@zande - That is so true Zande, when you have a pack of bitches, the one "low" on the totem pole may be the last to come in heat in many cases... "want a be's" many times will come in first... depends on the pack.
Going to attempt this a second time..
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Ps: I've heard lots of vets say they aren't fans of the breed..clearly not all but most aren't a vets dream..and Oakley embodies that stigma…lucky for me my vet knows how much he means to me so hopefully that eases the "ugh" response
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@stash:
Hope all goes well for you and Oakley for the dental visit. Love the stories you have, maybe one day you will have enough for a book.
Jolanda and Kaiser
Stash: I believe at only three I have enough to fill a book, it would be similar to the "Bad Basenji" book but I'd title it as
"A first time basenji owners survival guide- you think you know but you have no idea"I'm sure that at the end of this journey (hopefully a very loooonnngg journey) I will have a great memoir for him, it will certainly be comedic!
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We don't see enough of them in my area to have much of a stigma.. but the 3 that come to my hospital (including my own) are all very easy to work with. One of my vet co-workers has owned a BRAT before and knows the breed pretty well so I am lucky ;).
Honestly.. we don't always tell clients how naughty their pets have been while in the hospital. If they were naughty to the point of trying to eat us we will say something and suggest a behaviorist or if they attempt to chew through something, etc. Just general didn't sit still or maybe needed to be muzzled for mild snapping we don't always get into. If someone like you asked because they are truly trying to better their dog I will 100% give all the details! I want clients like you and Oakley!! I'm so tired of people who simply don't care!
I'm sure all will go well for him and he will come home with shiny teeth and fresh breath! I did 4 dentals today on 3 older dogs and an older cat (one being a boxer who we have noted is sensitive to some anesthesia so we just adjust them) and all was well. Things can happen but if you trust your vet like you seem to I would not worry! Oakley is lucky to have you for a mom :).
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We don't see enough of them in my area to have much of a stigma.. but the 3 that come to my hospital (including my own) are all very easy to work with. One of my vet co-workers has owned a BRAT before and knows the breed pretty well so I am lucky ;).
Honestly.. we don't always tell clients how naughty their pets have been while in the hospital. If they were naughty to the point of trying to eat us we will say something and suggest a behaviorist or if they attempt to chew through something, etc. Just general didn't sit still or maybe needed to be muzzled for mild snapping we don't always get into. If someone like you asked because they are truly trying to better their dog I will 100% give all the details! I want clients like you and Oakley!! I'm so tired of people who simply don't care!
I'm sure all will go well for him and he will come home with shiny teeth and fresh breath! I did 4 dentals today on 3 older dogs and an older cat (one being a boxer who we have noted is sensitive to some anesthesia so we just adjust them) and all was well. Things can happen but if you trust your vet like you seem to I would not worry! Oakley is lucky to have you for a mom :).
Thank you, I prefer to know even the things people don't think are big, I request my dog walker (friend who happens to own her own dog boarding and walking business) to write me notes because it's super important I know if he was off or in a mood, snapped or even side glanced one of her dogs…I think I know Oakley pretty well, and with confinement anxiety and separation anxiety (both much improved) and fear aggression that at maturity has led to dog to dog issues; throw in some food aggression over high value items such as people food and I have a boy that's a mixed bag...he always has had the confinement and separation issues but truthfully the aggression parts developed after maturity and really only progressed after a series of unfortunate and concurrent break ins to my home by a family member...I didn't know until after the fact other than a few suspicions regarding oakley's behaviors when I came home from work a few times..it really changed him and made him leery; not a cop-out for his behaviors but I believe it had a profound impact on him in a detrimental manner..that coupled with his traumatic recovery issues after his gastrointestinal surgery..he truly hasn't been the same! But he gets better all the time and has made great progress. The hope is that when I do have a significant other in my life that Oakley can accept that and ultimately be somewhat (more) reliable so that I can start a family...
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As a side note: I know I tend to come off as cynical when it comes to the reputation of this breed but from where I stand my dog just happens to embody many of the negative prevalences that accompany this/certain breeds…aggressive,anxious...not good with (insert here)....I researched basenjis and visited breeders for years; and while I knew the naughtiness I could be getting I still believed I was going to get this puppy and have a great,well behaved dog..but what I got was more than the dog I researched..I got an Oakley- and I made so many mistakes..I've learned copious amounts and really feel "broken into" the breed...I can confidently say that while I don't think Oakley ever intended to be a good boy or the next Canine Good Citizen..I contributed a lot to his portfolio of issues, so I am 100%committed to making him a better dog. He is so great, so funny and entertaining, goofy and animated. Anyone who meets him loves him and that's what is so special to me, I love him despite all his faults.
We will get through tomorrow. Thank everyone for the advice and shared experiences, especially hearing from a tech standpoint is helpful...I will update tomorrow...
Tomorrow will be a glass of wine day for sure, at least once he gets home..lol
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SO…it didn't go awesome. I dropped him off at 10:30, got a call at 11:47 that his teeth cleaning was done and that he wasn't ready to go home but they needed me to come down because while Oakley was just coming out of anesthesia they noticed him spinning as though he had to poop, and ignored my note that the breed wakes up rough from anesthesia and to "use caution"... And opened the door to take him outside and he bit the techs hand...she assured me that it wasn't an aggressive act and he was still so totally out of it..but that they needed me to come down to help them safely get him out of his crate so they could clean him and the crate of poop...I was there in two minutes flat and he was still totally zonked, shaking etc...I could tell when I got there he was going to be fine with me so I took him out and cleaned him up myself...apologized to the tech and took a look at her hand (he has long primitive teeth as you all are aware!)...I feel bad but at the same time that's the reason I wrote the note...
His ER vet never had a problem but they also used a much more sensitive combination of anesthesia...so either this combo created a rough wake up or the ER vet never had a problem bc she gave him sufficient time to wake up before invading his space..either way, no food today at all and no water til 5..and then little bits at a time to make sure he can keep it down. He is home, crying and whining, very restless and is still gaining his sea legs....he is however licking his bum constantly...is that combined with his poop coming out of anesthesia a side effect? He just keeps licking it....
Poor pup, nothing normal at my house..he's having a rough go at it right now...I feel bad and guilty...glad to have him home. He did the best he could given all the craziness; I can't be mad at him about the bite. I truly believe it wasn't intentional..but either way it's going to hurt that tech for a few days....oof
My poor boy...anyone break the rules and feed them the same day? I'm worried not feeding him for such a duration will cause him to get sick; his belly doesn't do well without food in for extended times??
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AHH! Why did they not listen! That's so frustrating! There are things you can give them so they wake up more slowly and smoothly. Most don't need it but basenjis often do! I'm glad he's home and that the procedure itself went well.
We tell people to pick up food before midnight, they come in around 7 for blood work and pre-anesthetic exam, dental around 10-12 depending on how many we have, home by 4:30-5 and tell them to offer a small meal and a small amount of water when they get home. If they still seem hungry offer a bit more but not too much at once.
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I have never had to withhold food even when they were put under early afternoon for a procedure. Again, I would just do bland "mush" type foods and just a little at a time
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I have never had to withhold food even when they were put under early afternoon for a procedure. Again, I would just do bland "mush" type foods and just a little at a time
Thanks guys…I can't imagine no food today, his stomach can't be empty that long or he will get sick....I ended up calling in regards to the bum licking and they told me that he started pooping when coming out of the anesthesia..and that it caused him to express his left gland really well..and that he could have remembered that and is just trying to clean it..he is still doing it incessantly..it's actually bothersome. I know they said no water before five and even then really small amounts but he went to his bowl so I gave him a tiny bit a few separate times and he has been fine..is coughing from the tube..still sleepy...trying to get him to lay down with me and rest it off.
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AHH! Why did they not listen! That's so frustrating! There are things you can give them so they wake up more slowly and smoothly. Most don't need it but basenjis often do! I'm glad he's home and that the procedure itself went well.
We tell people to pick up food before midnight, they come in around 7 for blood work and pre-anesthetic exam, dental around 10-12 depending on how many we have, home by 4:30-5 and tell them to offer a small meal and a small amount of water when they get home. If they still seem hungry offer a bit more but not too much at once.
They certainly weren't denying that they didn't know better….I related the information I heard here that this tends to be a breed thing..I feel bad because I didn't want it to happen and I know her hand is going to hurt, once canine went into the palm and the other between the thumb and index finger.. I'm just glad that they know it wasn't due to aggression and that it really was their error..he didn't even realize it based on his reaction to that same tech when I was cleaning him...I truly think he was still too under to have known.
I brought them cupcakes from our local bakery so hopefully that makes up a little for the difficulty...
He was scheduled for 11am so I was able to feed him and give him water up until 11 which i did, then we got a call there were cancellations and we ended up being there for 10:30...they said he went under beautifully....just the waking up part that didn't go well. I think it would have if they left him alone but I can see that for them they saw he had to poop and were kind of stuck in a sticky situation..if it were me, I would have just let him and dealt with cleaning him and the crate up when he was with it...but lesson learned..they joked because my typed letter was a whole page long of cautions and warnings but every one of them was necessary for safety of either himself or them...and they knew it wasn't an exaggeration.
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Should I be concerned over the incessant bum licking? It doesn't smell as though he expressed himself but he is really adamant about getting to his bum and licking it…two hours later he's still going at it?
I'm beginning to think they expressed his glands and aren't telling me. On the sign off sheet it asked all these things like, do you want this or that and to the express glands question I wrote: only if they are impacted..but yes
Because lately he has been "splooging" an awful lot..but they said they can't tell unless they go in so I said, ok-nevermind, he has enough going on anyway today. But between the poop coming out of anesthesia and the hours of non stop licking I am beginning to wonder if they ended up doing it anyway (which I wouldn't be mad at)...to me that would explain the poop, the licking and I think his whining/crying is related to his bum not his gums hurting. I wouldn't be so concerned if they said they expressed them because then Id know this is him trying to make it feel better but because they didn't, I'm wondering if he needs it done right away because he's at them like its a problem..perhaps the anesthesia as procedure cause an issue with them..but my suspicions are that they were done.
What do you guys think? -
no idea about what to do with the anals, but perhaps you could offer some clear broth instead of food?
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In my experience, basenjis wake up a little rough from anesthesia no matter how good they are. I'm a tech and I have done dentals on them in the past and I make sure the vets I work with know this so they can be prepared. The last one I worked on was very good even for a B at the vet and while I was recovering him he nearly latched on to my face.. I have recovered well over 100 dogs in my career and that rarely happens! No one ever said B's follow the rules!
My Cody was always an angel at the vets and the vet even told me that he's the only B he's worked on that he fully trusts. Even he woke up rough after his back surgery and the vet called me to say "you were right.. we had to give him something to calm him down." I couldn't pick him up right away because he had to be hospitalized for a few days. Elliot has never been hospitalized and if he does have a dental someday I'll be the the one doing it ;).
All that being said.. where I work we make sure to keep records of who can't have towels in their kennel, who can't be dropped off, who needs to be picked up ASAP, etc. I'd rather a client tell me these things beforehand than be surprised by a dog eating the towel in the kennel! It's refreshing to hear so many people help out their vet by telling them this info and by not blaming the vet/staff for their pet's behavior. You wouldn't believe how many people blame us for their pet's behavior! Also vet techs LOVE LOVE LOVE when clients bring them snacks and we are the ones who have to deal with the bad behavior most of the time. One of our clients brought us cupcakes today and it was awesome ;).
You just so happened to be right on this one, I tried to warn them by putting in on my sheet of cautions and warning; even highlighted it but the warning wasn't observed…must be their sense of aloofness and being super vigilant that when they're in a state of awareness that's not good that they react first and ask questions later!
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Poor boy and poor you, not nice when they say he bit, just like Kaiser after his neuter/ umbilical op when vet was checking him, lucky vet understood he hurt Kaiser while checking him. Didn't know regarding their rough wake up, will remember for future reference. Though young vet who I dislike who checked his wound a few days later(as it looked a bit red to me) thought he was going to bite him because "he bit the other vet" made it sound like Kaiser was vicious. Don't ask to see him as he rubs me up the wrong way and thinks raw is wrong and makes me feel dumb. Think you need to get the truth about his anal glands to understand why he is licking sooo much to put your mind at peace, don't understand why they wouldn't say it was done. I also know how you feel about an empty stomach, Kaiser will produce bile that's why he gets breakfast and dinner. Hope you get your answer and his butt licking settles down.
Jolanda and Kaiser
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Anesthesia does strange things to many animals. When they are groggy it's not unusual for them to react violently to something that would normally never bother them. With horses, the drug Xylazine (Rompun) has a reputation. Experienced folks always caution "watch the back end", because normally gentle animals will often lash out when under the influence. No knowledgeable vet or tech is going to blame an animal for actions taken before the drugs wear off.
Aha, found a reference that substantiates what I wrote: Despite looking deeply sedated, the horse may kick in response to only superficial stimuli; therefore normal handling precautions are essential.
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The tech didn't seem to blame Oakley and when she told me I sort of sighed in shocked and it must have sounded like "oh crap" because she did tell me she didn't think he was being aggressive and that he was still so under the anesthesia..but even if they don't blame me..or him..I still wish it didn't happen
I know oak so well that I believe she opened the crate and either in reaching for him or as she touched him he startled out of sheer grogginess and fear over where he was, what happened to him..I do need the truth, he is still licking..not non stop but enough to permit questioning…the only reason I can think they wouldn't tell me is because I gave them that list and it clearly wasn't followed (even though I understand it was an accident)..and a negative result was caused..I think maybe they were worried to tell me they did it when I said.."don't worry about doing it, he has enough going on"...I really wouldn't be mad if they did but I need to know so I can assess normal behavior versus "we have a problem"...he's acting like a dog who was expressed....and I can't shake that truth...it certainly leads me to feel funny
He's still super tired, whining and crying some (like when he lays down)..some of that is that Oakley will milk me for all I'm worth; he's the worst patient! I have to work tomorrow but I'm going to make it a shorter day and have asked my dog walker to come check on him...still feeling guilty that he had a tough day and I'm the reason why...he's drinking well and I managed three tiny meals of wet food..
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Did you check his anals yourself to see if they are empty? Another reason for licking is if they are causing discomfort by being full. or if there is an abscess forming.
I think pointing out that animals react differently when coming out of sedation is a good thing. Owners may have an unfortunate incident with their own dog if they aren't aware of this. Never assume you won't have a problem when they are in an "altered state" mentally.
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I didn't check them myself…this morning he pooped but then twenty minutes later had a little poop coming out of his bum..I really am suspicious they were emptied by the vet...I just don't understand; even if they were full..why he hasn't reacted this way until coming out of the surgery..?? I really feel like I will call today and ask directly if they did it...to me, his reactions of licking his bum and also the way he is pooping..it all seems classic "I've been expressed"
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Have you had a good look at his anal area? A lot of licking suggests a draining abscess to me…..
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Visually it looks fine, perhaps a little tight but no leakage other than this morning….the vet tech called to ask how he was and I decided to ask "are you sure they weren't expressed?" He asked my vet who said he expressed them twice while there, once while under and then a second time when he pooped in his crate...I don't know why they didn't tell me that when I called yesterday to ask about the licking. They said to wash with warm water and soap and if tomorrow he is still licking it to bring him in and they can see if they are empty but that they should be....he isn't licking nonstop last night or today but has licked a few times..I can't tell if he's being his normal (no pun intended) anal self and focusing on something or if it's bothering him....either way I feel bad for him; last thing I want to do is bring him back to get touched...
What could a draining abscess be caused from?
