Hi Michelle,
Did you get in touch with Kelli to let her know about Lenny?
Sorry to hear you're having issues.
Rocky is doing great now, no more cancer.
Lenny as you know is Rocky's older brother.
Kathryn
Is raw mince ok to feed them?
-
If I remember correctly from my time in Australia - "Beef Mince" is what us Americans call "Ground Beef" Is that right?
-
Just be careful in how much you feed. Since there tends to be fat in ground beef, depending on how much, he will get the runs.
I've just been through this episode myself. I've had to change Zina again and now she is on something called Origen that is basically a raw food that is baked and she absolutely loves it! She is back to being happy, because I think the raw depleted her nutrition level a bit.:) -
People feel that since dogs used to eat raw meat in the wild they should go back to that. I say no. Here's why. When the dog caught something it's usually consumed fairly soon. Fresh kill right. Meat is now gotten from cows that get treated and then handled through a processing plant, then shipped and then rehandled by a grocery store. There's too much handling and time gone by which could mean the meat has bacteria to make the dog sick. Stick with cooked meat.
-
Hmmm, depends Dan. I used a butcher, fresh meat and ground it myself. Even the people who pre-packaged the other food I bought used a butcher with fresh meat. Also: Fresh kill?? Did you know your beef hangs in a freezer for anywhere from 7 to 21 days before it is cut up for consumption?? That is aged beef.
-
Hmmm, depends Dan. I used a butcher, fresh meat and ground it myself. Even the people who pre-packaged the other food I bought used a butcher with fresh meat. Also: Fresh kill?? Did you know your beef hangs in a freezer for anywhere from 7 to 21 days before it is cut up for consumption?? That is aged beef.
Fresh kill I mean the dog has killed the animal right then for consumption, it's not processed.
-
Sorry, Dan, I've got to disagree. Based on the research I've done, IMO, dogs have a much different and shorter digestive system than humans do. Their digestive juices are made to deal with just about any bacteria you can throw at them and food makes it way through their system much faster, making it tough for bacteria to take hold and make them sick. That why dogs can find nasty, old dead stuff and eat it without getting sick. Also, wolves are not only hunters, they are also opportunistic scavengers, who will eat what they come upon, fresh or not.
I feel that ground beef, while not something you'd want to feed all the time, is a good "sometimes" meal, especially if it is a lower fat version (like 85/15). I personally feel it is best fed raw.
-
Sorry, Dan, I've got to disagree. Based on the research I've done, IMO, dogs have a much different and shorter digestive system than humans do. Their digestive juices are made to deal with just about any bacteria you can throw at them and food makes it way through their system much faster, making it tough for bacteria to take hold and make them sick. That why dogs can find nasty, old dead stuff and eat it without getting sick. Also, wolves are not only hunters, they are also opportunistic scavengers, who will eat what they come upon, fresh or not.
I feel that ground beef, while not something you'd want to feed all the time, is a good "sometimes" meal, especially if it is a lower fat version (like 85/15). I personally feel it is best fed raw.
I agree. Dogs have a very short digestive systems that is build for meat. And they can very well handle the bacteria. Some dogs even burry their meat and eat it a day or so later.. Tillo eats dead birds and mice if I don't watch him closely.. and believe me.. their is notting 'fresh' about it…..
If you want to give fresh meat.. you can go to a butcher directly..Not saying that everybody should feed raw.. (of course I believe everybody should.. ;))
-
My breeder feeds all her dogs meat but she always cooks it up - never raw.
-
Raw meat is more carnivorously-nutritious than cooked meat (cooking anything removes nutrients just by the cooking–heating--process), but cooked meat is more carnivorously-nutritious than kibble. JMO, of course.
-
Here's what I learned on the raw diet. Meat is only the base-you still have to add veggies and roughage. Not only that, you have to add organ meat as well. You also have to have a variety of meats-rabbit, venison, beef, chicken, etc. There is a product call BioVites that is like a vitamin and mineral supplement that people who do the raw add to the base. I'm sure there are other supplements as well. While, if you do it yourself, it is relatively inexpensive, it is also hard to get the diet correct. So, really, nutrition-wise, kibble is more balanced. JMO
-
Here's what I learned on the raw diet. Meat is only the base-you still have to add veggies and roughage. Not only that, you have to add organ meat as well. You also have to have a variety of meats-rabbit, venison, beef, chicken, etc. There is a product call BioVites that is like a vitamin and mineral supplement that people who do the raw add to the base. I'm sure there are other supplements as well. While, if you do it yourself, it is relatively inexpensive, it is also hard to get the diet correct. So, really, nutrition-wise, kibble is more balanced. JMO
I guess that depends on which raw diet you agree with. I'm with the whole-prey group. 80% meat, 10% organs, 10% bone, over time. No veggies or fruit as a staple of the diet (they'd have to be puree'd to offer any nutritional benefit as a dog's digestive system cannot break down cellulose to get to the nutrients). No grains as a staple (they can bring on allergies, and carnivores don't need them nutritionally and they don't need them for energy).
There are a few different schools of thought regarding feeding raw. You have to do your research and find the one that you agree with. The majority of pet owners do not feed a good quality kibble. Although my intention is not to an start argument, I'll say that there are very few brands of kibble that I would feel comfortable feeding my dog.
Please recognize that this all my opinion, based on research I have done. I am by no means suggesting people switch to raw without doing research on it. You should always be comfortable that you are feeding your dog the best way you can, whether it's kibble or raw or cooked.
-
Yes, you are right-it depends on which diet you are looking at. When trying to feed Zina, she was fine on the chicken and bone, as soon as I introduced some other things-her allergies started showing up.
The actual kibble I use for her is called Origen and it is a baked, raw food. If that makes any sense. Maybe we shouldn't continue this in this thread. I am interested in hearing more on the raw-anyone else??
-
Sorry, Dan, I've got to disagree. Based on the research I've done, IMO, dogs have a much different and shorter digestive system than humans do. Their digestive juices are made to deal with just about any bacteria you can throw at them and food makes it way through their system much faster, making it tough for bacteria to take hold and make them sick. That why dogs can find nasty, old dead stuff and eat it without getting sick. Also, wolves are not only hunters, they are also opportunistic scavengers, who will eat what they come upon, fresh or not.
I feel that ground beef, while not something you'd want to feed all the time, is a good "sometimes" meal, especially if it is a lower fat version (like 85/15). I personally feel it is best fed raw.
Sorry not true. I had my first basenji almost die in 1977 from bacterial poisoning from bad meat. 3 days stay with a vet. Throwing up, bleeding out the anus, etc.
-
Hmmm, some interesting replies. Yes, beef mince would be the same as ground beef. I didn't realise that there was a whole raw meat diet philosophy out there, though I'm not really that surprised I suppose. I only give my dog the 'ground beef' so that she eats the nutritious dry biscuits/kibble that I have mixed with it, I don't think that the gound beef alone would be nutritious enough.
Thanks for your replies! -
Sorry not true. I had my first basenji almost die in 1977 from bacterial poisoning from bad meat. 3 days stay with a vet. Throwing up, bleeding out the anus, etc.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that bacterial poisoning can't happen, just that there is not a big risk of it happening. In all my research about raw, I've come upon a few other "deaths by bacteria." Now I know about one more. I'm sorry you lost your dog this way, nobarkus.
-
Since I'm not exactly wealthy, I do feed a kibble diet most of the time and supplement with meat. What do you all (who obviously have a lot more knowledge on the subject) think of the Nutro Natural Choice brand of dry kibble?
-
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that bacterial poisoning can't happen, just that there is not a big risk of it happening. In all my research about raw, I've come upon a few other "deaths by bacteria." Now I know about one more. I'm sorry you lost your dog this way, nobarkus.
No no that's Ok, I almost lost her. She lived on for 17-1/2 great years. We're all here to help each other by exchanging information and experiences.
-
No no that's Ok, I almost lost her. She lived on for 17-1/2 great years. We're all here to help each other by exchanging information and experiences.
My bad. My eyes skipped over the "almost" part the first time I read it. How wonderful that she was with you for so long! That's amazing under any circumstances.
-
My bad. My eyes skipped over the "almost" part the first time I read it. How wonderful that she was with you for so long! That's amazing under any circumstances.
Thanks, her picture's in my gallery.
