What a cute picture! B's are so loving and have no problem sharing space with a loved one. Sometimes we look at Dolce and wonder how she wakes up without a kink in her neck. She also likes to be buried deep under covers, even when it's hot. Maybe it makes her feel closer to her homeland (near the equator). "-)
He's Arriving On Saturday!
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I thought DNA testing could only be done when they are close to 1 year, due to the amount of blood needed?
Oh and welcome to the forums!
Nope the marker test for Fanconi using blood can be done as early as six weeks old (or as soon as a puppy is big enough to withstand the blood draw)…but now it is done with saliva swab anyhow.
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That is incorrect. The DNA test does not require blood anymore and even when it did puppies could safely be tested by 8 weeks. Puppies can now be tested at 3 weeks old, once they can be kept from nursing for at least 2 hours before testing.
My puppy L'Ox was tested at 3 weeks old and I have had his results for 2 weeks now, he is 6 weeks old. He is from a Carrier x Clear breeding so I wanted to know whether he was a Carrier or a Clear.
Of course, the age of puppy testing is fairly irrelevant as long as the breeder was responsible and tested both parents BEFORE breeding so NO Affected puppies are ever produced.
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Blood needed?
I thought it was a swab to the cheek test?
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It is now a cheek swab test. When the test first came out, blood was required. It has been cheek swab ONLY for several months now.
What are you going to do if you puppy comes back as Probably Affected after you have already shipped him out to you?
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Myself and my partner will discuss that when and if it happens.
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Why not look for a breeder that bred health tested parents so there is no need to have that discussion?
I really don't understand why you or anyone would support a breeder who cares so little for their animals they wouldn't spring for a $65 test to make sure they produced healthy puppies. I would really like someone, anyone to give me a reasonable explanation.
If you don't care about health, why not save a life and rescue a homeless basenji? Medfly Basenji Rescue has nearly 100 basenji needing homes because they came from breeders who didn't care for them either and so they got dumped in shelters when their owners didn't or couldn't keep them anymore.
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I don't know Ivoss, I had nothing to do with the purchase.
But I am positive my partner would of done his research about the breeder, he is meticulous when it comes to research.
Who said I didn't care about health? I sure as hell didn't.
Do you "interrogate" every new member like this?
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Actually, if you go look at most new puppy threads, yes, I do. Fanconi is heartbreaking and 100% preventable. Your buying from a breeder who won't test only means you are supporting their decision and insuring future puppies will be bred with no testing.
If you are buying an untested puppy from untested parents then the only conclusion I can draw is that you don't care about health otherwise you would demand the test results prior to spending money.
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How many times do you I have to tell you.
I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PURCHASE.
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But you are aware of the issue and this puppy is supposed to be a gift to you. So why are you not having the discussions with your partner now instead of holding breath and hoping for the best?
I am not trying to interrogate, I just honestly do not understand. Dogs are such a huge committment. I don't understand the concept of a "surprise" puppy and I don't understand not asking questions when there are reasonable and fairly serious questions to be asked.
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I don't know Ivoss, I had nothing to do with the purchase.
But I am positive my partner would of done his research about the breeder, he is meticulous when it comes to research.
Who said I didn't care about health? I sure as hell didn't.
Do you "interrogate" every new member like this?
I must agree with something what lvoss wrote.
Firstly I would want to be acquainted with choice of breeder since the start. IMO buying of dog shouldn't be surprise as same as shouldn't be Christmas present, birthday present etc…
From what I saw at the website of your breeder I can say I don't have a good feeling of that. I couldn't find any info about parents of puppies, their health info and more important info.
For me it seems your partner wasn't as meticulous as he should. -
I have only known about Kai since Sunday afternoon, I have been aware of the issue since sunday night.
Myself and my partner will be discussing it tonight, but I am damn sure the puppy will be falconi free, my partner has had Basenji's in the past so he knows what he's doing, he's even already bought everything required, so the online shopping spree I was SO looking forward to won't be happening…damnit!
I myself was raised with dogs, my parents used to breed Rottweilers for dog shows in England so as for being a huge commitment, I know all about it.
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Here is a link on how to find a responsible breeder, it has been posted on the forums many times and is on the Basenji Club of America parent club site. I think that if you read though this, you can see that maybe the research was not as good as it could have been.
http://www.basenji.org/learn/ScreeningBreeders.htm
That is a good place to start when interested in a breed, the parent club site. You learn about health issues, responsible breeders, Basenjis in general, local clubs (which you have in Southern California)
Note that there is a section on screening prospective buyers…. and the one statement that says "A breeder who will sell/ship a puppy without references and a thorough screening process should be cause for concern". And again, this is just one of many tests that should be done before breedings. Here is an example of a well health tested Basenji and all the records are made public so that anyone can see them.
http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1293496#animal
I do not think you will find that from the breeder of this puppy boy.
This breeder breds more then one breed, how can this person/persons properly socialize a puppy with that many different breeds? Leads to the question, how are they cared for? Are they raised in the home? Or in a kennel when they do not get the socialization of family life? Things like hearing the TV, radio, Vaccuum cleaners, all kinds of day to day family things…. -
It is Fanconi, not Falconi
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I will have my partner contact them and will provide a report for all of you tomorrow.
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I will have my partner contact them and will provide a report for all of you tomorrow.
If the sire and dam are not on the ofa website then they have not been tested. It is a requirement that any Fanconi tested dog be listed on a public database. So if you find out the name of the sire and the dam, you can check it out for yourself. (which is always a good thing to do, check it out for yourself)
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SpolidKai,
As you have seen, people on the forum are passionate about Fanconi disease. Those of us who have been in Basenjis for a very long time are fully aware of the affects this disease has not only on the dog itself but for the family who owns it also. Affected dogs must have expensive tests runs every few months and most have to be be force-fed handfuls of pills daily. They drink large amounts of water and urinate frequently and large quantities. Some do ok on this protocal, others do not and must be euthanized. All of this can be prevented by giving the adults a simple $65 test prior to breeding them. Just $65, that's it, and it only has to be done once in a dog's lifetime.So when we hear about puppies being produced from untested parents, we become passionate. We love our breed and we want to protect our breed. In our eyes, any breeder who either chooses not to do the Fanconi test or is too ignorant to even know about the test is harming the breed. We try to steer buyers away from breeders like that because we don't want the buyers to end up heartbroken. Another thing is that when breeders like that cannot find buyers they either stop breeding Basenjis or learn to breed a bit more responsibly. This is beneficial to the breed as a whole since fewer affected animals will be produced.
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But you are aware of the issue and this puppy is supposed to be a gift to you. So why are you not having the discussions with your partner now instead of holding breath and hoping for the best?
I am not trying to interrogate, I just honestly do not understand. Dogs are such a huge committment. I don't understand the concept of a "surprise" puppy and I don't understand not asking questions when there are reasonable and fairly serious questions to be asked.
Everyone has a different level of expectations and priorities in life, and it changes with every subject.
The same could be said about individuals buying homes, cars, etc. Not everyone is as meticulous as you would expect. That's just a thing with our society and human beings in general. It's impossible for every individual to be fully educated on every single topic.
Those of you who breed dogs already know these things. You simply cannot expect every individual looking to make an addition to their family with a dog know every single thing to look for like you do.
You can raise awareness (and I think that's a great thing), but you can't criticize everyone who takes in a new dog. I'm sure we can all find things in life to criticize others about that we have extensive knowledge over. I come across it every day. All you can do is educate, don't continue to focus on what they missed or did wrong, but educate for the purpose of going forward. I will admit some of you get quite fixated on some of these flaws and I think you just need to let it go and let the individuals understand what they need to know going forward.
Just my .02
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With that said… Congratulations on Kai. It sounds like you are committed to educating yourself on the unique health concerns regarding Basenjis. I'm sure you'll find yourself knowledgeable of some great things that are shared on this forum. The forum and the members that post are simply a great resource.
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Except when people come to these forums and say they plan to do the test when the puppy arrives that says to me they know the test exists. If they know the test exists and have read about the test then they should also have seen the breeding recommendations and know that parents should be tested PRIOR to breeding.
It is very different if a person didn't know about the test. I don't understand knowing about a test and disease and not requiring the testing be done by the seller. It is the seller's responsibility to prove they have a quality product, not the buyer's responsibility to prove otherwise.
