Sinking of Cesar
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  • Here is a link to a story indicating some decline in Cesar Millan's theories of training.

    http://petsadviser.com/news/cesar-millan-critics/

    I'm open minded, but I prefer a reward based or clicker training method.

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  • R

    Sorry to dsagree with you,Fran
    My basenjis say, CLICK THIS !
    No clicker training here.
    I do use food rewards.

    Kathryn

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  • @Rocky1:

    Sorry to dsagree with you,Fran
    My basenjis say, CLICK THIS !
    No clicker training here.
    I do use food rewards.

    Kathryn

    I didn't really say that I agreed or disagreed. :) Each person gets to make up their mind on which form of training to use. I simply posted the story. I use concepts and ideas from MANY trainers and forms of training.

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  • @Rocky1:

    Sorry to dsagree with you,Fran
    My basenjis say, CLICK THIS !
    No clicker training here.
    I do use food rewards.

    Kathryn

    Are you in support of his training methods?

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  • R

    Pat,
    Although I think that Cesar's methods for the most part
    would not work on a basenji, I do think that he gets the job
    done with other breeds.
    I think most basenjis would give him te finger (paw) if you like.
    Most people are to soft on dogs when it comes to training,just the
    way most people are today in disciplining there children.
    I train horses for a living,so my views are different that most people.
    I do get the job done and my horses/dogs all love and respect me.
    Ialso have two grandaughters that know that grandma doesn't play
    around.
    Horses,dogs and children all must respect you,or you have a problem,
    Period.

    Kathryn

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  • @Rocky1:

    Horses,dogs and children all must respect you,or you have a problem,
    Period.

    Bingo! Respect is the magic ingredient so often missing these days. I also train horses as well as dogs. You certainly don't need 1000 pounds of
    "I don't want to!" And of course respect goes both ways. If you don't respect and trust your animal, he won't respect and trust you!

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  • R

    I currently train Appendix Quarter Horses who are Under Saddle Horses.
    I've also trained thoroughbreds and standardbreds for the track.
    I've raised all the horses I train and they are my babies,but they also know
    that there is a thin line,andthey don't cross it.
    Same with my basenjis,they all love me but, know that they must not cross the
    line.
    My dogs and horses are my life and I wish that everyone could have the same
    relationship that I have with my animals.
    Unfortunately,some people let there dogs walk all over them and it is one of the
    reasons that the shelters are FULL of throwaways.
    As far as children go,they need to get back to the old ways,and not let them get away
    with murder.

    Kathryn

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  • No, the shelter is full of throw away animals because people believe that there is a magic solution that will fix their problems without them doing any work. When they find out that is not true, they often choose to dump the animal rather than put the time into fixing the problem. TV shows that make it appear that in just few easy steps any problem can be fixed only contribute to the problem.

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  • IMO every dog is different. One method, or trick, may work with one dog, but not another. You try a method you like and adjust it to the dog itself. If you are too forward with a dog that is shy, you can look for problems. Pushing certain dogs in situations that make them extremely uncomfortable only inhibits the dog. Conversly, if you are too soft on a pushy dog, you don't get anywhere. So, again, IMO one method may work, or, it may not. You have to be able to work with the personality of the dog. Not just expect a method to work because you think 'the breed' exhibits a certain tendency towards a specific behaviour.

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  • Kathryn, we have a lot in common. I've never trained race horses, although a friend has and I have exercised some for her, but I have raised and trained Arabians, one in particular that I took entry level eventing and also some schooling dressage. All my horses are very light in hand, and they know about that line you mentioned…...and seldom attempt to cross it. However, we are all getting old at this point. My "geriatric ward" consists of three horses, the oldest 35 this year, the youngest 26. :) I am open to all training methods, but use the lightest touch I can to achieve the results I require. With horses, a lack of respect is simply dangerous. With little dogs, it is more of a nuisance, but as you say, ill mannered dogs end up in shelters through no fault of their own. As far as children are concerned......here's an interesting article in my local paper today on the subject.

    http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/1126210–french-mothers-are-calmer-bringing-up-bebe-by-pamela-druckerman

    "children raised in a firm and friendly way should bring pleasure to all — themselves, maman et papa, other parents in the playground, fellow diners in restaurants, shoppers, anyone they meet in the daily course of life."

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  • @lvoss:

    No, the shelter is full of throw away animals because people believe that there is a magic solution that will fix their problems without them doing any work. When they find out that is not true, they often choose to dump the animal rather than put the time into fixing the problem. TV shows that make it appear that in just few easy steps any problem can be fixed only contribute to the problem.

    I fully agree

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  • I think anyone looking to a TV show to tell them how to train their dog…...or their kids for that matter......is being unrealistic in the extreme. No matter what method is being touted. Dog ownership is a responsibility that many are not prepared to take on, particularly those who acquire a pet on a whim without research and thought. Sincere pet owners try to work through problems and get help if they find themselves dealing with problems they can't handle. IMHO, of course. TV shows are entertainment, seldom education.

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  • First Basenji's

    @Rocky1:

    Sorry to dsagree with you,Fran
    My basenjis say, CLICK THIS !
    No clicker training here.
    I do use food rewards.

    Kathryn

    If clicker training is done correctly, it will work. If it works for elephants, dolphins, horses, cats, it will work on Basenjis…........albeit, when administered correctly. Uzie took to it immediately....all obedience and many 'tricks' (playing dead is so cute!) Many videos and books for the instructions.

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  • R

    I'm sure clicker training can work for some.
    I preder to use other methods that have worked for
    me or over 35 years.
    I'm from the old school and think the old ways and
    some of my own methods work the best FOR ME.
    I would like to think I'm right as one of the most titled
    obedience basenjis was started training with me and she was
    a tough dog to train.
    I speak of Quitas Bonga who was oneofthe first to get a UDX
    in both the US ad Canada.
    Of course, some on this forum are to young to know this.

    Kathryn

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  • Clicker training is excellent for teaching new behaviours. IMHO It has nothing to offer for behaviours already known (except possibly to sharpen them up or indicate what level of performance will be rewarded), or for disobedience. It is simply a very effective way of marking the behaviour you are willing to reward, and once the behaviour is on cue, you put the clicker away until you wish to teach a different behaviour.

    Clicker training has its limitations for training at a distance or for training certain things to certain species, e.g. most horse training for mounted work involves negative reinforcement. What is required is far easier to convey by the use of pressure and release of pressure (rein signals, leg pressure), which will reduce to a subtle cue in a well trained animal. I have clicker trained horses to do liberty behaviours, but would find it awkward for under saddle work, although I do use marker words which indicate that a reward will be forthcoming for the performance. Those using clickers with horses also seem to be relying on more conventional means as well.

    Most dog "clicker trainers" don't advocate throwing the leash away, either, which if you are doing pure clicker training would pretty much be a requirement. Gentle leaders, et al, are negative reinforcement tools, as is a leash. If you were a purist, it would be difficult to imagine how you would exercise your dog in a city with leash laws, although it should be possible to train him never to put any pressure on the leash at all. Anyone here done that with their Basenji? :)

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  • Most clicker trainers would actually say they are Least Invasive Minimally Aversive (LIMA) trainers.

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  • Clicker training worked wonderfully with my boy. I potty trained him with a clicker and he caught on sooooo fast. I would recommend it to anyone.

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