Bad dog behaviorists

[sharronhurlbut]

:mad:
I spent sun driving over to a "so called" rescue training class.
This fellow, had a slick training web site, got my name some way, and send me an invite to come over to learn how to handle rescue dogs.

I have done training classes before, I really can't learn enough about how different folks handle damaged dogs, so I was so looking forward to learning something new… but oh, my heavens!

If this guy was a Dr, quack wouldn't be too strong a word to use.

He was about 20 yrs behind the times with his thinking/treaching...

He started out saying that exercise is a must for a dog, and yes, I do believe that, but then he went on to say how dogs and wolfs should be dominated, up to and including hanging the dog to choke it out...and oh, yes, his fav method of handing a damged dog was to slam it on its side until it totally
submitted...
he used a pit bull to demo this, course, the dog is giving he guy all sorts of calming signals that he didn't even watch/catch/regard.

On, heavens...when he showed us how to use the leashed to choke the dogs out when they showed aggression, I got up and walked out.

I am all for training, rules and bounderies, but this was, imo, animal abuse.

I am rambing on because I am still so upset and also, because I could see some of these new folk buying into that crap.

Gee, the only thing he didn't say was use a tazer on a child having a fit.:eek:

Just use your common sense if you go to anyone training classes.
Some will really sound good to you, some will be like this guy..wrong on toast.

Yes, I have sent my opinion to the local authorities and the local rescue groups.

Sadly, he had about 13 dogs he was "helping" and 8 of his own..
Those poor, poor dogs!

[agilebasenji]

@sharronhurlbut:

Gee, the only thing he didn't say was use a tazer on a child having a fit.:eek:

Yes, but you did say you left before it was over.

I hope it wasn't too $$$.

Read Control Unleashed, have some chocolate, you'll feel better

[sharronhurlbut]

The class wasn't too pricey, but it took $50 worth of gas and 2 hr each way to get to it.
We live in the woods, so had it been something wonderful, it would have been worth the time and drive.
I just keep thinking about the dogs that are still there..
Sigh.
I did put my bully friends on this…if they can do something, they sure will.
a wonderful group, rehoming a dog who deserves a better P.R. agent.
Thanks for this post.

[snorky998]

Sounds like that nut case the "dog whisperer". I guess he has a show or something. Never saw it nor do I care to. I happened across a youtube video clip that showed a Parson Russell (?I think) afraid of a Harley Davidson. He dragged that dog to the bike in a spike collar, then started and restarted the bike, every time the dog even flinched he checked the leash/collar violently setting the spikes and literally lifting the front end of the dog from the floor by the spikes.

Training by fear/violence isn't training at all. It merely breaks the spirit of the animal.:mad: Any species.

I was raised on a horse farm and saw it with many horse trainers in the Midwest as well (ie..N & S Dakota range brooding mares that see a human once a year, bagged–burlap sack over the head--, man handled, then forcibly broken to saddle, or hobbled to accept a breeding stud.)

No matter what kind of animal, the practice of human aggressive/animal fear training is disgusting and literally makes me sick to my stomach.

Sharon, sorry your experience was bad. Hope the silver lining is that this poseur is soon exposed.

[sharronhurlbut]

Well, even with my limited behavior training, I know this guy is wrong.
Your right, fear isn't training…its just fear.
Just when you think we are getting more enlightened!
Thanks for this post.

[agilebasenji]

Violence begins where knowledge ends.
–Lincoln

[Duke]

So sorry to hear this, Sharron. I cannot believe this so-called trainer hasn't been challenged with the positive reinforcement/reward concept. The first example I can think of is the show with Victoria Stillwell - It's Me or the Dog. I so wish you'd have vented your belief which is tried and true to this this jerk. But, I know first hand from experience, this guy would have stood his ground because it's what he was trained - so that's what he was teaching. How awful you got distraught over this. How can we get the message to train without fear? I'm so sorry for the animals out there without the understanding that we share.

[sharronhurlbut]

I also like Stilwell. She uses her head and not her hands to hurt.
Having dealt with so many "hand shy" b's, its not the answer to slap them into submission.
Anyway, I will pray the dogs are taken from that place.
I sure have put the word out.
Hugs for your post.

[Robin_n_Jack]

I'm a little afraid to ask, but because I am ignorant….what is choking a dog out?

[sharronhurlbut]

Its stupid, you slam the dog to the ground, and then wrap the collar or leash or your hands around its neck until the dog "goes to sleep"…sort of like you going to sleep if someone cut off your air and blood supply.
THAT is suspose to teach the dog about behavior.
IMO, the only thing it teaches the dog is that the trainers behavior is off the charts.
Yet, that used to be an accepted correction method...
Back when they burned witches at the stake...
SIGH!
It was wrong then and now its even more obscene.

[agilebasenji]

I would guess it is tightening the choke collar until the dog passes out. I've heard horror stories about this type of trainer.

[sharronhurlbut]

Yes, you would think, in this more educated time, this would be a horror story you tell folks to show them how evolved you are.
Sigh.
I can't get that dogs face out of my mind.
She did so many calming signals to try to get him off of her.

[tanza]

@agilebasenji:

Violence begins where knowledge ends.
–Lincoln

What a great statement!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LiveWWSD]

Sharron, I am so mad, angry,grummble grummble grummble about this, and even more so that you had to be there to see it. However, I want to thank you so much for being there and seeing how this guy opperates. There are few people I can think of that I would rather have seen this obcene behavior, because you are a person who has the ear of a large portion of the rescue community. I know how hard it must have been to see this, and I know you know my next statement well.

Just remember we do what we do so that those who do not have a voice have a witness.

You are an angel, if anything comes out of this to deter this man from his assault on these poor dogs then it was all worth it.

Thank you Thank you Thank you, for being the advocate that you are.

[lvoss]

Sharron the experience you describe sounds very much like the experience published by another basenji owner in The Wrinkler this month. She was required to go to the seminar by her job and she also found herself walking out before the end because she could not take it any longer. It was hard to even read the article.

If you are looking for a place to get information or advice on positive training techniques and positive trainers there is a group called Truly Dog Friendly, http://www.trulydogfriendly.com/

[Robin_n_Jack]

WOW! That is abusive! That is horrible.

I was right to be afraid to ask. That is awful.

How would that teach the dog anything…..they are too busy being passed out to learn anything. What crap is that.

[sharronhurlbut]

I have to tell you all, I have put the word out on this "rescue/rehab" group..and this compound is in for BIG trouble.
I am also filling out a animal abuse complaint and getting the county involved.
The dogs I saw were in good physical condition, but someone who works for the county said this is the type of indications you see where the do the PIT BULL FIGHTING!
Now, I saw none of that, but he did talk about treadmills, pull sticks and his
manhandling of the dogs was enough to scream abuse to me.
Oh, the one thing I remember him saying is that dogs Don't recognise or know what LOVE it.
Wrong to toast, my 2 b's DO!

[sharronhurlbut]

Lisa thanks for the dog friendly site.
I am going to read it tonight and share it with every I know.
Also, going to mail my complaint form to the county so they can go check out this guy.
They probably won't be able to educate him out of this stupid thinking, but maybe they can make him upgrade the runs and keep him on a watch list.
Kindness, consistancy, and treats are the way to go to have dogs bond to you.
Fear is SO!!!!!!! old news, as my young nieces says…