Also, in re to Fanconi, if we ever want to eliminate the Fanconi disease in this breed we simply cannot have dogs who are untested being bred. I'm sure anyone whose pup ends up with Fanconi will still love their dog & care for them [hopefully using protocol] but the point is, buying a puppy whose parents haven't been tested means you are supporting the breeding of untested dogs & again, untested dogs could simply be spreading this awful disease when it would be beneficial for every single Basenji for the disease to go extinct.
The current DNA linked marker test that is being offered gives 4 possible results: Probably Clear/Normal, Probably Carrier, Probably Afflicted, and Indeterminate between Clear and Carrier. This is not the same as saying their status is the same as having no test information. From a puppy buyer's perspective an IND status means the dog will not become symptomatic for the disease. From a breeder's standpoint the dog should only be bred to dog that has tested Probably Clear.
Now, something that I think people also do not understand if they are looking for "just a pet" is exactly how much information and risk mitagation a responsible breeder can do from good in depth pedigree health data. OFA has a really good article on how to use vertical pedigree data to reduce the incidence of complex inherited disorders such as hip dysplaysia and they work. When you buy from a responsible breeder they collect this information and use it to make as good a breeding choice as they can from the information available. It is not perfect but it is far better than shear dumb luck. With DNA testing there is no guess work, if a dog has a clear parent and the disorder is recessive then they will not get the disease.
Also, heather, it isn't that puppy mill puppies shouldn't be bought because of health [although that is many invidiausl reasoning] but it's because of the living conditions these poor animals [the sire & dam] are put through to have their puppies. They are money makers, plain & simple. I don't think any human being would want to be put through that treatment so why should we put man's best friend?
Actually, I'd say puppy mill puppies shouldn't be bought because everytime a puppy mill puppy is purchased from a pet store, it keeps the puppy mill in business…simple equation of supply and demand. And a purchase (which keeps the mills in business) thus supports the deplorable living conditions of the animals and the complete disregard of the health of the animals being bred and the puppies that are being sold.
Imagine a world with no pet stores that sold live animals...without that sort of outlet to sell large amounts puppies, it would be tough to keep puppy mills running.
do you even realize the amount of dogs on the internet for sale? puppyfind.com had over 350 basenji puppies on it when i looked at it in january. even if Pet stores were not around they would still get sold. until you can shut down every website that is used to sell dogs nothing will ever change. i dont think you realize that.
and nina, im not saying that adopting a dog is the same as purchasing a puppy mill puppy.. youre just getting the same stock. temperment, and all that is unknown in adopting just as bad as if you are buying from a pet store. and if youre breeding a dog well then yeah, health is important, but if youre getting your dog fixed, it doesnt really matter what conditon the dog MAY or MAY NOT have.
I always feel so sorry for any breed of dog kept at those horror puppymills.
Its just awful! Someday, maybe we will be able to save them all.
I would be so interested to see how many of these e-mail ads are put out by puppymillers…
Anyone have any idea?
Heather, this is why education and one dog at a time will work.
It won't be quick...but if nothing else, it helps the dog we are working with.
It has to start somewhere...rescue and education are the key, imo.
i agree. i just dont understand how someone can say the only way to have a dog is to buy from a breeder.. or adopt ( which is the same type of stock that would be found in a pet store and theres NO information on the dog at all) im not saying puppy mills are okay, because they arent. But to say that its a consumers fault that they are still around is completely mind boggling to me. Shouldn't it be the governments fault? the USDA or something along those lines ? To blame consumers for puppy mills existing is crazy to me.
do you even realize the amount of dogs on the internet for sale? puppyfind.com had over 350 basenji puppies on it when i looked at it in january. even if Pet stores were not around they would still get sold. until you can shut down every website that is used to sell dogs nothing will ever change. i dont think you realize that.
Ummmm…yes...I realize that they are for sale on the internet, I know the internet well 
. I failed to use the internet in my simple example. So the same would be said for purchasing a dog over the internet. No demand, no supply, no business...same exact issue. The key is educating people to why they should buy from responsible breeders.
lol just pointing it out
but like i've said before.. not everyone can AFFORD to do that.
and online, a lot of them are CHEAPER than a breeder, not more expensive, like in a pet store.
do you even realize the amount of dogs on the internet for sale? puppyfind.com had over 350 basenji puppies on it when i looked at it in january. even if Pet stores were not around they would still get sold. until you can shut down every website that is used to sell dogs nothing will ever change. i dont think you realize that.
and nina, im not saying that adopting a dog is the same as purchasing a puppy mill puppy.. youre just getting the same stock. temperment, and all that is unknown in adopting just as bad as if you are buying from a pet store. and if youre breeding a dog well then yeah, health is important, but if youre getting your dog fixed, it doesnt really matter what conditon the dog MAY or MAY NOT have.
Shutting down pet stores that sell live animals may not entirely shut down puppy mills, but i would assume it would have a great affect on their business. I am going to guess that throughout the US a lot of puppymill sales come from pet stores. It may not change everything, but I also wouldnt say its going to change nothing getting these pet stores out of business.
You say puppy mill pups will get sold even if pet stores get shut down, but at least getting pet stores that sell live animals shut down is one step in the right direction. I dont mean to be mean but it is a very simple concept that ANY sales (supplies, food, animals)from a pet store that sells animals helps to keep puppy mills in business. If these pet stores are making money and staying open, they are buying animals from puppy mills.
Although shutting down live animal pet stores would only be fixing one part of the problem and websites would still be around, i, and i'm sure a lot of others would be VERY HAPPY with the progress 
Pet stores that sell puppies are horrible businesses and if you have seen videos of puppy mills or are informed about them i dont understand how you can support buying ANYTHING from these pet stores. And not to mention, the puppies are WAY overpriced, and can be purchased from a responsible breeder for less, so the excuse of buying from a pet store becasue not being able to afford a responsible breeder is rubbish.
And I dont think anyone in this thread has even touched on the fact that pet store puppies (or internet) are not required to get spayed or neutered, which is also a HUGE problem!
I'm sorry this is long and I am venting, but as you can tell i am disgusted with pet stores. I will never understand how people work for or own these stores and puppy mills. Also, I do not mean to offend anyone who has purchased a dog from a pet store if they were uniformed and didnt know where the puppies came from or didnt know about puppy mills. But I do think it is the job of consumers who do know about puppy mills to try and inform those who dont. I know there is only so much one individual can do, but spreading the word about these horrible puppy mills and educating others can only help.
Heather…Yes, but then I'll take it back full circle to a post from lvoss...if someone can't afford to purchase from a responsible breeder, than a consideration should be can the person afford to care for the pet...a spay costs upwards of $300...when Ruby had to go to the vet for her shots it was $125, and when she was sick last fall the vet visit was $75. It all takes budgeting and then there is the emergency care...
If a person has their heart set on having an animal and can't afford to go to a reputable breeder then rescue or a shelter is a better option than buying cheaply over the internet. I'm having a hard time here because I can't imagine considering purchasing an animal based on whether I could "get it cheaper" or "get a good deal" on the internet. And I can't imagine the better deal weighing higher than the knowledge of the breed and health testing that a reputable breeder brings to the table.
If a person has their heart set on having an animal and can't afford to go to a reputable breeder then rescue or a shelter is a better option than buying cheaply over the internet. I'm having a hard time here because I can't imagine considering purchasing an animal based on whether I could "get it cheaper" or "get a good deal" on the internet. And I can't imagine the better deal weighing higher than the knowledge of the breed and health testing that a reputable breeder brings to the table.
I agree with you 100%!
I just think that some people dont think about health or knowledge of the breed when buying a puppy and just want the cute little thing they see in the picture or store window, with no information whatsoever. This situation is just a sad and unfortunate reality.
OFA has a really good article on how to use vertical pedigree data to reduce the incidence of complex inherited disorders such as hip dysplaysia and they work. When you buy from a responsible breeder they collect this information and use it to make as good a breeding choice as they can from the information available. It is not perfect but it is far better than shear dumb luck. With DNA testing there is no guess work, if a dog has a clear parent and the disorder is recessive then they will not get the disease.
That pdf was really interesting and clear…thanks for posting it!
It is true that we need education so people stop buying from millers and BYBs over the internet. From the people I have talked to who thought they were getting a better deal by buying over the internet from one of these "cheaper breeders" in the end they spent more and got less than if they had gotten a dog from a responsible breeder. By the time they added the shipping costs and health certificate they ended up paying more. They also did not get the health testing, microchip, life long support that they would have gotten from a responsible breeder. If someone can not afford to get a dog from a responsible breeder then adopting a rescue is a way to responsibly add a dog to their home but they still must consider what they will do if an emergency situation occurs.
"Just wanting a pet" does not excuse a person from taking responsibility for their choices and their consequences. It also does not mean they should not want and expect a healthy, sound tempered pet that they can enjoy for many years. But if they are willing to gamble on a questionable background then instead of supporting people who see their dog as a dollar sign, save the life of a dog that needs a home because its was part of that cycle without supporting the cycle.
And even if you are trying to buy over the internet… here is a clue.. responsible breeders want to meet their puppy buyers... or at least if nothing else have another responsible breeder in the area "check" them out... and to address the subject of health testing.. it is buyer beware... nothing different then buying anything else on line...
It fails to amaze me that people will purchase a puppy on line... with nothing more then sending a payment... never ask about the pedigree of the pups... health testing.. etc... they spend more time buying a car then a living breathing animal....
I think the internet and pet shops cater to the
"I want it now" group.
They have a credit card, a desire to get something new or impluse buy a pup when walking in the mall.
Little thought goes into the health or temperment of the parents….
JMO
Wow. The more I read here, the more I get depressed about a Basenji's life. And this is based on the stereotype that all B's are 'discipline problems'. Seems like the majority of dog's life involves being born, hustled to a pet store (with the exception of reputable breeders, who seem to be a MINORITY in the B world), bartered over, sold, got rid of because he/she was a problem for the purchaser, dog gets dropped on the side of the road or put into a shelter…. Seems like a crappy life to me. I couldn't be more proud of having adopted mine from BRAT and 'saving his life'. Tucker will never need another home nor will he be abandoned or not taken care of. Unfortunately, I'm the FIFTH owner. How's that for a life? Either way, thank god we found each other.
I agree with the statement made above that if you can't afford to get a dog from a reputable breeder, then you prolly can't afford to take care of one either. Hell, an adopted dog or a rescue dog could cost WAY more than a pet store dog in the long run, but in both cases, you have no idea what you are getting. The benefit of a reputable breeder is that you DO know what you are getting. If I were to get a puppy, that is where I would get it from. Until I'm capable of caring for a puppy, I'll just keep stealing problem dogs from BRAT.
Until I'm capable of caring for a puppy, I'll just keep stealing problem dogs from BRAT.
Not all dogs in rescue are "problem dogs". I think it is that belief that turns many people off of rescue. I have volunteered for rescue and many of the dogs we took in were being given up because the home did not have time for the dog. We did get some who needed a little basic training because they had just never had any and could use a way to better communicate but many already had some basic behaviors. Some dogs come with more baggage than others but there are a lot of really great dogs in rescue and in shelters.
My first basenji was a pet store dog. I had researched the breed and knew what I wanted. I just didn't "know" about breeders I just (wrongly) assumed the only way to get a dog was through a pet store, or adopt with a rescue/shelter. I am now better educated and my 2nd basenji came from BRAT. She was rescued from a BYB. I am fully on board with NOT buying from a pet store. Even though Cody my first dog is beautiful, heathly boy and I love him, I now see basenjis popping up all over at my local pet stores. I know if no one bought them they wouldn't continue to get them. I know many of us want an "older"(not a puppy) dog. Please utilize rescue groups for adoption of basenji. The dogs are screened and placed where the dog can achieve a happy full life. My 2nd dog Aurora is now 9yrs old and the love and affection we have shared had greatly enriched both of our lives.
There are still so many people that think that the only place to get a puppy is a pet store, the key is education. Of course now with the internet it is much harder to educate… however, many responsible breeders are posting on the internet at many of these sites, like puppyfind. Hopefully by reading what people are writing about their pups, people are reading. Also breeders have their own sites...
