@matt_dl That is good to hear ! I think there are puppies in the North of UK. The demand last year meant some people bred imported dogs to get on the band wagon, maybe. Anyway there are many first time breeders with possible un-health tested breeding pairs. Do make sure the parents are health test by OFA for Fanconi and PRA at the very least. And that they are registered with our Kennel Club.
Basenjis for sale
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I got a response, too (I'd say BYB):
…The female's akc name is hilas mystical light, the sire is WLS todd...
(I was afraid of that, the WL line is heavily linked with fanconi!):(
Did you tell her that his line is linked?
How sad that he was bred at this time, with all the info. available.
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Even sadder that she did the breeding prior to doing any health testing. She now has puppies on the ground almost ready to go to new homes and still doesn't know the results of the parents let alone have the puppies tested. No buyer should accept a puppy from untested parents without seeing the puppy's own test results. That will take an additional 4-6 weeks so pups will be 12-14 weeks old.
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Even sadder that she did the breeding prior to doing any health testing. She now has puppies on the ground almost ready to go to new homes and still doesn't know the results of the parents let alone have the puppies tested. No buyer should accept a puppy from untested parents without seeing the puppy's own test results. That will take an additional 4-6 weeks so pups will be 12-14 weeks old.
Yes, but sadly who in the general population has a clue? Sometimes the only information they have is what they are told by the breeder, and if you have a bad breeder….... the cycle continues.
Like this young lady. She apparently bought a cute dog, was given limited information, I would guess didn't have a spay clause in the contract, if there even was a contract, and thought it'd be fun to have puppies.
Most people don't think to research a breed before buying. I mean,
honestly, I wouldn't have researched Basenjis a whole lot if I hadn't simply stumbled on information while looking for a local breeder. If I stumbled on a site that had great information that clued me on as to what to ask about and look for in a breeder. I was just looking for someone to buy a dog from, which is what most people are doing. -
I am sorry but the information is posted all over the place. It is on the websites of responsible breeders, it is on the BCOA website, it is on affiliate club sites. If the general public is going to buy a dog they should do their research. The majority of inquiries that I get the people know to ask so actually there are LOTS of people doing at least some amount of research even if it is only visiting a couple of websites.
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One of the things that I find amazing is how many people actually want to breed their dog. Having really gotten to know some breeders, the responsibility of it all just seems overwhelming to me. Even done half-a$$ed (without research, planning, testing, visits from prospective buyers, waiting lists etc.), it is still a ton of work, care, and responsibility. I just can't imagine not feeling responsibility to do it right.
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A Google search for "basenji puppies" or "basenji puppy" lists the BCOA website as the third and fourth in the search. A search for "basenji breeders" lists the BCOA as first and second. In just a few clicks, anyone looking for a Basenji could have all the information they need to find a healthy puppy. The problem isn't the lack of information available or the degree of difficulty finding the info but rather the desire for a person to have a puppy NOW. They bypass or ignore the BCOA and head right to puppyfind, nextdaypets, or kajiji. Kathy of Khani's Basenjis advertises on puppyfind and quite frankly I wish more responsible breeders used these types of sites to advertise. When a potential buyer reads one of Kathy's ads where it is obvious that she is an intelligent, responsible breeder then the buyer reads one of "Ms Backyard Breeder" ads that shows their ignorance or lack of concern about breeding, it makes some people think. Competitive advertising like this (regardless of whether you have puppies or not) shows the difference between ethical and unethical breeders and can lead the potential buyer to a person who can further educate them.
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I agree with Robyn. When my husband, who wanted a Basenji NOW, started looking he just happened upon an ad in the paper and went and talked to the breeder. He didn't know anything about basenjis other than the fact that I wanted one. I called her breeder and started asking about testing and found out that none had been done, she was a byb. I loved that little dog till the end of her short life. When I started looking for another basenji after she passed away I was armed to the teeth with info but it was difficult to find a breeder with puppies and also difficult for me to wait it out. I found my girl's breeder on one of the sites mentioned. She is from a legit breeder who did not have puppies available at that moment but was able to give me a ball park time and info about the parents and their testing so I did more research and googled the kennel name, went to Infodog to find out how the dam and sire placed, went to the Zande database and then finally to the OFFA database and did searches on the kennel name in all those places. I think most people wouldn't go through all that. I found out about all the above mentioned sites from this forum. Something else I SHOULD have done is go to more shows and observe the dogs in the ring and talk to the owners/handlers AFTER the show. I didn't know how focused one needs to be before going into the ring (I do now) and felt put off by some of the basenji folks. I also recommend that breeders advertise on these sites and be friendlier and more forthcoming to folks without dogs that are standing ringside-they could be a person who is interested in showing and looking for a show puppy like I was. I really would have appreciated it if some of the folks I had tried to talk to had just explained their need to focus and asked me to wait until after they were done in the ring…..
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I am so very lucky to have a husband that comes with me to dog shows. This is a real luxury and one that I appreciate. While I am stressing out about going in the ring and making sure the dogs are ready, he is the one that answers people's questions and makes sure that they are not left feeling unwelcome.
Another thing that I did was I had business cards printed and always have them in my show bag and lure coursing gear. If I can't chat with a person, I can at least make sure they get a business card with my contact information. The Basenji Club of Nothern California also has business cards which I keep on hand which has links to the club and rescue. These are so convenient and easy to hand out when someone asks for information.
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Thanks Robyn.
You have the point.
Most people would not spend the money that I spend on advertising.
It doesn't have to be them reading the difference in the words…
just look at their puppies with worm-filled bellies is more than enough for someone to one a nice well-bred HEALTHY and pretty puppy!I also agree with Lisa that the information is everywhere, thanks to Pat for posting on every available site there is with BCOA/fanconi information.
Once the test became available, people that inquire regularly ask about falconis so even if they don't have the word right, they remember there is something to watch out for!A Google search for "basenji puppies" or "basenji puppy" lists the BCOA website as the third and fourth in the search. A search for "basenji breeders" lists the BCOA as first and second. In just a few clicks, anyone looking for a Basenji could have all the information they need to find a healthy puppy. The problem isn't the lack of information available or the degree of difficulty finding the info but rather the desire for a person to have a puppy NOW. They bypass or ignore the BCOA and head right to puppyfind, nextdaypets, or kajiji. Kathy of Khani's Basenjis advertises on puppyfind and quite frankly I wish more responsible breeders used these types of sites to advertise. When a potential buyer reads one of Kathy's ads where it is obvious that she is an intelligent, responsible breeder then the buyer reads one of "Ms Backyard Breeder" ads that shows their ignorance or lack of concern about breeding, it makes some people think. Competitive advertising like this (regardless of whether you have puppies or not) shows the difference between ethical and unethical breeders and can lead the potential buyer to a person who can further educate them.
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Did you tell her that his line is linked?
How sad that he was bred at this time, with all the info. available.
I did tell her, here is what she said:
"I just got her fanconi test in today and she was neg/normal so she is not likely to pass on fanconi no matter what dog she is bred to. The OFA and other fanconi tests are still just research projects so there are no for sure tests but i recomend every basenji owner still send in DNA to promote genetic testing."
I am assuming she means she had the bitch tested… Is it true if she is negative she cannot pass Fanconi on to a litter even if the male is a carrier?
Also, I am still leary about this one because she didn't use the term "clear." Furthermore, she says OFA is a "research project."
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The dam is now on the OFA website and did test Probably Clear so she will not produce any Affected puppies. If she is not testing the stud dog then she should be testing the puppies though because they can be Carriers and if she is not selling on Limited Registration with spay/neuter contracts then the owners need to to know that their puppies could produce Fanconi.
Her statement is one that sounds like she doesn't fully understand health testing and how it is used. She has done no other testing so can not say whether her bitch has normal hips, eyes, thyroid, patellas.
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There are reputable and what are considered responsible breeders that talk about breeding and will have NO problem telling folks that breeding OFA Fair is okay even if there is lots of it (in the pedigree, as in multiple generations and HD produced by these dogs) because you can't predict the hips and it is all a joke anyways.
Until a better system is found this IS what we have, it IS available, and ALL responsible breeders should be testing all breeding stock with the minimum of Fanconi, Hips and Eyes. Adding in Elbows, Patella and Thyroid is a huge plus to the future of the breed.
There is NO excuse for this gal breeding untesteds… it is HIGHLY IRRESPONSIBLE, regardless if you are a "show" breeder or not!
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From the OFA website:
"The hip grades of excellent, good and fair are within normal limits and are given OFA numbers."
A "fair" hip rating means that the dog is free of dysplasia and there is no reason why this rating should be prevent an animal being used for breeding.
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From the OFA website:
"The hip grades of excellent, good and fair are within normal limits and are given OFA numbers."
A "fair" hip rating means that the dog is free of dysplasia and there is no reason why this rating should be prevent an animal being used for breeding.
I disagree a bit with this… especially if there are many "fairs" in the pedigree.. or in offspring... My Ortho Vet.. breeding of Irish Setters among other breeds would also disagree with you... Crossing them to excellent and lines with all excellent/good is OK.. for the most part, but to cross them on other lines with fairs.. is not the best practice
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If you are looking at a single Fair rating in a family that may be true but not when you are looking at a family of basenjis that has a large cluster of Fairs and even dysplastic relatives. Of course, even a dog with a Good rating in that sort of family will still be a higher risk than a Fair from a family with no history of dysplasia.
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I agree and to further elaborate, this is what the OFA has to say about breeding "fairs":
"Do not ignore the dog with a fair hip evaluation. The dog is still within normal limits. For example; a dog with fair hips but with a strong hip background and over 75% of its brothers and sisters being normal is a good breeding prospect. A dog with excellent hips, but with a weak family background and less than 75% of its brothers and sisters being normal is a poor breeding prospect. "
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These are OFA's recommeded breeding practices for HD. In basenjis 23.5% are Excellent. Average for this breed is Good or better so even though Fairs are normal they are worse than Average for our breed.
OFA's Recommended Breeding Principals
Breed normals to normals
Breed normals with normal ancestry
Breed normals from litters (brothers/sisters) with a low incidence of HD
Select a sire that produces a low incidence of HD
Replace dogs with dogs that are better than the breed average -
I agree with that Lisa posted.
Fairs coming from lines that have produced a ''fair'' amount of HD is NOT the ideal place to go.
I just CANNOT in any way justify using a Fair dog that is from a line that is 3-4+ generations down from Fairs (meaning Fair produced a Fair that produced a Fair… and so on) alog with a ''fair'' spattering of HD from dogs in the pedigree it is just NOT worth the risk.Until I find someone that tells me living with a HD animal has no bearing on it's life, I'll continue to produce only the healthiest dogs that I can...
with intense amounts of health testing throughout the pedigree... -
…Her statement is one that sounds like she doesn't fully understand health testing and how it is used. She has done no other testing so can not say whether her bitch has normal hips, eyes, thyroid, patellas...
Yes, I agree… and I know! I have a WL line dog and not only does the line have a bad history for fanconi, but also luxating patellas... unless… luxating patellas come from EXCELLENT patellas (with good ancestry)... probably NOT likely!
Point being: If I were to breed Basenjis, I would want to do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to assure healthy pups for the betterment of this breed… Being that I dearly love Basenjis!
So sad that these BYBs and puppy mill operators could care less about what is better for the breed!!!
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…If she is not testing the stud dog then she should be testing the puppies...
I can be almost sure that WL's Todd was not tested… considering where he comes from. And the sad fact of the matter is that Mr. Todd seems to be somewhat of a "ladies man." He has been rumored to have a mistress here in West Virginia, too... He obviously gets around!
It all boils down to what is better for the (so called)"breeders" wallets!!!:mad: UUuuugh… BYB's & millers!!!:mad:
