Breeder in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania

@b5004ever It is so sad that these people who breed all kinds of Dogs have the gaul to put their children by the Roadside with Baskets of Puppies. The PA Department of Agriculture is the State's highest resource beyond the Governor to get these places investigated and shut down. Amish people are no longer considered protected by the First Amendment Freed of Speech and Religion clause. They are considered a Cult.

USDA has 3 Vets that Monitor Puppy Mills but they cannot find half of them. I gave safe harbor to a German Shepherd Dog and she got my little Dog by the scruff of her neck and I was able to free my dog because I squeezed on the GSD's Jaw and the pain from my hand made her release my dog. That was a Puppy Mill Dog. My Dog was fine but I kept the dogs separated and got the GSD a home with a guy on Long Island who was recommended by the Dog;s Owner so the Dog got a great home.

Puppy Mill dogs are line bred and that is wrong because after a few generations of that the dogs have hidden problems. It really makes me angry.

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@tanza That is a shame. Are there any reputable Breeders left in PA? PA generally is not a great state for Animal Welfare. Thoroughbred Breeders take the expensive Foal and use a less valuable Paint Mare who just had a foal to Nurse the TB Foal. The Paint Foal is left to die unless a Nursemare Foal Rescue is called to take the Paint Foal and Bottle Raise it. It is all about money.

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@antigone - not linebred, inbred.... big different. Responsible breeders line breed all the time

@antigone said in Breeder in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania:

Amish people are no longer considered protected by the First Amendment Freed of Speech and Religion clause. They are considered a Cult.
.. Puppy Mill dogs are line bred and that is wrong because after a few generations of that the dogs have hidden problems. It really makes me angry.

Amish are not a cult. Casting all Amish with a racist term is wrong. And the "no longer considered" drivel is just that. Please stop spreading nonsense. ALL religions have some areas not protected by free speech and religion clause... but no, the Amish are not excluded.

As for "line breeding".. many responsible breeders line breed. Line breeding is not the mark of a puppy mill. They do it often to avoid stud costs, but line breeding per se is not evil. No, line breeding doesn't cause hidden problems (in fact closer to the opposite) and no, not all puppy mill dogs are line bred.

last edited by DebraDownSouth

@debradownsouth There have been Lawsuits against the Amish and they are now considered a Cult. That is a fact. There is nothing racist about what I said. FYI my late Father was Jewish and my Mom is Catholic. I was raised in both Faiths so I am well educated in both Judaism and Catholocism. When we were old enough we got to decide which Faith we wanted to follow and I take elements of Both. I had a Batmitzva and I was Confirmed in the Catholic Church. We celebrated All the Holidays out of respect for the Grandparents. NO, I am not a racist and the Amish are considered a cult.

@tanza Is Line Breeding not a form of inbreeding? Line Breeding as far as I understand it is relatives being bred to relatives. Is that correct? I do not understand the difference because Inbreeding is like incest. King Tut was Inbred because the Ancient Egyptians wanted to keep the 'Blood' Pure. Tut was horribly disfigured and died at a very young age. So inbreeding is clearly not good. Please explain the difference to me.

Thanks!

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@antigone
This isn't a board about religion. Just because YOU consider them a "cult" has nothing to do with facts, laws and reality. The Amish have the same rights as any other religion.

As for line and inbreeding, is it possible for you to stick to dogs, just dogs. Especially basenjis. So much misinformation on Tut, but this is a dog board.

@antigone - Line breeding and inbreeding differs in the closeness of the breeding with related dogs, not just the fact of breeding related dogs

@tanza Thank you so very much! I did not have any idea about the difference between Line Breeding and Inbreeding. I know that inbreeding is not a good thing and I know that Thoroughbred Horses are often Line Bred to keep the Genetics of a particular Stud ongoing. Mister Prospector has so many relatives that he shows up in a huge amount of Pedigrees including my Canadian Thoroughbred Willow. My other Mare is a great grandaughter of Secretariat. The best thing about her is her Sire who was an Irish Thoroubred named 'World Stage'. When I rescue the Horses I just call the Jockey Club and give them the Tattoo Number and they send me the Papers.

I appreciate the explanation!

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@antigone - By the way not all what might be called inbreeding is not bad, depends on what the breeding is looking to gain

Thanks again. I now understand about the Line breeding, it is like keeping the same family but breed to cousins. It is like Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Eleanor Roosevelt. I do understand about inbreeding for a critically endangered Species like the Baudet du Poitou Donkey. There are maybe 50 alive and they are trying to conserve the breed by breeding them to the Mammoth Jackstock which is the Biggest Donkey in the US. They were being Conserved on a Farm in Millbrook NY and the Farm is owned by Mick Jagger. They were not successful because they all got some Virus and they had to be euthanized.

They were planning on Breeding the Jennets to the Mammoth Jackstock but they were not able to do it. I think there is ONE that is owned by a woman in MA. They stand 16 HH and their ears Lop like a Bunny. They were favored by the Popes but the Breed originated in France.

Thanks again!

Linebreeding isn't breeding to cousins. Inbreeding is not just about critically endangered breeds.

In fact if you asked 100 breeders for a definition of linebreeding, you would get a dozen different definitions... from linebreeding being any relative (ie aunt/nephew; grandfather granddaughter etc) that isn't first (mother/son, daughter/father, siblings) or closest connection. For others, like some famed geneticists, inbreeding is breeding dogs with common ancestors but no close relationship. (Lush: According to Lush, linebreeding pairs animals that are related to a specific ancestor, but which are little if at all related to each other. https://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/blog/lush-on-linebreeding)

So when you talk about inbreeding or linebreeding, it helps to discuss what you mean by either term. For the rest ... this is the basenji forum. So if interested in breeding dogs, here are some initial articles.

From AKC: https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/dog-breeding/the-art-and-science-of-breeding-better-dogs/

Kennel Club: https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/health/for-breeders/understanding-canine-genetics/inbreeding-and-health/

Inbreeding/linebreeding isn't necessarily good or bad. The truth is you can breed half-siblings, father/daughter and get MORE genetic diversity than from what looks like an outcross for generations. That is why understanding the COI (Coefficient of Inbreeding) matters. And why people like Pat and other good breeders understand the need for keeping line info, medical/health stats, and have a clue about the topic.

It isn't simple. Someone who starts studying now may have some inkling in 5 years. Making up simplistic comparisons helps no one.

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/health/for-breeders/inbreeding/

http://www.dogbreedhealth.com/a-beginners-guide-to-coi/

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