AS DonC says,"the question of whether they WANT to...". I had one that after about a mile would lay down on his side and refuse to move. More than once did I have to carry that pain the butt Basenji, on my shoulders native style, home.
Basenji Intellegence
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The Border Collie Vs the Basenji was exactly what I had started to write about but wasn't sure if I could pad it out to 1500 words. A friend has lent me just about EVERY book on BCs. (I'm not a quick reader). I like the idea of a BC (or similar) being bred to follow commands from one leader and therefor may need 'leading' to solve problems etc.
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I think in dogs, we usually equate speed of obedience with intelligence. Can you imagine if we did this in humans? Does anyone really think an athletic/able-bodied person is smarter than someone who isn't?
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Another example of Basenji intelligence and problem-solving is in Member Introductions: Chaos. Any dog who can teach a small human to do something that is advantageous to the dog is pretty smart, in my book.
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@AJs:
Another example of Basenji intelligence and problem-solving is in Member Introductions: Chaos. Any dog who can teach a small human to do something that is advantageous to the dog is pretty smart, in my book.
And he did it without using candy too.
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I've only just read the Chaos introduction. That's brilliant. I do think they far 'out smart' most other dog breeds. Cunning little creatures!!
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My husband and I just laugh at people who say basenjis are dumber than labs. They are the ignorant ones who obviously don't know much at all about the breed. Corky is the smartest dog either of us have ever known let alone owned. He knows exactly how to get away with things and he knows how to charm us when he doesn't. What lab can do that?
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Vicki what course are you doing?it sounds interesting
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Another quality of an intelligent dog (in my opinion) is how easily they can get bored.
This is something that I have seen very similar between Border Collies and Basenjis. You need to keep them stimulated mentally, otherwise they turn destructive. The core difference between the two breeds is independence. Basenjis like to be on their own (leadership wise) and Border Collies look forward to being told what's next.
Having lived with both breeds, I can tell you that both Border Collies and Basenjis pick up on emotion very well. They know when we're upset, happy, anxious, etc, and they react to that emotion. I really think they are much more aware of their surrounding, perhaps why you see anxiety issues with both breeds (I've read more about it with Basenjis though).
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Kananga - I totally agree with you about both breeds being similar in their need for mental stimulation. I have seen too many results of Border Collies having to live boring (to them) lives leading to them being not only destructive but aggressive and landing up in Rescue.
Popele see them doing bright intelligent things and think what a lovely dog and are not warned by their breeders that they need stimulating activity.
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couple of sites you guys might be interested in
www.leerburg.com has a forum and the site owner sell training DVDs for obedience, sport and working dog owners.
www.workingdogforum.com is also a forum for sport and protection k9s as well as therapy dogs
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I have to admit I'm really impressed with Leerburg for posting this:
http://leerburg.com/markers.htm -
Vicki what course are you doing?it sounds interesting
Hi Shelley
The course is called Think Dog. It was originally written by John Fisher but Sarah Whitehead has rewritten it. It's a distance learning course which should only take 6 months or so to complete. I started it 8 YEARS AGO!!! I finished 5 out of the 7 modules within 4 months but one thing after another (moving house, adding Bs to our life etc etc) meant I never got it finished.
I finally decided this year to dig it out of the cupboard again and complete it.
It has changed a hell of a lot since I started it (not sure for the better). It's been an OK course to do but I'm sure there are better ones. -
I was thinking about Zelda's vocabulary this morning, and decided to make an update here for the record. Note I do not think any of this is extraordinary, it's just what it is, and Listeme and I have a tremendous and growing interest in training and we're having a blast with Zelda.
Age: just over 12 weeks.
Techniques:
- Clicker marker; tiny treats cut from: store treats, cheese, hot dog, pizza (for extra-special); verbal praise ("good girl", "yay!"); pets and caresses
- Verbal marker for correction: "uh uh uh", "no", "quit", "off", "leave it", and imitation of a puppy scream (to deter biting), imitation of pack leader growl (to deter face biting, face jumping). We're concentrating on "leave it", since it seems like an important one for a puppy's safety.
Words she knows and (almost) always responds appropriately (if used in context):
- Zelda
- No
- Place (her bed or any dog mat/dog towel in any room)
- Touch (outstretched hand tapped with her nose, no teeth)
- Outside? Go outside? Outside!
- Dinner, hungry
- Nite-nite, bedtime
Words she is learning:
- Leave it, quit, uh uh uh
- Wanna…?
- Where's your...?
Words we're starting to work on:
- Come
- Say hello (paw wave)
She has a really great temperament and personality! She entertains herself now for up to an hour at a time without getting in trouble. She begs to go out for poop, but will occasionally (very rarely really) sneak a pee in a corner. If we're watching carefully enough we recognize the behavior in time.
We don't have a fenced-in yard and it's winter, so getting her out for enough exercise has been a challenge. Last night she went to bed (crate) before she was really tired, so we got her back out again and let her run the Basenji 500 for half an hour. At a certain point she just turned and walked toward the crate very softly.
The biggest deterrence problem right now is her interest in mauling the cat. It's just play, but the cat has been hurt once. So we are reintroducing them gradually, concentrating on gentle treatment. I think she'll transition naturally as she outgrows the puppy phase (cross fingers).
More later!
Edited to add: another command we're working on is "Trade." We use this to offer a preferred toy in exchange for an item she has purloined
such as yarn, masking tape, a plastic fork, food packaging, etc., etc., etc. Or I should say, we hope the exchange is preferred. -
Sounds like Zelda is doing realy well
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I see this ranking quoted so often, that I finally decided I needed to go to the source.
Stanly Coren's The Intelligence of Dogs. I found it in a used Book Store, and just started reading it this Tuesday.
I'm not far into it, but I see that he discusses multiple intelligences in dogs, and the rankings are only for Working/Obedience Intelligence.
We all know our B's need to be very motivated to be obedient, so it does not surprise me at all that they rank low on this type of Intelligence.
I will know more about his methods when I have read further. -
Love the link to the bomb-sniffing basenji article. I'd say we're safe until terrorists start tucking squirrels alongside the bombs.
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People who don't actually HAVE basenjis can say what they want but we all know the truth about their intelligence. My Abbey tries to sneak or snatch what she wants but if she can't get whatever it is she wants she carefully studies the situation, formulates a plan, and in due time she carries out her plan. Now that's real intelligence.
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Have just read this interesting thread.
I have owned Dobes for more years than I care to remember and a Basenji for 2 years.
It's fun watching how differently the 2 breeds go about things. Dobes are very people orientated and look to you for guidence etc, a senistive breed that many underestimate because they are deemed by some to be a fierce guarding breed. There are a few now competing in Sch in the UK, and successfully too. It is said that a GSD will go into a burning building without question, a Dobe will ask you why !!!!! lol :).
Now the Basenji on the other does things because he has deemed it in his best interest to do so !!!!! He doesn't look for you for support or guidence, I love their independant spirit.
I witnessed this the other day:- my oldest Dobe girl decided she wanted her vet bed to suck so she went into the kitchen to bring it out into the lounge. She had to get it tho the door, so she pulled it under the door ( there's a step there ) and got it stuck no matter how hard she pulled the door was closing on it good and fast. After alot of effort she give up, huffed and puffed a bit and flung herself on the sofa. All the the while Cooper the Basenji had been watching this with great interest. Obviously he had to have a go. So round the door he went and a saw the vet bed being pulled back from under the door, he then proceeded to drag it round the kitchen table, under the chair nearest the door and out tho the door with ease. Being the Gentleman he is lol !!!!! he placed it by the Dobe !!!!! then promptly went back from where he came and fell asleep.
Now that was clever !!!!!:)
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I always tell people these are 'thinking' dogs. They will think about something and evaluate it and figure it out and then attempt it. I'm sure I have told this story before, but when I first moved out to the country, Shadow, my oldest B, was out on a clothesline on a chain for a run. We didn't have a fenced area that first year. I told my (dumb, dumb, dumb) husband NOT to show him where the chickens were. (About 100 yards back, maybe more as I'm not a good judge of lenth, from the house in the barn) He decided it was a smart thing to do and proceeded to show Shadow where they were. It took Shadow two weeks to figure out how to get OFF the chain (no, it wasn't broke, he figured out how to unlatch it) and run the chickens down. Man, I yelled at my husband that day, he never did anything THAT stupid again. Shadow also knows how to open doors and cupboards, and now gates as well. Those little utensils they call paws are amazing!
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I always think intelligence depends on the individual dog and what each persons idea of intelligence is. Maya is very trainable and obedient which some people might think of as intelligent, but she is not sly or sneaky to get what she wants like some, and we tried one of those "intelligence test" activities for dogs at Crufts and she got bored after about 2 mins and moved on without working out how to get the treat!
