2 1/2 yr old male "mongo"

[eeeefarm]

The trouble with a "shotgun" approach is that if it works you have then to figure out which change caused the improvement. Do try to keep track of what you did, when you did it, and when you saw results, so that any change may be attributed to the correct source.

[lvoss]

The prices you are being charged seem outrageous. I have dog with an immune mediated disorder that has needed immune suppressants and her veterinary specialist said the good news about most of them is they are available as generics and so are not that expensive. Right now we are on a weaning protocol for prednisone, the specialist calls the prescriptions into Target because generics are only $4 for 30 pills that way. If the condition flares back up we will be adding, most likely, cyclosporin because we want to minimize the prednisone because of its side effects, that will also be only $4 because it is available as a generic. I don't know how things work in Canada but in the US the vet can write the prescription to be filled elsewhere like a human pharmacy or a different pet pharmacy. I would have a talk with your vet about why they want to use the very expensive name brand rather than much cheaper generic especially considering how long the dog may be on the drug.

[krunzer]

@lvoss:

The prices you are being charged seem outrageous. I have dog with an immune mediated disorder that has needed immune suppressants and her veterinary specialist said the good news about most of them is they are available as generics and so are not that expensive. Right now we are on a weaning protocol for prednisone, the specialist calls the prescriptions into Target because generics are only $4 for 30 pills that way. If the condition flares back up we will be adding, most likely, cyclosporin because we want to minimize the prednisone because of its side effects, that will also be only $4 because it is available as a generic. I don't know how things work in Canada but in the US the vet can write the prescription to be filled elsewhere like a human pharmacy or a different pet pharmacy. I would have a talk with your vet about why they want to use the very expensive name brand rather than much cheaper generic especially considering how long the dog may be on the drug.

The vets here will also write a prescription that can be filled at a regular store. When we got meds for Flame they were called in to my pharmacy and we got them filled there. Apparently dogs are not considered children though so you cannot get the meds under your work medical plan!! LOL. But I do believe the prices for the RAW diets at specialty dog stores can get way out of hand also the food that you get at the vet's offices here, if they are 'special', can be very pricey also.

Have you had your dog in for allergy testing? Also one of my friends swears by a holistic vet that is in Edmonton. If you would like I could find out the contact info for you for the holisitic vet.

[lvoss]

I don't know about the pharmacies in Canada but because the large stores like Target and Costco can get the bulk generics quite inexpensively the $4 price is without insurance covering anything, that is just their price for many generics. It has made a huge difference for us since the immune suppressant dose of pred was 2 pills per day so we could get a month supply for $8 and now that we are weaning off, it is $4 for two months worth.

[krunzer]

@lvoss:

I don't know about the pharmacies in Canada but because the large stores like Target and Costco can get the bulk generics quite inexpensively the $4 price is without insurance covering anything, that is just their price for many generics. It has made a huge difference for us since the immune suppressant dose of pred was 2 pills per day so we could get a month supply for $8 and now that we are weaning off, it is $4 for two months worth.

Yup same as up here. Walmart, Superstore or Costco will all sell generic pills. Most of the time they ask you if you want brand name or generic. The meds are all the same and generic is cheaper so I dunno why one would go with name-brand. Edmonton is a bigger city than where I live so there should even be more options there.

[Mongo'smommy]

The cyclosporine that the vet wants him to have is a veterinary only med (I am a pharmacist so I was asking why he couldn't have the human version…..she said it was due to this $$ one being specially formulated for dogs)
The vet didn't recommend allergy testing. Basically said that it wasn't cost effective. Does anyone from Canada recommend a specific raw food brand?

Prednisone is amazing.....one dose and his underside is back to normal color and no scratching!

[nomrbddgs]

This year is horrible for everything-allergies, bugs, heat, etc. Pred is good for short term usage, but you will need to watch for long term. Raw food varies from region to region in Canada. BARF is available in TO, but not here in Niagara, so there are alternative companies. You will need to contact people in your specific area for recommendations. As for the cost of meds in Canada, our costs for meds are outrageous, and not always readily available. While in the US, you can go to a farm store like TSC and get certain meds there, we do not have that option here. And, in Ontario, we are limited further. I cannot even get a lice pesticide for my chickens because pesticides are banned. So you have to be sneaky and smuggle them in. Just to fill a prescription at a drug store it is $10-that's not including any cost of meds. Strictly filling fee. We just have stricter pharmaceutical laws in Canada and that definitely shows in the price. I have to pay $40 for 180 thyroid pills, in the US I could get 1000 for what? about $100-150? Not nice up here if you run into trouble and don't have options.

[lvoss]

Have you asked about being referred to a specialist? They are much better versed in the treatments and medications and though their services are not cheap in the long run they can save you money especially with an issue that may be life long. I love my regular vet and they are very good but they referred us to an internal medicine specialist with our one with immune mediated issues. It has definitely been a long road but things are continuing to get better.

Also, here is an article about Atopica, http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/Dermatology360/Dermatology-Update-Using-the-new-cyclosporine-form/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/659289

[eeeefarm]

@nomrbddgs:

I cannot even get a lice pesticide for my chickens because pesticides are banned.

Really? I've got that dust on stuff for my horses (Dry Kill) that kills lice. Mind you, I haven't bought any recently. Not sure if it works for bird lice, although I believe bird lice can affect horses. I think I had my bout with them when I had pigeons roosting in my run in shed. (yeah, lice are supposed to be host specific, but so are fleas, and cat flees certainly love me!)

Prednisone has some annoying side effects (thirsty, hungry, peeing more) and some potentially dangerous ones. Dumps the immune system so they are more prone to infections. And it can be difficult to properly taper them off if they have been on it long term. Been there, done that, years ago with my girl with the suspected brain tumour. Best to find out what the problem is ASAP, although it may well be seasonal. Did you try something less potent, like Benadryl (antihistamine), first?

[nomrbddgs]

Yes, really! I was just at minor bros and couldn't get any. Used to be able to, but not any more. Now, from what they tell me, you have to have a license. Now that, is really, really dumb. They haven't given us any alternatives for stuff like that-they just took everything away. I've given them ivomec to see if that works. And how happy do you think the hobby farmers are?

[eeeefarm]

I will have to check my farm supply store. I don't personally have much use for pesticides and avoid them when possible, but when you actually need something it isn't pleasant not to be able to find it! I do support regulation as we had a horrible problem with overspray of very toxic chemicals from the potato crop behind us in the past. The idiot used to spray on windy days (supposed to be illegal) and I had so much on my hay crop one year that the environment ministry official who investigated implied I had sprayed it myself! Ridiculous! Apart from anything else, I wasn't licensed to buy the chemicals in question even had I wanted to!

Sorry for the thread hijack. Back on topic: I had a suspected ragweed allergy problem with my guy, and Benadryl helped somewhat, as did keeping him away from the weed as much as possible, but if it is a seasonal allergy it can be hard to avoid contact. Food or something else in his environment is another story. Prednisone will certainly knock it down, but IMO is (or should be) only a short term solution.

[nomrbddgs]

I don't mind the regulation, but it would be nice if they could give us an alternative.

Yes, Pred is good for short term, but not for long term. Having said that, I have had to use steroids long term for Zina because of her immune deficiencies. But, the problems they cause are just as bad as the problems in the first place. There are soo many things that they can be allergic to. For the allergy testing, I believe they can only test for certain things and not everything shows, so my personal opinion is that they are not very worthwhile. It could be anything carpet, the type of carpet, the type of cleaner you use, food, treats, outside environmentals etc. It's such a wide range. If it doesn't go away in the winter, or with colder weather, I would suspect an inside allergen.

[krunzer]

I don't know if anyone has asked this question yet….but how long have you had him for? Have you had him since he was a pup and this allergy just popped up? or did you get him just a few months ago and then this happened? If you got him just recently and there was no prior issue, that is something to consider....

[Mongo'smommy]

Yes we have tried Benadryl and it helped very little. We have had him since he was 12 weeks and it started shortly after. We had thought it was from the cold here (can be -30 celsius). The vet gave him keflex and prednisone then and it cleared up. Since last summer it had been getting progressively worse….his coat has thinned except along his spine where he can't reach. IMO this had to be a small part food allergy and a larger part environmental (which we have many environmental allergens).
The prednisone will have to do, despite it's long term side effects, as there is no way we can afford the Atopica. We will just wean him down when we can and try to control the flares.

[eeeefarm]

I assume he has been checked for demodectic or sarcoptic mange?

Sarcoptic mange is an extremely common infection and many cases have often been misdiagnosed as severe allergy to a certain type of dog food or environmental plants. In many parts of the US and Canada including all of North and South America, there are more dogs with sarcoptic mange than their are with ticks, fleas, lice, or even ear mites. For these reasons, any time I see a dog with severe itching, and no fleas or ticks are seen on the dog's skin, I have to automatically suspect sarcoptic mange as the culprit.

http://www.beaglesunlimited.com/health/sarcoptic-mange-and-inexpensive-treatment

[Mongo'smommy]

The vet gave me this medicine to apply in four spots down his spine once a month for three months. Does that sound like treatment for this?

[eeeefarm]

@Mongo'smommy:

The vet gave me this medicine to apply in four spots down his spine once a month for three months. Does that sound like treatment for this?

Maybe. What is the medication called? From the description of application I would guess it's Selamectin (Revolution)

[dcmclcm4]

What food were you feeding when he was a puppy and when he was an adult before going on the prescription diet? The foods might give a clue!

Jennifer

[krunzer]

@eeeefarm:

Maybe. What is the medication called? From the description of application I would guess it's Selamectin (Revolution)

Sounds like Revolution to me also, but is that a prescribed medication for Sarcoptic mange?

[eeeefarm]

@krunzer:

Sounds like Revolution to me also, but is that a prescribed medication for Sarcoptic mange?

Selamectin is an ivermectin derivative recently marketed in the dog for the control of fleas, ticks, heartworm, ear mites and sarcoptic mange mites. Normal monthly use of this product should prevent a sarcoptic mange problem but to clear an actual infection studies show an extra dose is usually needed after 2 weeks for reliable results.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_sarcoptic_mange.html

Of course, you could use ivermectin off label:

IVERMECTIN - This is one of the most effective treatments against Sarcoptes scabei yet is off-label as far as the FDA is concerned. There are several protocols due to the very long activity of this drug in the body. Typically an injection is given either weekly or every two weeks in 1-4 doses. In most cases this treatment is safe and effective but some individuals have a mutation which makes ivermectin very toxic at the doses used to kill mites.

I would think for a Basenji it would be safe, Not for collie type dogs, however…..