought treats. Examples like no-spices cooked chicken or burger, low fat hot dogs, canned chicken or small pieces of cheese (although be careful with the cheese as some dogs can be majorly lactose-intolerant and/or have constipation with too much). For my boy, if it comes from the people's counter it is already worth trying. If it is something he sees me eat first, he thinks it is worth having if not stealing.

2. What was it about clicker training that your new b hates? I have been using a whistle. The clicker required too many hands for me.

3. As another idea for training, some social species (it has been seen in corvid bird species, like parrots, and also chimps and gorillas) that they learn very quickly by observation of someone they know learning. Try having the new b watch you train your old b or go over things she already knows in front of him. You may need to have someone hold him, leash him or crate him to keep him stationary but he can still watch your other b "learning" and getting treats/praise/toys etc.

Keep letting the forum know what works and doesn't for you. Hope things are getting easier.

[ComicDom1]

@Porthos:

I am really having a hard time with my boy, Ramsey. I can't get him to stop chewing up clothes, begging for/stealing food, biting at our face, and running out the front door. Swatting him on the back-side does absolutely no good but he hates having his nose hit. I hate doing it because I know how sensitive a dogs nose is and I don't want to damage it in any way. PLEASE HELP!!!

I am curious as to why you are hitting your dog in the first place? Clearly you have already found out that it is not the best solution and is not working for you. How much time do you spend taking your Basenji's walking every day?

Do you think the dogs are trying to send you a message of some kind?

Have you taken the female to the vet yet or are you just going to sit back and risk that Dogs Health. You know they have credit cards and they give approval online in 5 mins for some of them. Also being former military myself, I know you can go to the credit union and possibly get them to give you a small loan if you agree to have an allotment taken out of your paycheck. Maybe things have changed in that area but it would be worth a try.

Seriously, if you cannot afford to have a dog then why do you? And Yet you have more than one!

I have sat back and been quiet up until this point, but I personally feel (strong statement) that your behavior boarders on neglect and abuse of these animals. If these were your children(granted dogs are not children), would you let money stop you from taking them for proper health care.

I am sorry but I really find your lack of care and treatment of these animals appalling.

Jason

[snorky998]

I strongly agree Comic. Same reason I have not posted until now. Thank you for saying what is in my heart.

I have become a much better housekeeper since the "kids". I adjusted from day 1. Doors shut, garbage contained, laundry contained, collectables and antiques put WAY out of dangers way.

I read and re-read all the info on line (starting 11 years ago- and changing every day) and learned from MY mistakes.

Kate is SOOOOO different from Ty. I had to adjust not only the training, but the house ideals as well. Kate was a "trial by error" dog. Still is, to some extent.

Just an FYI list Porthos:

Underwear is fair game–an open laundry door or bedrooms with socks, panties or shorts on the floor, equates to crotchless panties/shorts.

If B. friendly/engaging toys are not available, then your personal (human) items are fair game.....books, papers from the office, shoes, anything left lying around, etc...

[Porthos]

Are you for real??? that is why I hate trying to get answers here. You all read too much into everything.

1. I take my B's the the park, unfortunately there is no dog parks here, almost everyday and the kids walk them on a regular basis.

2. I don't hit my dogs at all. I tried it, it didn't work, I'm trying other things now.

3. My financial situation was not part of the question so why you brought it up is beyond me.

4. if you don't have positive advice to help, then I would appreciate it if you would continue to "…sit back and keep quiet..."

5. If you think I am abusing or neglecting my Basenji's then feel free to call the ASPCA or Basenji Rescue to come and investigate.

When a question is asked, just answer it, don't go judging what you do not know!!!

To all of you with the good advice, thanks!

A lot of what was suggested, we do. Keep doors closed, moved the litter box, push the food away from the edge, a basket full of toys for both of them. but the one good one I didn't think of was having him watch my girl learn something she already know and see if he learns from that. What has been happening is she has been following him and doing some of his bad things. She just started chewing clothes again after many years of not doing it no more. He has learned "not yours", for the most part... if he really want's it, he will run outside with it when we say "not yours"...

That's enough for now, thanks for the "good" advice.
If you don't have any "good" advice, please keep you comments to your self and just "...sit back and keep quiet..."

Porthos

[sharronhurlbut]

To keep your dogs distracted and busy, I get beef bones with marrow in them, in 2 in slices, freeze them, and give them to the b's when I need a bit of time to myself.
Its keeps them busy and they love it.

[ComicDom1]

My responses will appear in red within the copy of what I quoted that you posted previously.

@Porthos:

Are you for real??? that is why I hate trying to get answers here. You all read too much into everything.

1. I take my B's the the park, unfortunately there is no dog parks here, almost everyday and the kids walk them on a regular basis.

I personally only asked about you walking your dogs and mentioned nothing about dog parks. Since I am not going to reread all the posts again in this thread I will concede that its possible another member did. I only asked the question in regard to walking your Basenji's because this activity or lack of it can have a direct impact on their behavior.

2. I don't hit my dogs at all. I tried it, it didn't work, I'm trying other things now.

In one sentence you say you do not hit your dogs and in another you say you did. If you are going post about hitting your dog in the nose and how your dog reacted, we have not read any more into anything than you yourself have claimed. Its good you finally figured out that hitting your dog was not the best route and you are trying other things. Even so, the fact remains you already admitted to hitting your dog! I do not think there is any confusion from anyone except for you in regard to this.

3. My financial situation was not part of the question so why you brought it up is beyond me.

**Excuse me? You brought up your financial situation in another thread when you were asked if you had taken your Female Basenji to the Vet after the birth of two puppies.

Taking your Basenji to the Vet after birth is very important and not considered optional to insure the health of the mother and prevent any chance of a serious uterine infection that possibly could kill her. Your answer was that you needed to wait until pay day so you could afford to do it. So to save time I combined it in this one. As far as I can tell you are not responding to whether your took your female to the Vet after the birth and you have been asked several times. So yes there certainly is an assumption, at least on my part that you have not done so. If you had there would have been no reason to keep it a secret.
**
**In addition, Even when you knew your Female was pregnant you neglected to take her to the Vet previous to birth so an Xray or possibly a ultrasound could have been done to insure both the mothers as well as the puppies health, and you would have had an idea how many puppies to expect.
**

4. if you don't have positive advice to help, then I would appreciate it if you would continue to "…sit back and keep quiet..."

**You were given positive advice by many people in the other thread as well as this one. It appears when it came to the health of your female and her pregnancy, you simply have chosen to ignore it. Tell me what motivation is there for anyone to post any kind of advice for you be it positive or negative if you are going to ignore it. Just because you do not agree with what is posted does not mean those comments or advice offered is wrong

Apparently you only want people to post what you agree with and establish some sort of rules for others when you do not like what they have to say.

I have no doubt, that every one that has posted in this thread and the other one had the best intentions and were attempting to help you. Many of us were just trying to motivate you to consult a vet and seek the proper care for your female. Maybe if you had done that from that from the beginning, and received some instruction from the vet, it might have been possible to save the life of the two puppies.**

5. If you think I am abusing or neglecting my Basenji's then feel free to call the ASPCA or Basenji Rescue to come and investigate.

****Believe me, I personally considered doing just that as well as contacting your base commander. I even suggested it to another member on this forum in a private conversation. I have even gone as far as looking up the number to the vet clinic on your base and plan on calling them next week to find out if they have any xray equipment.

I have no doubt, that you do not like the comments I have posted, but I do have the welfare of the dogs in your possession at heart. The statements I have posted previously are only based on the information you personally have provided.****

When a question is asked, just answer it, don't go judging what you do not know!!!

****The only information that anyone has available to use in regard to your Basenji's is based on what you have personally provided. If you have left out important details that would clarify the situation, then you have no one else to blame but yourself. No one else is behind the keyboard on your side telling you what to communicate. You have constantly ignored questions related to taking your Female Basenji to the Vet for followup care after birth, this suggests very strongly that you haven't done so. Once again, all anyone has to go on in this forum is what is presented to the members. If it is incorrect information, then it is solely up to you to correct it!

---

To all of you with the good advice, thanks!

A lot of what was suggested, we do. Keep doors closed, moved the litter box, push the food away from the edge, a basket full of toys for both of them. but the one good one I didn't think of was having him watch my girl learn something she already know and see if he learns from that. What has been happening is she has been following him and doing some of his bad things. She just started chewing clothes again after many years of not doing it no more. He has learned "not yours", for the most part… if he really want's it, he will run outside with it when we say "not yours"...

That's enough for now, thanks for the "good" advice.
If you don't have any "good" advice, please keep you comments to your self and just "...sit back and keep quiet..."

**_It's good that you are doing a lot of what was suggested, but if you are doing a lot of it and not all of it then you yourself have admitted there is room for improvement. Apparently you have appointed yourself to decide what is "good" or "bad" advice. In my opinion there is no better example of "Judging" someone else or their advice then what you have posted. Advice is subjective. What is good for you might not be good for someone else. This certainly does not mean the advice is bad or should not be offered.

If you want to control what can be posted, then maybe you should consider starting your own forum just so you have the ability to censor comments you disagree with or do not like!_**

Porthos

Jason

[lvoss]

@Porthos:

2. I don't hit my dogs at all. I tried it, it didn't work, I'm trying other things now.

This statement is contrary to several of your own posts.

@Porthos:

Swatting him on the back-side does absolutely no good but he hates having his nose hit. I hate doing it because I know how sensitive a dogs nose is and I don't want to damage it in any way.

@Porthos:

She responded to yelling and the rolled up newspaper. that was after taking her to a training class that did not work.

So people got the idea that you hit your dogs directly from your own words on the subject.

3. My financial situation was not part of the question so why you brought it up is beyond me.

Again, in other threads you have mentioned that finances are a concern that factors into your decision making process.

@Porthos:

I love my dogs very much, but I'm not rich, and can't afford to just run to a vet all the time, so I use all the resources that are available to me.

[ComicDom1]

@Porthos:

As a matter of fact I called them at 9 when they opened and they said that they could not do X-Rays or ultrasounds and I would have to go to someplace off post…

oh, yes, she has been eating and drinking and is currently sleeping on the couch next to me

I think the information I am about the post will answer some questions. I am going to cross post this in the other thread as well.

Today, I called the Fort Hood Clinic. The woman that answered the phone said they indeed do Xrays. When I specifically asked if they could X-ray a dog prior to delivery? The answer was yes and then I was given information about the proper time within the pregnancy that the clinic would do it. While I did not as about care after birth, it stands to reason that if they are capable and willing to provide proper care prior to birth for the mother and the unborn pups, then they would also provide after care for the birth mother to insure that dogs health.

The bottom line here appears easy to see.

Its very sad and angers me, when a person feels they have to mislead others to cover their own butt! If the other information provided above has been true and accurate, then result is the Female Basenji paid the price for this neglect. Also lets not forget the two Basenji puppies that were born alive but are now dead. I have no idea why proper care and common sense was not used. If you have already witnessed one of the new born puppies losing their life because of the mothers behavior towards it, then common sense would tell you not to put another puppy in harm's way.

Jason

[Vicki]

How old is your Baenji? Some times people get too impatient when dogs are still puppies. Move everything like you would if you had small children. Keep things out of his reach, and continue to say, "No." It takes a lot of time to teach a dog what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior. Praise when he does well, "No" when he does badly. Just like kids!!

[snorky998]

Well stated Comic/Jason. Thank you for the follow up as well.

This "pack" is far reaching and well intentioned. Hopefully those that are willing to learn, will continue to read and research our wonderful breed. I have learned soooo much from all of you. I have not always agreed at first with some posts, but I kept an open mind. Health questions–-I'll ALWAY listen to the more experienced B owners. Someone here says to find a vet immediately, I will be in the car within 5 minutes.

Thanks again, Comic

[myran]

1. You do not hit a dog it will not respect you only fear and mistrust you.
   2)If you can´t afford insurance to cover vet bills and other incidents in life then you should not have a dog.
2. A dog who get´s enough excercise and stimulation will not wreck your house ok there may be accidents whilst growing up but house should be puppy proofed as you do when you have child.
   I can count on my 5 fingers what my dog´s have ruined and I do not keep them crated not even when I leave the house although the time their left alone is not more then 2-3 hrs a week.
   And you should listen to the advice you´re given especially regarding the birth of puppies that was a total botch job on your part.

[sharronhurlbut]

This is why breeding a dog should not be taken as just no big deal.
The quality breeders on this forum make sure all the odds are stacked favor of a healthy bitch and healthy puppies.

[Robin_n_Jack]

Geez-

Reading both this thread and the other thread on this topic makes me honestly want to leave this site entirely.

I know tempers run hot, and everyone is very impassioned, but could you take a deep breath and put yourself in his shoes? He has obviously had a hard time of it….I know the pup did, too, but honestly, is antagonizing him like that really going to do any good?

But, by all means, keep telling him what he should have done. I'm sure that is very useful at this stage of the game.

While you are at it, why don't you let us know when you make a mistake, do something wrong, make the wrong decision, and we can all throw stones at you?

[sharronhurlbut]

Robin and Jack, this family failed the bitch and puppies they could have had.
They didn't do their homework, they didn't get her checked out and they let these puppies die.
Awful…yes, but please, who is the one who have control of the dogs under our care...WE Do and not doing right is not ACCEPTABLE.
YOU do right by your dogs or you give them up.
Failure isnt' an option and stupid on toast is totally not!

[Robin_n_Jack]

Sigh.

All I am saying is that the antagonistic attitude isn't helping.

[tanza]

@Robin_n_Jack:

Sigh.

All I am saying is that the antagonistic attitude isn't helping.

While that might be the case… sometimes people need to step up to the plate.. and in this case this is not the case....

[ComicDom1]

@Robin_n_Jack:

Geez-

Reading both this thread and the other thread on this topic makes me honestly want to leave this site entirely.

I know tempers run hot, and everyone is very impassioned, but could you take a deep breath and put yourself in his shoes? He has obviously had a hard time of it….I know the pup did, too, but honestly, is antagonizing him like that really going to do any good?

But, by all means, keep telling him what he should have done. I'm sure that is very useful at this stage of the game.

While you are at it, why don't you let us know when you make a mistake, do something wrong, make the wrong decision, and we can all throw stones at you?

You can throw all the stones at me that you want. I have no problem with that. What I do have is a problem with the health safety and welfare of the animals involved. Maybe you missed the fact that this guy attempted to mislead many people and just happened to get caught. As a result two innocent puppies are dead and the mother's health was put at risk! _To this day, we are unaware of whether or not the mother in question has received the proper follow up Vet Care!
_
Your comments certainly make me wonder where your priorities are. Do you care about what happened to the animals? Were you disturbed or outraged at the situation? If so then where is your post in regard to that?

Usually this is what happens when there is lots of drama created. From my experience Drama is usually created by people who thrive on the attention from others. When Drama like what happened here occurs, it causes people like me who care about animals to start getting curious as to what is really going on. Then people like me start looking further into the situation in an attempt to find the truth.

In my opinion, saying that these two posts want to make you leave the site is your attempt to create more drama. Apparently you are not disturbed by what happened, and only care whether or not the posts were antagonistic. This makes me wonder what value you put on the care of your dog or any other animals life. Or maybe if it just not about you or your dog, it just does not matter!

I think if I was out of line, I would have been called on it by the moderator and by a host of others who post. Since that did not happen,then maybe that is a good indication of whether the posts were antagonistic or not!

Jason

[Robin_n_Jack]

Peace. I'm out.

[tanza]

@Robin_n_Jack:

Peace. I'm out.

Which is fine.. but the point was that this person was and did admit to hitting his dogs… in a training method... and many of us were just trying to point out that this was not a good way of dealing with these types of problems...

Basenji "eat" clothes... underwear... for sure... and regardless of the age... you all might think that once they age this behavior stops.. I can tell you it doesn't and you need to remember that clothes left laying around will be the next thing eaten.... and regardless of the amout of training you try.... this is one of the things that instead of thinking "I can train them not to eat clothes" that "I need to remember to pick up after myself" is the better course of action....

No different then having children and leaving things around for them to "get into" like booze... pills... etc.... if you put them away.. the temptatation is not there.

[renaultf1]

@ComicDom1:

Your comments certainly make me wonder where your priorities are. Do you care about what happened to the animals? Were you disturbed or outraged at the situation? If so then where is your post in regard to that?

Usually this is what happens when there is lots of drama created. From my experience Drama is usually created by people who thrive on the attention from others. When Drama like what happened here occurs, it causes people like me who care about animals to start getting curious as to what is really going on. Then people like me start looking further into the situation in an attempt to find the truth.

In my opinion, saying that these two posts want to make you leave the site is your attempt to create more drama. Apparently you are not disturbed by what happened, and only care whether or not the posts were antagonistic. This makes me wonder what value you put on the care of your dog or any other animals life. Or maybe if it just not about you or your dog, it just does not matter!

I think if I was out of line, I would have been called on it by the moderator and by a host of others who post. Since that did not happen,then maybe that is a good indication of whether the posts were antagonistic or not!

Jason

Hey Jason, just because people didn't write in response to your post disagreeing with what you wrote DOESN'T MEAN THEY AGREE WITH YOU and your approach. You are very argumentative and I am guessing many didn't want to get into it with you. I know that is the reason I didn't write anything.

Personally, I agree 100% with Robin n Jack. And now that I am writing in response, here's what I was thinking when I read your post…WHO THE HECK ARE YOU to call a vet hospital to find out about their services to rat someone out to a bunch of people that you don't know, that this guy doesn't know. You aren't the authority on basenjis, vet care, or anything that I can see...but I do think you are a bully. You're in the learning phase about these dogs...just like many of us...but you seem to have forgotten that.

Yes I find the whole situation of Porthos' bitch getting pregnant and the resulting birth disturbing. But, just because the person doesn't respond back to argumentative posts about how they took care of their pet, doesn't mean he didn't take her to the vet. You don't know that any more than the rest of us do.

And just because someone doesn't agree WITH YOUR APPROACH, does not mean they don't care about the health and welfare of the pet or their own pet.

Funny about the drama bit...so someone calls you out and says that this thread really makes them want to leave the forum...and you say they are creating drama. AND YOU'RE NOT CREATING DRAMA? AT ALL?