I think it depends on the dog. It is funny, but yep the bear hug has worked with both Sayblee and Cara when they were into the wilds. (Arwen never gets wild in any way… far too dignified to be like that thank you!) If bear hugs escalates or they seriously try to bite you, then it isn't working. But most do hate being restrained enough that they get it. In fact I'd rather restrain than ever use a crate for PUNISHMENT. Now if you used the crate just to make him sleep in, yeah. But bad behavior then in crate sets up a bad connection. Hope things continue to go well.
He just hates his crate. Anyone else with this problem?
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@cmd:
Smitty will go in his crate if there if food in there, but if he sees you coming up from behind, he'll high tail it out of there! Shut the door on him and he'll freak out. He won't eat if closed in and there will be food everywhere if you try. We have a complex feeding system – the old guy eats in the kitchen with us, Smitty eats in the dinning room (with his bowl in his crate, but door open) and Bonnie in her crate with the door closed (she on the other hand prefers the door closed so the other dogs don't steal her food).
Today was a typical crating morning -- put Bonnie and Smitty in their crates with a treat, gated the doorway (so the old guy couldn't get in), Bonnie laid down and Smitty whined a bit, came home 30 minutes later to him SCREAMING, could smell that he peed in his crate (even though he went out just before), I plug my ears and make him sit, then he bolts out with his uneaten treat... and now they are all asleep in my office.
I know you've done about everything that can be tried. I wish there was an easy answer….heck an answer period!
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I think getting a really good crate trained dog lays in making the crate a place they really want to be which takes time. More than the weekend that most people have between when they bring their puppy home and when they first crate it for several hours. A friend of mine that is on some of the email lists and has done a lot of rescue always emphasizes that it is really critical to make it the dog's choice to go in the crate but to make it really positive to go in. This philosophy is also very similar to the strategy used in Levels training.
I completely agree, Ivoss. Crate training, especially after a dog hates his crate, is a time-consuming, multi-step process. I've been trying to find a wonderful step-by-step webpage regarding crate training that I read a couple of years back, but have been unable to find it, darn it. :mad:
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Crate training, especially after a dog hates his crate, is a time-consuming, >>multi-step process.
WHAT??? There's no magic bullet? No simple trick that makes the panic attacks simply disappear? ARGH!!!
I am so tired.CMD, keep us posted on how you're doing. It's only been a week for us, and I'm already exhausted! I can't imagine six months of this.
Our experience is similar in that Jazz has never minded her crate. When she was a pup, she cried the first several nights, but that was more a matter of getting used to sleeping alone. The crate itself was never a problem for her.
It's her place and she loves it.Keoki is 3 mos old, and HATES the crate. And I know he came from a healthy home.
We do give treats in the crate during the day, and he has no problem going into the crate. It's once that door shuts – he gets frantic.
Every morning whatever we've used as bedding -- paper towels is about what we're down to -- is completely shredded and peed on.Today I'm going to try to put a pillow/blanket that my daughter made in the back of the crate. Maybe if it's cozier? The pillow is made of a courser fleece, stuffed with softer fleece pads. She sewed it with triple stitches, hoping it'll be a little tougher to dismantle. I'll put him in for his naps today -- which probably won't happen because he'll be in the crate
-- Hopefully, he'll like the way it feels and want to stay.Tonight I'll load the front of the crate with paper towels for shredding and peeing on, and hope he'll sleep on the pillow.
I'm not asking for a lot, am I? Just to sleep from 11:30 PM to 5:30 AM. Well, six hours may be a bit much, but I'd even settle for five for the time being~
Anyway, I'm going to have to re-double my efforts during the day to make him think his crate is the most awesome place on earth. He's such a neat pup the rest of the day, it's easy to "forgive" him for this. . . . for me anyway. Dh, who has to get up at 5:30 AM for work every day is having a more difficult time understanding, LOL.
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Crate training, especially after a dog hates his crate, is a time-consuming, >>multi-step process.
WHAT??? There's no magic bullet? No simple trick that makes the panic attacks simply disappear? ARGH!!!
I am so tired.
…I know what'cha mean! After months of trying to get Magnum comfortable in his crate when alone, I gave up and confined him to a bigger area (where he could work off some of his anxiety at being alone). We then built him a nice indoor-outdoor kennel where he feels pretty much "at home" when he's alone.
I do believe eventually crate training would have worked for Magnum, as I had been able to work up to crating him comfortably when I was home, but in a different room. We just could never seem to get past the SA when he was crated.
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Bonnie responded very well to ComfortZone spray with DAP when she was puppy. It calmed her right down and eased the transition to our house. It doesn't seem to be the case with Smitty. I've used the plug in defuser for 4 months now… of course now I'm affraid to stop using it of fear of how make it worse! Maybe I need to squirt the stuff up his nose
When ever we start to leave he runs upstairs and plops on his dog bed in the office as if to say "see, I'll be good right here and you guys can leave... really"
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Crate training, especially after a dog hates his crate, is a time-consuming, >>multi-step process.
WHAT??? There's no magic bullet? No simple trick that makes the panic attacks simply disappear? ARGH!!!
I am so tired.
…I know what'cha mean! After months of trying to get Magnum comfortable in his crate when alone, I gave up and confined him to a bigger area (where he could work off some of his anxiety at being alone). We then built him a nice indoor-outdoor kennel where he feels pretty much "at home" when he's alone.
I do believe eventually crate training would have worked for Magnum, as I had been able to work up to crating him comfortably when I was home, but in a different room. We just could never seem to get past the SA when he was crated.
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When ever we start to leave he runs upstairs and plops on his dog bed in the office as if to say "see, I'll be good right here and you guys can leave… really"
Aaawwww poor thing. Is there any way to enclose him in this area like with an expen or something??
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@cmd:
Bonnie responded very well to ComfortZone spray with DAP when she was puppy. It calmed her right down and eased the transition to our house. It doesn't seem to be the case with Smitty. I've used the plug in defuser for 4 months now… of course now I'm affraid to stop using it of fear of how make it worse! Maybe I need to squirt the stuff up his nose
QUOTE]Keoki is 4.5 mos old now and, as I've said in another post, STILL won't crate alone w/out screaming, shredding, and peeing -- I can't even put the KONG or anything in there as he won't chew it once the door latches; he'll just pee on it.
So, my question is about ComfortZone: Did you use the diffuser or the spray? And did you spray it on her bedding?
I have a feeling I have another Smitty here, but am willing to try almost anything. Jazzy needs space. -
Eek! I just looked at petsmart.com and the spray is $42/bottle???
And the only review from a customer said it didn't work.Anybody else with positive experience?
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I TOTALLY understand. Smitty STILL today peed in his crate and just last week he pooped (first time in months but he's 1 1/2!). In fact, just last week I bought the spray in addition to the defuser. Dog.com has it for $28 with free shipping over $50. I called the manufacture and they said you can use both at the same time. Just squirt 6-10 pumps on the inside of the crate…. as much as the stuff calms Bonnie down, being near by is going to knock her out! I've tried it for a couple days and so far it doesn't seem to do much for him. I'll set up the video camera again and see. I think maybe it just works on some and not others. To me it was worth a try. With Bonnie we sprayed it on a bandana and that's all it took.
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I use the DAP diffuser & I think it's helped us out quite a bit. Topaz stopped peeing & pooping in her crate. I won't stop using it now for fear that she may go back to soiling her crate.
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I'm going to try using the spray for car trips as they both get very anxious on car rides.
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Hmmm, I just noticed that I have some amitriptyline left over from last year when our cat was exhibiting odd behavior {ie, peeing every BUT the litter box even though her health check was fine}. The stuff worked great and she almost immediately started using the litter box again.
I think I'm going to call my vet and ask about trying it on Keoki. {It doesn't expire until Sept. 07}. He just saw Keoki a couple of weeks ago, so I'm hoping he doesn't insist on seeing him again. . .
I wonder how safe I'd be in just giving it to him. I don't think it's a prescription item as it can be ordered on petmeds.com .
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LOL so I went to PetCo today and bought new bedding for Keoki's crate – one blanket-type pad and actually a very cushy cat bed that I figured would give him a cozy, cuddly feeling.
He can't get near the crate. Jazzy is curled up inside and growls like a Tasmanian Devil any time Keoki gets near the door. LOL
Great. Right effect, wrong dog.
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Would it be possible that the new puppy smells Jazzy in the crate and is afraid. After all Jazzy does not like her to get near the crate, maybe she is nerveous about it b/c of Jazzy's reaction when she gets near. Just wondering!!!!
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I would try using an X-pen, possible with a cover. And retrain him to the crate. A big PIA for sure. But he is defintiely crate phobic at this point. You have to take teeny tiny baby steps. Put some kind of treat in there that he loves outside the crate, like a stuffed bone or raw bone. Lock it in there, and let him see it…talk it up. Let him in and get chewing on it. Close the door. Hopefully he will be busy chewing on it; count to 10 and open the door. Call him out with a treat. Take the chew away. Do many short training sessions per day. Have another place to put him when he needs to be confined (xpen). Once he is comfortable with the count to ten, start extending the time. Once he is comfortable with a minute or two walk out of the room, come back let him out. You get the idea....baby steps....never let him out if he starts screaming, but try to let him out while he still wants to be in with the chewie.
Good luck...and sorry...I know how bad this situation feels
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I've also had to use a bigger crate/cage to retrain dogs. It does work, but takes a bit of time.
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Dare I hope?
Last night I put Keoki into his crate all by himself, with the new bedding – a fake fleece crate pad and the cat bed pillow -- and he went right in, went to sleep, and slept quietly until 6 AM!! He didn't even fuss when I got up, but waited with waggly tail until I opened the door!
I'm afraid to get too excited, lest this be a cruel fluke, but wow~ it's exciting!!
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OOOOHHH I'm keeping our paws & fingers crossed for you & keoki
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Dare I hope?
Last night I put Keoki into his crate all by himself, with the new bedding – a fake fleece crate pad and the cat bed pillow -- and he went right in, went to sleep, and slept quietly until 6 AM!! He didn't even fuss when I got up, but waited with waggly tail until I opened the door!
I'm afraid to get too excited, lest this be a cruel fluke, but wow~ it's exciting!!
That would be great! Here's hoping!
