Weaned too early, no contact with dam
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@dagodingo - I disagree that if you don't know both sides of the situation you can't make comments good or bad. The fact that this breeder had a contract and was ready/willing to take this pup back says volumes. I have been in the breed for 30+ years and there is no BYB that I know of that would ever take back a pup let alone have a contract that says they would.
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By the way, I admit that my comments about not returning the pup to the breeder was really out of line. I totally missed that this was in a contract and that the breeder was up front and did hold to the contract to take the pup back.
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@debradownsouth said in Weaned too early, no contact with dam:
@starbrightva said in Weaned too early, no contact with dam:
I'm sorry about all you are going through with the puppy. A good breeder will give advice for the life of the pup and will accept a puppy back at any time. If you decide to relinquish the pup, then by all means - contact your breeder first. ( It may even be a contractual obligation on your part.)
There is no way on earth I would return the pup to the breeder. In fact I'd be reporting her and the condition of her animals!
You would be in violation of contract and could be sued. That would have been your decision.
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There are indeed two sides to the story.
At first reading, this puppy could well have come from a puppy farmer - that is the view I took along with others. To that I plead guilty.
But as soon as I knew who the breeder is, I backed out of the thread and have been horrified at the unquestioning and unwarranted vilification hurled by members of this forum.
Let's call a halt to it NOW. The new home this pup is destined for is one I would pick for a puppy I had bred.
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@tanza “I disagree that if you don't know both sides of the situation you can't make comments good or bad.”
There is no both sides in this thread, there is only one side. Given the statements made, if true, there is only one conclusion.
“The fact that this breeder had a contract and was ready/willing to take this pup back says volumes.”
It says that the “breeder” is prepared to take the pup back. Which although indicative that the “breeder” accepts some responsibility for the pup. Nothing more and nothing less.
As I said before, if the original poster is a liar, then naturally the breeder would be blameless. For all I know it might be a great breeder and a bunch of lies.
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@zande “The new home this pup is destined for is one I would pick for a puppy I had bred.”
Indeed, I hope so as this is the only important thing. The only things that matters here is the pup.
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@zande, I'm very pleased and relieved that you confirm that this pup is going to a good home. That puts my mind at rest as I've been worrying about the outcome. Thank you for letting us know.
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@starbrightva said in Weaned too early, no contact with dam:
There is no way on earth I would return the pup to the breeder. In fact I'd be reporting her and the condition of her animals!
You would be in violation of contract and could be sued. That would have been your decision.
Having bred dogs, I know that the cost of actually getting the puppy back can be beyond what most breeders can afford to do. If I believed the pup would be harmed, as a breeder or owner, I'd do everything I could.
That said, having breeders I trust vouch for the breeder, I can only hope that the buyer sits down and seriously rethinks the truthfulness of their posts. The pup was returned, is in a new home, and I would hope if the buyer honestly evaluates their comments and realizes only suspicious not backed up with facts that they will do right and delete this entire thread.
I'm no ashamed or upset with posters... we go on what we are told. Should we assume everyone lies and not support them? In life, we usually don't get a fair 2-sided argument. But I am convinced this is not a byb, simply a puppy needing a more experienced home and owners being overwhelmed.
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To those in this forum that continue to call us liars, please know we have emails and pictures that could prove our statements.
We posted here to get sound, reasonable help from people experienced with Basenjis, help that we were otherwise not receiving. We needed to make an informed decision as soon as possible for the goodness of this beautiful pup that we did not want to give up on. It is STILL heartbreaking.
Reading all of this is very upsetting but we are relieved to read that our pup has gone on to the home that we were told she would be re-homed to.
It was a horrible day and it broke our hearts that we were not allowed to say goodbye
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@takoda - I don't think it was a case of calling anyone lairs... Let's just end it with a decision was made for best outcome for the pup.
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“To those in this forum that continue to call us liars, please know we have emails and pictures that could prove our statements.”
As far a I can see through the posts, nobody called you a liar? Not really interested in your emails and pictures, throwing dirt at this point discredits you and is pointless.
“We posted here to get sound, reasonable help from people experienced with Basenjis, help that we were otherwise not receiving. We needed to make an informed decision as soon as possible for the goodness of this beautiful pup that we did not want to give up on. It is STILL heartbreaking.”
You were given good advice, you made the decision to return the pup, which I believe is the right decision. Yet you state you didn’t want to give up even though you decided to.
“It was a horrible day and it broke our hearts that we were not allowed to say goodbye”
So now you are saying that they took the pup unexpectedly after you knew they were taking the pup?
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@tanza Nobody called them a liar, the debate was whether two diametrically opposed versions of events could be possible without one side being a liar. I agree, the main thing is that the pup is rehomed.
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You seem to want to twist my words. Yes, I hardly think you want all the details of this ordeal. This has caused us great anguish, we never dreamed we would ever return a pup.
Of course we knew we were surrendering the pup. The day could have gone a lot smoother.
Again, we came here for help with our puppy. We never named the breeder, we needed advice from people experienced with this breed. We wanted to make an informed decision.
For those that think we were wrong to return to the breeder, we had a contract and never considered not honoring it. The pup needs to be settled and with an older dog (as per our trainer) and that is where we understand she is. Not in some shelter causing her fear.
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I don’t need to twist your words, your words speak for themselves. All you seem concerned about is yourself, which is why you continue the thread somehow looking at yourself as a victim.
The dog has gone, be glad that the dog is now in good hands.
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try this -species identification occurs in the week after the eyes open and being nuzzled by the bitch may have been missing. substitute your face several times per day nose rub and breath on its face eye to eye the reflex nose lick may still be present it will go away when the fixation period is over- fixed for life... why is this dog humping my leg? domestic dogs do not develop on a normal mammal time scale and this period may get extended into puppyhood[neotenic behavior] in these wolves. basenjis develop 'normally 'like other canids. barking for instance is a normal canid puppy behavior and basenjis do it too until they are 'too old'. long distance calling [yodeling] is heard in adult wolves in the wild usually at dawn and dusk.
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@mister-science said in Weaned too early, no contact with dam:
barking for instance is a normal canid puppy behavior and basenjis do it too until they are 'too old'
Adult Basenji's don't bark, but Basenji puppies do? That doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps one of our experienced breeder(s) could clarify this...
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@elbrant It doesn't make any sense to me, either ! I've lost count of how many litters we've had over the past 38 - 39 years but nary a puppy has barked. That is absolutely certain !
Like the adults, Basenji pups can give an open mouthed cough, which can sound like a bark unless you are watching it. The mouth is open at the end of the sound, not closed as when any other dog barks. It is only a single sound - just like a single cough.
As the adults, they do it if surprised or backed into a corner or in any other situation where an adult might show a similar reaction.
I held the pups to the pulse in my neck as soon as they were whelped, to establish a comfort rapport and continued close contact and socialisation right through their first few weeks.
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experience hearing basenjis bark? how old were they and did they 'grow out of it'
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@mister-science said in Weaned too early, no contact with dam:
experience hearing basenjis bark? how old were they and did they 'grow out of it'
.... @mister-science, you suggested that Basenji puppies bark in the preceding post, so... perhaps you could share your experience with us. Did you hear Basenji puppies barking firsthand, or were you quoting something you read elsewhere?
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contributing to behavioral science implies observational rigor beyond faded old memories and from as many people as possible
