Simple question about playing bitten each other

[Maca]

i think a lot about that, but today i get the idea that the worst is when im at home, like if they were fighting for my atention..
their major fight are done with me at home, not alone..
or when im leaving but i learn when maca is so anxious those days Laika is on the garden, and she cant came in.

but i dont know what to do, when they are playing rough with me, sure, if i command stop and put away they came down

now both are sleeping here on my bed, they sleep all days with me.. some days i just fall sleep and i wake up with one on each side..

and crate them, Maca is a nightmare on crate, in fact i dont have crate.. i have the garden to put laika away those days
and well when im on women days, i know its time to let laika out, Maca get anxious those days..

[Maca]

when maca was in the vet, she destroy a cage.. the ver was crazy with her.
she was glad that i pick out maca that day, and she is the most patient vet on these city.
but i want to know if i must stop that kind of games or if i must allow that.
with common sense i stop when its too rough..
and i give maca the alfa position so they dont need to fight but wanna know if i must stop or let them a few of that

[tanza]

From what you are describing, sorry to say, I don't think it is playing. One of them is going to get seriously hurt, just a matter of time

[Maca]

thanks Tanza, maca will be 5 years old on november and Laika will be 3 on january.

I just checking, Maca has her temper but Laika starts the fights/playing i mean they dont scream or something just play on silence, so i think she is maturing..

they are bore.. another day raining.. so need her exercise, but well the second fight was just after a looong walk
so i dont think exercise calm down them its psico dog thing..
now they take dinner and are here side by side sleeping..

i think will get a cage, to send maca to breed on these season then i will fix her..

[tanza]

@Maca:

thanks Tanza, maca will be 5 years old on november and Laika will be 3 on january.

I just checking, Maca has her temper but Laika starts the fights/playing i mean they dont scream or something just play on silence, so i think she is maturing..

they are bore.. another day raining.. so need her exercise, but well the second fight was just after a looong walk
so i dont think exercise calm down them its psico dog thing..
now they take dinner and are here side by side sleeping..

i think will get a cage, to send maca to breed on these season then i will fix her..

It has been long known with Basenjis, when they are fighting, the most serious ones involved NO noise. I never really worried is there was noise associated with little arguments, it is when there is no noise that I am super concerned.

[Maca]

ohhhhhhhh pffff so if they were making noises.. screaming and so.. pfff..

Laika use to bark, every time they played, but Maca never make any noise..

she barks almost everyday and maca sometimes growls, but when she starts growling im concerned because then jump over Laika and Laika scream.. so the noises for me are not a good thing..

I have a video of them playing or fighting whatever will upload on youtube so you can check them.

[khanis]

I have some dogs that play with lots of growling noises…
and I have some that never make a peep.
I have had dogs that play over bones and squeal like piggies as they hit each other in the face.

But, I agree with Pat... when it appears they are fighting with NO NOISE
THEN I get concerned... that is what I would call a Death Match.
Noise is always a good thing...
Silence, in Basenjis, is NOT golden!!

Crate them when gone... just for safety's sake...
better safe than sorry.

[lisastewart]

Definitely separate them when you are not arround. Why do you want to breed? I had two bitches who got along great until around age 5 when they had puppies, shortly after that they hated each other and I ended up placing the older one. I think breeding worsens a bad temperament and would not breed dogs that are already having issues.

[tanza]

@lisastewart:

Definitely separate them when you are not arround. Why do you want to breed? I had two bitches who got along great until around age 5 when they had puppies, shortly after that they hated each other and I ended up placing the older one. I think breeding worsens a bad temperament and would not breed dogs that are already having issues.

Totally agree, that is why I was concerned when I bred C-Me, as she and Franie got along so well. I was extremely lucky that they did not have any problems and got back together pretty easy. But then, C-Me was never overly protective of her babies, she was happy to share…. And Franie was did not try and "take" the babies... and was respectful when they were quite young and nursing most all the time.

But I have been on the otherside of the equation too... my Maggii and Fatia had a hate relationship, I should clarify that that Fatia had that "want a be" hate relationship with Maggii. Maggii would have been happy to share the house with Fatia.... but the fights got worse and worse... to the point one was going to wind up dead.... I had to place Fatia and it was the best and smartest thing I ever did.

[Maca]

ohh

they well along their fights was on heat.. now laika is fixed, but still im concerned about putting separate..
Maca has a place that laika cant reach, so she can be there on high position and Laika cant go to disputate the spot.

last 2 days Laika was outside and Maca was alone, today is a rainy day so i left both together.. i will keep a very close on them
both are sweet and have been together alone since Laika arrives at 7 month but you are saying laika is growing and can make the mistake
of arguing the alpha place so i will check carefully

why i wanna breed? well if we could have Tanzas, Meisterhaus, Khanis and all the bunch of serious breeders we wont need to breed

BUT here on Mexico.. we have crappy breeders.. no offense but Fanconi test? nop
The new eyes test? zero, thanks

all breeders use the same dogs over and over on the group all we have half brothers with the other so why breed them?

I see you make not the same combos, but here is the same over and over,

since i have Maca i was wating for a litter that wasnt halfbrothers.. or have fanconi test and such thing has not happen

So.. i mean the principal breeder has some nice dogs, but after 4 years breeding the same… and not making fanconi so why i must wait to the breeder makes her mind and make fanconi to begin for?

Other breeder even has a internet place to check what dogs are using.. i think are not more into basenjis. and again he said fanconi even exist.. so.. i must wait too to he makes his mind and get fanconi for his dogs or get new dogs?

Other breeder, Brismen, pff luckily has stoped.. you can see the quality here http://www.brismen.com.mx/hembras/hembras-de-basenji/brismen-dogs-maja.html

a strong inbreeding and mediocre dogs, on some time has nice dogs even champions but not today and he even register the pupps! he ask so high prize for the papers that few people do that. in fact on his FB he was asking to the people send details to him because he dont know on what place or home his dogs are! so even cant get his **** together

and some new breeder, these year get a new dog from Savio Itapuca, but dont make fanconi too.
maybe in the future, and dont want a Itapuca vs Vorobieva because my bitch is Vorobieva.
And he is not the most fan of make fanconi test too. his good side is that he shows.
Well done because is showing but bad for not make the test for his dogs.

i mean is Sanchez or Vorobieva or Brismen, thats all, thanks.

My bitch is Vorobieva..so i dont want to breed with the same.
Brismen no thanks
Sanchez, i dont know if already are breeding.

So a friend has imported 2 basenjis brothers, male and female so its new blood. And his dogs y very decent dog.

So if i seat for a puppy that is not brismen or vorobieva or Sanchez, i must get a chair and wait.

I want to produce a dog that is better than my bitch and 100% clears, because already we got too many carriers.

And of course.. here on Mexico nobody sells any dogs fixed.. the culture is to get intact the dogs of any breed or kind.

So already some people are breeding decent or mediocre bitches with decent or mediocre males.

I want to breed decent with better dog. im tired of waiting and see every season the same dogs breeding again
and not fanconi.

If i want a decent basenji i must import.. or i can use the male from the owner of Summer the bitch that was breeding via frozen semen with Rafiki Icon of Cool.

I want one that puppies but im not live on Mexico City and the breeder want to have the puppies close. So not puppy for me.

But i can use Summer brother to breed with Maca.

If i do that i will keep separate them for sure.. and then check what happens..

for the puppies i know people on the group that want a second basenji female or male it depends on what already have.

So i dont worry about that and of course i can keep the dogs the time that its necesary to find them good homes, im not on a rush
i dont believe on give the puppies at month and a half like some people do.

If i breed Maca i will left her enjoy her pupps and take time to check who will take them.

And on the process maybe can find a nice puppy with good head and some wrinkles. Or get the same medicore quality that we have on Mexico.

But if i breed Maca with her family or wait to get a new thing.. such thing wont happen.

Hector make too special breedings.. and dont want to send far from him
And the rest breed with Vorobieva or Sanchez or Brismen and i dont want the same

I already have not breed Maca because i dont want breed with the same.

But if i wait to somebody else.. i need a chair.

I dont show because i live on the south of Mexico and here we dont get any daam show. Im planning to go to other states to show the dogs
and anyway if a breed will send the puppies to people that get the promise of show them ..

So why i can breed? the only and big thing that i my self tell to me is that Maca is decent no superb basenji.

But if i dont get a new blood can expect for something new, just the same.

And Maca is getting old and like said, her breeder is not getting new dogs and not testing. I already had a fanconi dog, dont need another one.

Okey i can fix Maca and get a breding pair, but i wont have 3 females for sure. So is not a option.. and wont send Maca away just because she is decent but not superb.

will be the third litter on Mexico with both parents tested for Fanconi.. with a dog that have a interesting pedigri. with champions and all the last 5 generations. Maca parentes are mexican and russian and cuba champions so not bad dogs.

so thats why i wanna breed, i want a better dog that Maca. And wont breed the soon with the mom for sure. I want a male that i can show .
Maybe cant get one, on any case will be new blood because the dad already breed just one time and i think he wont breed with her sister again.

Was not my first election, the first was outside but now i get it that nobody will sell me a nice dog.

So i will use the best that i have at hand. I mean really the best, and the male is very nice looking male.

Or can get a chair, sure. sorry for my bad redaction was trying to get my ideas together. lol.

[Maca]

and for the mood, Maca is the best with people and children. Like to see other dogs, sure with females not so happy but dont fight and with some she is happy , she is not ALL female agressive and not all the time.

On the other side, even when Laika was healty and wont breed her ever, because she is sooo shy and so timid.. thats not a family dog.
But Maca is happy with people and with other dogs, Laika too, not so happy with the people sure.
So i dont think on these point that Maca cant breed because she is so nice with people. Putting aside the Laika incidents she is playfull, loyal and loves to be with me and other people. On basenji way sure. has good top line, decent wrinkles and long muzzle. Thats her worst side.

[lisastewart]

So have you tested for Fanconi via the direct test and the PRA test? Just because her lines have not produced it, is not enough unless you have tested your own dogs.

[Maca]

Maca is direct tested and the posible male is direct tested, both clears, the future dad and sister was the first mexican dogs tested, Maca and Laika was the third and four.. nope, were other 2 dogs tested before, was a breeding par, the owner tested at my request. because i want a brindle from him. But the sire was half brother and he sold so fast the puppies that anyway dont need to go into the trouble of sending and that all show.. lol. So i get any brindle that time.

And i think after ask the test, he was happy that not to sell to me. Luckily the dogs result clear the female and the other carrier.
Sure the new owners will breed some day without know that can have a carrier, but thats the way the things goes by here.

now we get 4 new results, all clears, and 5 more are on the mail.

All from owners and a new breeder, the long time breeders, sleeping on their "breeder" title. Because their dogs are healty.. (sure! but carriers..) or dont have the time, the money, or dont want to be exposed. i dont know.

So far Laika is the only with Fanconi affected living on Mexico.

Some people has affected but still dont know. And at least 2 die from not diagnosed Fanconi last year.

The new eye test will make on Maca, Laika dont need more bad news anyway.

And her parents one is carrier and other is clear, my best guessing for the results of the dog that we the owners have made done.
because they have not been tested.

here the posible Sire http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1489563#animal

and here is Maca http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1544897#animal

both dogs are on Sally Wallys database.

[tanza]

You still have the issue with the two bitches that you already have. Maca having puppies is going to make it worse, I think.

[Maca]

Well i need to run 2 packs like everybody else. Today they are separete. Laika make pee on my bed again so she is out today.
She will sleep at night on the bed well.. maybe not, just inside the house.

[clokatys]

When I got my first Basenji Kobi, so I am no expert. But I have a big kennel in the basement that we kept our Whippets in. My breeder strongly advised a crate instead. He said Basenjis are not your normal dog. First she would probably climb out and second if the Basenji and the Whippet
have a disagreement and you are not home one or both could get hurt. I crate them both next to each other. They play-argue a lot but never
bite each other just scream loudly. Even the Whippet barks and is loud. Kobi screams. I still dont let them go to long as I do not want rough play
to turn into an arguement. I would never trust them alone. It only takes one toy or one wanting to be dominant to start an argument. I would never leave them alone in the kennel either. I crate them in a very large great dane size crate with a nice big bed in it and they love their crate. Sometimes they go in there when we are home to take a nap even when they dont have to.

[Maca]

thanks clokatys, i must to say that here we got 35-40 C i think 95 F -104 F and even we get at 44 at top 111F

So when its to hot my girls sleep on the floor getting fresh .. inside the house of course or inside a cartoon box that they like and even with these hot weather they take some sun baths. But they dont like so much the comfort beds at the day because is too hot.

So i cant explain to me leaving them inside a crate, i think is too hot. I even let a fan directly to my bed so they can go there and sleep with the air.
I let almost daily the tv or the computer with the radio on, so they got the same noises that get when im there.

And i left some clothes or pijama over my bed in case that the smell give some comfort. I adopted Laika because dont want that Maca was alone all day sure, i dont have such advise here or i were getting a male.

They sleep all day and are very happy at nights getting outside the house to walk and getting some fresh. The house is so hot on the second floor, but the first floor is more fresh and they spent the day on that place and can go outside to make pee well… Maca does, Laika dont..

Or can go to check the lizards or the neigbours dog, we have 5 months on these new house and some days i left separate.. pff i must do that today.. Maca was anxious and i fail to read that.. just know writing i get the idea that i must left one inside and one outside on the garden, that have a little roof to give shelter from the sun and the rain.

Well, so i thinks is too hot and boring having them crate.. so i separate them when Maca is anxious and these is the days that i must do that.

Will carry on checking their plays and stoping when is too much.

I notice too, lately that sometimes one invite the other to play rolling and showing the belly so the other grab the neck of the one showing belly or try because the other escapes and then they switch. Some times Laika do that, i mean push Maca with her side and then Laika seek the belly position to escape asap.

The day they fight was when i was leaving the house to work and was on january i think was the strees of the new house, i must left separte and fail to recognize that. I need to learn to read them. I hope wont find any injury bad.

On weekends i spent all day at home and they sleep and play or go to take sun baths or follow me while i do my house chores and get happy at the door to take walks that days.

Will carry on checking his plays.. will make a video so you can check the kind of plays, sure all with hunting practice..