Whining That Never Stops!

[rheidt]

The problem with this solution however is there is physically no room in the kitchen for the xpen you speak of. I'm not even sure if the xpen would be an option as she is a jumper, even if there is a top and bottom to it, she I believe, would find a way out. I have looked into classes for her and I to start attending. I would love to find a solution that will work. If this xpen is the only option, I'm afraid that I will have no choice but to rehome her. Which deeply saddens me because I do believe that there are other choices out there, then just this option.

[sharronhurlbut]

If your really considering rehoming her, you need to get in touch with your breeder.
If you send your breeders name and the kennel name and AKC info to this list, we might be able to help you find this person.
All legit breeders want to know when there are issues with their dogs and will help the new owners work through them.
Good breeders are a wonderful thing to have in your corner when you have a basenji that is giving you issues.

[Quercus]

Classes are not the solution for this dog, unfortunately. Neither are treats in the crate. You will need to start retraining her to use a crate, and that will mean you will need another place to keep her when you can't be there. If you haven't *tried having her in a room while you are gone, she might surprise you. Our male is extremely crate phobic; he has done every single thing you mentioned (except get as an eviciton notice, since we have always had no neighbors since we have had him). At about a year old we tried allowing him to have access to part of the house while we were gone. He has never destroyed anything (except for left over food that was left out). He has destroyed many things that were pulled into his crate in a frenzy.

The medication you mentioned will only work with a positive reinforcement retraining program. It won't just magically make her calm in her crate. This behavior acts like a true phobia, in that there is no logical reason why the dog is panicked, and dogs will really hurt themselves in an effort to get out of the crate.

There ARE other choices, but you have to really be committed to trying them. And something you think won't work, might. It may be that you aren't in the situation right now that will allow some of the options (living in a certain place, or with certain neighbors) and in that case, rehoming her might be the best option.

Unfortunately, a lot of the methods you have already tried (particularly the shock collar) probably made the situation even worse. Imagine if you were already terrified, and somebody made you wear something even more scary only when you were in the place that scared you. Not good.

A friend of mine has THE best crate training method I have ever seen. If you PM me your email address, I will forward it to her, and I am sure she will give you a ton of good advice.

[rheidt]

I guess consider me a bad pet owner, but I don't have that information. When I got her, they didn't have any papers for her. Also, I really don't want to rehome her. But I just can't seem to find anyone who can really help with the issue at hand. Does no one have any other advice? I mean, I'm gladly going to try to find a way of feeding her in her kennel. That is something I can work on, and if that would help, of course I'll do that. I am willing to try things to help her, however, xpen is not an option, nor leaving her out of a crate is an option. So if someone knows of a great way, that includes feeding her in her crate, of crate training or the process in which I should go about doing that. That would be great. I'm looking for resolution to the problem not a way to rehome her right now.

[MaxBooBooBear]

I took Max who had a very mild case of separation anxiety to a veternary behavioral specialist at UC Davis Veterinary College. She told me that basenjis are the most difficult breed to work with for separation anxiety. Meds do help in some cases. Having a canine companion can help in some cases–have you tried that? My personal opinion is that basenjis are a pack breed and most are happiest with either a canine or human companion. Basenjis with separation anxiety seem to be extremely difficult to crate train--I don't believe it's a matter of "training" in their case--it's a matter of desensitizing them to the situation which is a very slow process. Their destructive behavior when left alone is usually due to their extreme anxiety. Max was not particularly destructive unless left alone. One time, he shut the door of one of my spare bedrooms and was shut in by himself without his companion Pepper. He destroyed everything in the room--tore the drapes down off the wall and destroyed them, pulled the phone out from the wall and destroyed it--etc etc. They are miserable when they are in this state--and if there's anything that can be done for her--even if it has to be rehoming her with someone who can be with her most of the time--to be in a happier state most of the time, it needs to be done for her best interest.

[rheidt]

Okay, so am I understanding that because I can't give her an xpen or because I can't lock her in a room, the best solution is to rehome her? What is going to happen if I rehome her and these issues continue? Chances are she'll be put down then, even if I rehome her through BRAT or go through the classifieds. She has a great home where she's at. I'm just curious where the conclusion came up that her home isn't good enough or that I'm not able to work with her. Pardon me, if I seem a bit defensive, but I'm wanting to help her and I'm wanting to work with her, I'm asking for the best way to go about it.

Methods I've used to try to help her are as follows: shock collar(left on her for not even a half hour, the thing didn't work so I took it back), she also was put on puppy prozac and I did start with positive reinforcement training. I'm actually still doing positive reinforcement training with her. She's just not on the medicine anymore. As of now, those are the only two methods I've tried. And if all you guys have, is the idea of rehoming her, then I'm stumped.

I really do appreciate any help you can offer in ways of training. I'm asking for tactics you might have used in your process of training your basenji's. Cuz we all know they didn't train themselves.

[Quercus]

Well, yeah, you do seem defensive. We have actually offered a lot of ideas, but there are obviously reasons why they won't work for you. A lot of us have dogs like yours; we found ways to make it work; we are telling you those ways; they may not work for you. That doesn't mean we aren't trying to help.

The gist of crate retraining is simple. You make the dog want to go in the crate by putting something irresistable in there. You build the suspense and desire to go in, and eventually open the crate door to let her in. Then as she gets the treat you let her right back out. The trick is not shutting her into the crate in the beginning stages of training. You have to totally desensitize her to the door being shut; and then to the door being shut, and you walking away; and then add in you leaving the house. It isn't something you can do and still be needing to close her into a crate for hours per day. You have to find somehow else to keep her safe while you retrain her.

I can totally understand that you WANT to keep your dog. YOU are the one who mentioned rehoming first…so I figured you consider that a real option.

And no, she wouldn't necessarily be in the same situation in a new home, because they might be able to keep her in a confined, safe room; or use an x-pen; or have no neighbors that could her here scream; or have a doggie door where she could go in and out; or have kennel runs outside where she could go in and out. BRAT does a great job of finding homes for dogs with known 'baggage' They certainly would not allow crate screaming to be a cause for euthanasia. Like I said, most people who have basenjis have had one, or known one that has this "crate phobia"

I will put you in contact with my friend, Cheryl. She will be able to help, if you can find a way for her method to work in your house.

[sharronhurlbut]

We are trying to help you.
This is not a quick easy fix.
YOU want to keep her, we get that, so we give you lots of info.
BUT your the one who will need to do it and it won't happen fast.
If your expecting a quick fix, then you will be the one who is unhappy.
MAKE the crate wonderful.
Make her want to go in it.
Its all up to you.
Oh, I am a BRAT person.
I have a crate phobic dog.
We have made our house one where there is NO crate.
Again, not easy or quick…we dealt with a lot of things when the dog was loose in the house.
So, really, its up to you.

[rheidt]

I do appreciate your crate retraining info. I'd be glad to try to make it work. As well as you putting me in contact with your friend. If you could kindly answer a question regarding the crate training, I do believe I'd be able to make it work. You say that I cannot crate her while retraining her, but rather find her an alternative while I retrain her. First off, how long does this process typically take? I'm asking for planning purposes, if I would possible need to take her to doggie day care, then I could plan that in for the time it could possible take. Second, do you recommend a crate where she has a little extra room or one that allows her to stand up, turn around and lay back down?

[phoenix3]

Honestly in my option it sounds like she's not getting enough exercise witch is a huge problem with high energy dogs I would make time to walk her 2x a day maybe get a long flexi and let her run around alittle better maybe in a park that way she can run alittle further and get alittle more energy out I don't crate my dogs cuz they have serious issues when crated so i decided it was easier to train them to be good in the house then go threw that "hell" again I think for the time being while u are looking into other idea's I would bring her running for a bit maybe 1hr before u leave then give her some benadryl about 30 mins before putting her in the crate until u can find another idea that might work better for her the Vets also have a sedative that they can give some dogs Trust me i know what u mean about not wanting to give her up and try everything first i am going threw that now with the neighbors getting sick of the dog barking i am trying all and every option i can. I tried many other things the stuff u get at petsmart that suppose to calm them down that u plug in didn't work the bach's rescue remedy didn't work the only thing that has for the time being has been the long walks before i leave and the benadryl {hopefully when his meds kick in i won't have to use the benadryl any longer} I wouldnt suggest using the benadryl as a long term fix but maybe it will get u threw alittle bit till u can find something that will work for the both of u. And for a behaviorist to say There's no hope for her I think the person needs to get out of that bussiness cuz there's always a way to correct a behavior might not be a quick fix and take quite some time but there is never a NO HOPE DOG :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[phoenix3]

Also can u maybe move the crate to your room ? maybe with the smell of u and your stuff might help her alittle in knowing she's not put in the basement.

[sharronhurlbut]

If you can't crate the dog, then making the space safe that she is in when your gone is the key.
Give lots of chew toys to keep her busy.
Make her walk every morning before you go to work.
We use, coats, raincoats and we make the dogs goes.
Every morning this dog should come in tired and ready to sleep.
When you get home, again, more exercise…
then in the evening, she plays with you, throw toys, give chew bones..keep her awake and busy.
A tired basenji is a good basenji.
Drugs are only good for very short term.
Good luck.

[rheidt]

@phoenix3:

then give her some benadryl about 30 mins before putting her in the crate until u can find another idea that might work better for her

How much do you give?

[Mia]

I'll speak from my experience only as I am far from having a huge knowledge on this. My B was extremly crate phobic!!! one day I came home (after being gone for only an hour) and she had wedged herslf half way through the door, between the 2 latches (stuck at waist level)! I was horrified and never used the crate on her after that, she was 5 months and she is now 9 months. What I did was leave her in the house for 5 min increments at a time and made sure it was "puppy proof" before I left. So slowly but surely I was up to a couple of hours with no problem. After the crate incident I tried putting her in the bathroom, no luck either, there was so much poop and everything I had put in there was destroyed! So now we leave her to roam about the house (we close the bedroom doors since it's carpet just in case). She was extremly, I guess you could say chlostrophobic , she's like that even in the car until I put the convertable top down then she is fine. Although if I have to leave her for more than 4 hours I bring her to a great doggy day care, look into those, I know the ones here are better than most child day care, and pretty affordable. The 1st step is I would try to step out of the house for just 5 min, and see if she has destroyed anything. Mia is usually fast asleep on her fav chair when we get home and happy as a clam. IMO I think the enclosed space tells them something is wrong, meanwhile if they can go the places they usually can go they might just think you are in another room doing something else. but the others have much more experience in this field than I do, so try their options. Good luck as I know how frustrating it is

[phoenix3]

My vet has me given Aspen a 22 lbs dog 25 milligrams {pill} or if u get the liquid cuz its watered down 2 TEASPOONS 10CC if u have a syringe again i would use this short term until u can find a thing that will work for the 2 of u

[tanza]

@rheidt:

I do appreciate your crate retraining info. I'd be glad to try to make it work. As well as you putting me in contact with your friend. If you could kindly answer a question regarding the crate training, I do believe I'd be able to make it work. You say that I cannot crate her while retraining her, but rather find her an alternative while I retrain her. First off, how long does this process typically take? I'm asking for planning purposes, if I would possible need to take her to doggie day care, then I could plan that in for the time it could possible take. Second, do you recommend a crate where she has a little extra room or one that allows her to stand up, turn around and lay back down?

NO one can tell you how long it will take to re-train could be days, weeks, or months….. or even if it will ever work.. some just can't be crated... and yes I would recommend a crate with some room... what size have you been using?

[phoenix3]

But i do have to add if your only given her the benadryl and not the running then it won't work as well . All the Benadryl is going to do is add to her being alittle sleepy and calm her nerves alittle so she's not freaking out as much but if she's not getting the exercise before it might acaully make her NOT sleepy and calm and just freak out more So PLEASE don't just give her that and not the exercise cuz u don't want it working backwards for u or her.

[tanza]

@phoenix3:

But i do have to add if your only given her the benadryl and not the running then it won't work as well . All the Benadryl is going to do is add to her being alittle sleepy and calm her nerves alittle so she's not freaking out as much but if she's not getting the exercise before it might acaully make her NOT sleepy and calm and just freak out more So PLEASE don't just give her that and not the exercise cuz u don't want it working backwards for u or her.

And even with benadryl, if she is already starting to get hyper when you give it..it could and sometimes does make it worse… just like Phoenix says....

Sad to say, but there is no quick fix to a phobic crate dog....

[Quercus]

@phoenix3:

But i do have to add if your only given her the benadryl and not the running then it won't work as well . All the Benadryl is going to do is add to her being alittle sleepy and calm her nerves alittle so she's not freaking out as much but if she's not getting the exercise before it might acaully make her NOT sleepy and calm and just freak out more So PLEASE don't just give her that and not the exercise cuz u don't want it working backwards for u or her.

Also, Benadryl makes some dogs MORE excitable instead of less.

[wizard]

When I first acquired EL D, he had a reputation for total destruction with the previous owner. He destroyed two crates (even though he used to live in crates), tore up bathroom, destroyed furniture, etc etc. whenever left alone I brought him home knowing all this. I never did meds but instead I arranged a couple days of vacation and spent time to work with EL since he couldn't be crated again, first I stayed with him loose in the kitchen (doors to rest of house were closed or I put up a gate- gate had plexiglass instead of wood or plastic bars, so nothing for him to chew), he had lots of toys, and his bed. Of course I spent as much time as I could playing with him (I have a fenced yard) or taking him for walks (even now ith the cold we still go outside if only for 5 minutes). When evening came I would sit in the kitchen reading or whatever, gradually turning down lights, until he calmed down. Then I'd go to bed. In the mornings I would get up extra early and let him play and run in the yard for exercise. Over the next couple of days I would begin to leave the house for short periods, leaving a talk radio on, kong toys available, and gradually my absences getting longer. Eventually I began to open other rooms of the house to him. All this time he never destroyed anything worthwhile (toys yes, papers yes - no big deal) despite his reputation. Now he has full run of the house with no problems.