He actually does go in our other dog's crate to steal food and my wife actually caught him laying down in the bed in it. Nothing is ever impossible. We did try crating him for a short car ride and he chewed through his lead trying to escape.
Puppy neutering!
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In my own experience, vets are usually focused on keeping the population under control. Rarely do I hear from them the potential negatives of spay/neutering, only the positives. I even left one vet because I was so tired of being told to get my dog spayed when they knew I was not going to do that at the time. The vet I go to now has a more open perspective. I personally would want to wait at least to 1 year (or later), particularly for performance events. Nothing wrong with doing it at 6 months, Imo. The best we can do is reduce risk of health problems, we can't guarantee one way or the other. Do what's right for your own situation.
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Sorry our debate has become a thread hijack. Some of us just enjoy discussions. I think it is always useful to listen to multiple points of view.
It's ok! I am actually quite interested to read about this. (even if it worries me a little haha)
One thing I do want to know is if males stop marking their territory after being neutered. I've mostly had females, so I am a little confused about male behaviour sometimes!
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My girls have always been more into territorial marking than my boys! One of my bitches…...the one spayed the earliest, although after her first heat......was bad for marking. If I took her into an unfamiliar house, I had to watch her like a hawk! She also loved intact males, and would treat neutered males as female......and she didn't like girls!!
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Really? I've always heard males mark more that females… I am learning so many things!! haha
Well Zorro wasn't marking before I posted this thread. But he has just started! Since my boyfriend has left on his trip (about a week ago), Zorro has peed three times on the couch and once on my bed. Which made me want him to be neutered even more, since I thought it might help... -
Not all inappropriate peeing is marking.
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@Ana:
Since my boyfriend has left on his trip (about a week ago), Zorro has peed three times on the couch and once on my bed.
What were the circumstances when he peed? (had he been out recently, was he upset about anything, did you see him do it or just find the evidence?)
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What were the circumstances when he peed? (had he been out recently, was he upset about anything, did you see him do it or just find the evidence?)
Well usually its while he is doing his B-500 around the house, then he jumps on the couch and pees. And I had taken him out maybe maximum one hour before he did this.
When he did it on the bed he was also excited, but I think its because one of my guy friends who was over to pick up a chair I was giving him. Zorro was running around him and all of a sudden ran in my bedroom, jumped on my bed (he never jumps on my bed) and peed in front of me. -
@Ana:
Well usually its while he is doing his B-500 around the house, then he jumps on the couch and pees. And I had taken him out maybe maximum one hour before he did this.
When he did it on the bed he was also excited, but I think its because one of my guy friends who was over to pick up a chair I was giving him. Zorro was running around him and all of a sudden ran in my bedroom, jumped on my bed (he never jumps on my bed) and peed in front of me.At his age, you just missed the fact that he needed to go out after the B-500… they, especially the boys, forget... and when they remember, too late for the human. You need to remember after such a run, regardless when the last time he was out, chances are he needs to pee again. And to stop the bed peeing... shut the door!
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To me that sounds more like over excitement than marking. My current boy has occasionally "lost it" when he got way too wired about something going on, although that hasn't occurred for some time. Usually when we had this problem…....and it wasn't confined to peeing, either......he was "beside himself", just totally wound up and frustrated about something.
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I also think the situation you described is far more likely excitement than marking. One of the rules of thumb with house training is to take them out frequently during hard play because they will forget. Also, this is the age, I have had boys wear themselves out so much that they pee in their sleep.
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I usually keep a baby gate up for my bedroom, that way he can't get in there. Problem is, when he does his B-500, I usually don't have time to get him out again for his pee. He zips around like a mad dog and just stops for about five seconds to pee and off he goes again. But I think he does get over excited sometimes.
Well I think watching him like a hawk is in order. If it isn't marking, I am glad! -
Another reason I find boys so funny….it's all about the moment and then whoops! Been there, gone through that...
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Another reason I find boys so funny….it's all about the moment and then whoops! Been there, gone through that...
Exactly!!!!!
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Another reason I find boys so funny….it's all about the moment and then whoops! Been there, gone through that...
Haha, they are funny!! I don't think I have had this much entertainment from a dog… EVER
For some reason, even if he has his "oops" moments, I can't be mad for more than a few seconds! He just looks so clueless!!
I just hope he will keep his personality after I get him neutered!! I wouldn't change that for anything! -
I don't use pain meds because I feel that if they feel a bit of pain, they will on their own slow down their movements…. if for some reason they are having extreme paid or they have a lower pain level, I will use for the first day or two.
Been a bit busy, not going to post research but will say this. I totally disagree with this. I think it is inhumane whether done to animals or humans. Beyond that, every single study has shown that mammals, humans and dogs included, heal faster when not in pain.
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The truth is, most vets (do a poll, call 10 in your area) don't know SQUAT about new research (last 10 yrs even) on effects of spay neutering. Read for an hour, make some calls and, like nutrition, you'll be sad to find you know as much as the typical vet does.
Here are facts. Nothing bad happens to a male dog not neutered before 14 mos. But bone cancer might for younger neuters. Male dogs, particularly dalmatians, can have SEVERE issues from early neutering. Do I support rescues neutering young? I think it is unforgivable to release a rescue dog that isn't neutered. But I hate hate hate hate that people have neutering shoved down their throats without being given the information to make a decision.
We don't have an ultimate answer, but I resent vets and others pushing it and not educating and letting people decide. Read, learn, decide. But know there is no right/wrong. And also know that in Europe, where spay/neuter not as common, have no more pet overpopulation. Irresponsible ownership is more to blame for overpopulation than possessing reproductive organs.
Want a good balance article about the topic.. try these by Christie Keith:
http://www.doggedblog.com/doggedblog/2006/05/its_just_that_t.html
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2010/04/06/petscol040610.DTL
Longevity (there are a couple of newer ones but I need to get off here.. they support this.. ovaries in bitches equals LONGER not shorter lives)
http://www.gpmcf.org/respectovaries.htmlhttp://www.cancer.umn.edu/research/programs/peccc/c3dec02.html
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Wow, some of the statements that have been made are pretty bold. Granted, its pretty easy to do a search and read on the internet but we already know that it is very difficult get in to Vet school, hard to qualify for it, and difficult to complete it. With that being said, we really do not feel that it is right for anyone to make a general statement about what most vets know and what most vets do not know.
We certainly do not think anyone is shoving anything down anyone's throat. Is there someone out there forcing people to say yes to neutering? We do not think so. We still happen to believe that the owner can say yes or no. Although some owners make that choice by prior agreement with a breeder, they still have the choice before they get a dog from that breeder. Same goes for rescue. Now we will not make a statement for all rescues, but at least with Brat, people are made aware that the dog they receive will be spayed or neutered.
Yes, there those that do not want to neuter or spay their animals. We all know this. We also know that backyard breeders and puppy mills still seem supported by somebody. For them to exist someone has to buy the animals they produce which means there are some intact dogs where the owner may or may not have considered neutering or spaying a dog.
Doesn't it all come down to the owner taking responsibility for their own dog. The owner taking the initiative to educate themselves instead of relying on others to dig up and post information to make it easy for them.
We agree there are pros, and cons in regard to this subject. We also agree we are just members on this forum posting our opinions based on our experiences. We believe that unless you know better, that maybe you should put your trust in someone who has completed the education in veterinary medicine until they prove untrustworthy. To us chat forums are a lot like people who are arm chair quarterbacks that watch Monday Night Football, Of course we include ourselves in this view.
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We certainly do not think anyone is shoving anything down anyone's throat. Is there someone out there forcing people to say yes to neutering? We do not think so.
Really, where have you been the last 5-10 years. Absolutely, there are people, like practically every county in Southern California and many in other states that are doing exactly that. Mandating spay/neuter by 4 months old even though there is plenty to suggest that is not in the best interest of the animal. There are plenty of vets towing the line of the AR and willing to say that there is no reason not to spay/neuter everything with 4 legs by 4 months old. Just like there are plenty of vets saying yearly vaccines are the way to go when there is heaps of data saying just the opposite.
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In MA there are many vets that push to spay or neuter and also to vaccinate. I for one just had to have the discussion with my vet that this year I was NOT going to vaccinate for Lyme. Last year I did and since then I have researched and looked into the effectiveness of the vaccine and also really took a look at Oakleys risk factors and practices I can do to lessen his chances for contracting the disease. Luckily I found a vet who, while suggests it also knows that I am informed enough that my decision was not in haste. I can say with confidence I am familiar with vet practices in my area because I myself am contemplating going back to school to become a vet so I have familiarized myself with vets in my area…if you are just a lamen dog owner then it is easy to rest on the "knowledge" your vet teaches you and often enough they go with what they seem to be the "safe route" which is the precautionary route with everything...they vaccinate for very thing in hopes that nothing happens and neuter ASAP to prevent puppies as a result of a "not careful enough" owner. I always gt the vibe that vets get uncomfortable when an owner is educated an very well informed, it certainly isn't the norm around the east coast. Even my vet isn't used to having to discuss titering rather than just giving the shot. My old vet couldn't understand why I wanted to know if ALL of Oakleys growth plates were closed before I decided on neutering him...it was a hassle just to get information...
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Really, where have you been the last 5-10 years. Absolutely, there are people, like practically every county in Southern California and many in other states that are doing exactly that. Mandating spay/neuter by 4 months old even though there is plenty to suggest that is not in the best interest of the animal. There are plenty of vets towing the line of the AR and willing to say that there is no reason not to spay/neuter everything with 4 legs by 4 months old. Just like there are plenty of vets saying yearly vaccines are the way to go when there is heaps of data saying just the opposite.
Just because a bill was passed that mandated certain things in Southern California does not mean those mandates exist everywhere.
We do not dispute that you are familiar with the mandates where you live. We also know its a personal choice to decide where to live. Don't you and others have an opportunity to oppose a bill before it becomes a mandate if you did not agree with it? Aren't there processes for getting mandates and laws changed if you do not agree with them?
Is it better to euthanize animals/dogs to control population?
This link from the web sheds some light on whats going on with the existing mandate at least in LA County?
http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogblog/2010/01/los-angeles-mandatory-spayneuter-year-2.html
We are not going to drag the vaccine issue into this thread because the discussion had to do with neutering.
