Puppy socialization

[wizard]

Welcome to the forum - you'll learn lots of good info here. Can't help on the puppy training age - I'm sure someone will chime in.

[tanza]

You really should try for the puppy class, it is the best for early socialization bar none… IMO.... Who is your breeder?... and have you tried looking around for other classes? Maybe on a weekend? My personal opinion would be that you are going to miss much of the really really necessary early socialization to wait..

[mriddoch]

My breeder is Dee Griffin in Beeville, about two hours south of San Antonio. I want to get her in to class around 10 to 12 weeks old. Do you think I should try to get her in at an earlier age? My question is: is there much difference in a beginner class for 10 week old to 5 month old puppies vs. a beginner class for 5 month old and older?
I would do a weekend class but I'm helping a friend remodel a house out of town on weekends, so I can't be consitant with a weekend class. He has two Golden Retrievers so she'll get some socialization around them.

[lvoss]

For most places, yes there is a big difference between puppy classes and beginner's classes. With my first dog, I took him through the beginner's class and no puppy class. I will never do that again. He missed so much socialization and interaction with other dogs. IMO the socialization part of the puppy class is very important and is not part of the beginner's class.

I would look around for a puppy class that fits your schedule. Remember, that puppies learn so much that shapes them as adults so it is really important to make the time to make sure your puppy gets a good start.

[mriddoch]

Thanks for your help. This forum is a great help and I don't even have my basenji yet! I will look for puppy specific classes. I will pick her up at 8 weeks old. Do you think I should start puppy class before 10 weeks?

[tanza]

@mriddoch:

Thanks for your help. This forum is a great help and I don't even have my basenji yet! I will look for puppy specific classes. I will pick her up at 8 weeks old. Do you think I should start puppy class before 10 weeks?

10 wks should be fine… make sure that your breeder has DNA tested for Fanconi... among other health testing... if you visit www.basenjihealth.org you can learn about Fanconi testing and links to other health concerns in our breed. It is very important that all responsible breeders are health testing all of their Basenjis used for breeding.

[WBL]

@tanza:

10 wks should be fine… make sure that your breeder has DNA tested for Fanconi... among other health testing... if you visit www.basenjihealth.org you can learn about Fanconi testing and links to other health concerns in our breed. It is very important that all responsible breeders are health testing all of their Basenjis used for breeding.

I don't know about in San Antonio but I know the Pet-Smarts in Maryland the pup has to have it's rabies shot first. Because basenji's are smaller dogs, I think a pup class would be a better option. The beginner and puppy class at Pet-Smart are the same class, it's just the age difference. They also do talk about more puppy hood subjects. The actual training is the same basics of sit, down, come, walking on leash, etc

Welcome to the forum and please update us with pictures when you get your girl.

[mriddoch]

@tanza:

10 wks should be fine… make sure that your breeder has DNA tested for Fanconi... among other health testing... if you visit www.basenjihealth.org you can learn about Fanconi testing and links to other health concerns in our breed. It is very important that all responsible breeders are health testing all of their Basenjis used for breeding.

Both parents have been tested and are Fanconi Negative.

[mriddoch]

Thanks everyone for the help. I signed her up for puppy class today. I'll post again with pictures when I pick her up.

[tanza]

@mriddoch:

Both parents have been tested and are Fanconi Negative.

That is great, who are the sire and dam? Not to be a negative person, but did you check it out on the OFA site to see if they were posted there?

[mriddoch]

The sire is CH Asil Walkabout by Eldorado. I checked on the OFA site and I see he has not been tested. It looks like both his parents (Eldarado Hocus Pocus and Terrarust N. Beaubri Makersmark) have been tested and are negative. The dam is Remba Naima Kibibi and I cannot find her nor her parents on the OFA site. I'll contact the breeder and see how they have determined she is negative. It is my understanding that Fanconi's syndrome is from a recessive gene and if both the sire's parents are negative he should be negative. Please let me know if that is not correct. Thanks for your concern. I certainly want to clear this up before I pick her up in two weeks

[lvoss]

The test that we have for Fanconi is a linked Marker test. If you read the OFA website on "clear by parentage" you will see that OFA will not issue a "clear by parentage" certificate based on a linked Marker test and recommend that all breeding animals be tested. Even for the direct gene test they do require that the dog and its parents have DNA profiles to prove the pedigree. So, yes, two clear dogs should produce only clear offspring but all animals that are being bred regardless of their parents results should have been tested before breeding.

[mriddoch]

I e mailed my breeder this morning. She says they have put a hold on blood testing while they develop a more sensitive test to eliminate probable or possible results. She states she got her blood samples in too late but they are suppose to restart testing in the next few months. Currently, she checks their urine each month. Now what do I do? I have no plans to breed the pup and the breeder states that she will not allow her litters to be bred. If the pup is a carrier it should not affect her health. Any thoughts?

[tanza]

@mriddoch:

I e mailed my breeder this morning. She says they have put a hold on blood testing while they develop a more sensitive test to eliminate probable or possible results. She states she got her blood samples in too late but they are suppose to restart testing in the next few months. Currently, she checks their urine each month. Now what do I do? I have no plans to breed the pup and the breeder states that she will not allow her litters to be bred. If the pup is a carrier it should not affect her health. Any thoughts?

Note: My opinion only… A responsible breeders tests BEFORE THEY BREED.. this is a really really big pet peeve for me. This test has been available since July 2007 there is NO reason that any litter born this fall/winter should NOT have had the sire and dam tested before breeding, period...

If the sire and dam of the "sire" are clear on the OFA site, then you can be "pretty" sure that the sire is clear, but there is no acceptance of clear by parentage by OFA at this time. As for your pup, Should be the worst that she would be is a Carrier and this should no effect her health, however the recommendation by Dr Gary Johnson is that Carriers be strip tested until the direct test is available. But most of us are pretty sure that Carriers will not develop Fanconi.

Of course this also means that neither have had their hips tested? Eye's Cerf'ed, Thyroid tested, to name a few? All of that information would be on the OFA site also...with the possible exception of Cerf... as some breeders don't pay to post the results (not saying that is right or wrong, but if not posted then they, the breeder, should be able to supply puppy buyers with a copy of the Cerf report)

IMO, this is not a responsible breeder as there is no excuse for not testing dogs that you are breeding...

[lvoss]

@mriddoch:

I e mailed my breeder this morning. She says they have put a hold on blood testing while they develop a more sensitive test to eliminate probable or possible results. She states she got her blood samples in too late but they are suppose to restart testing in the next few months. Currently, she checks their urine each month. Now what do I do? I have no plans to breed the pup and the breeder states that she will not allow her litters to be bred. If the pup is a carrier it should not affect her health. Any thoughts?

I agree with Pat, there is no reason any dogs that have been bred this season should have been untested at the time of breeding. The test was offered in July as a service to breeders for this breeding season. The basenji community has urged people to submit samples to the DNA databank at Missouri for at least 2 years prior to the test being offered so that their samples would be there when a test became available. Even those who had no samples in the databank had plenty of time before the fall breeding season to test animals that they had plans to breed. Puppies born in November are from matings that took place in September, puppies born in December are from matings in October. This means the breeder had at least 6-8 weeks to submit the samples and get results prior to a September breeding.

Then there is also the issues of the other diseases known in basenjis and health testing for them. Since there is no DNA test for those breeders must use test results for all the dogs in the pedigree including siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. to predict the likelihood of that dog producing the disorder. If you are unable to find any test data for the parents of the litter it is highly unlikely that the breeder has enough data to use to predict the likelihood of the puppies having a disease. It is far easier to say "I have no known health problems" when you never look for them then when you are doing the testing. Responsible breeders will be honest about what problems may have shown up in their line and be willing to discuss what breeding strategies they are using to prevent them in the future. I would be wary of any breeder who is not willing to look at a 4-5 generation pedigree with you and discuss the health of the dogs with verifiable test results to back them up.

[mriddoch]

The sire has had hip test as fair. Nothing on the dam. I need to think about what I need to do. I could have the pup tested when the blood test becomes available again (although that shouldn't be my responsibility), but I wonder if I need to support this breeder. I was sure looking forward to getting a pup

[lvoss]

I PM'd you with contact information for Asil's Walkabout by ElDorado's breeder. I really urge you to contact her about the history of the dog.

It is good that you are doing the research now so you can get a puppy that you will enjoy for a long time to come from a breeder who will be there to support you through all the ups and downs of basenji ownership. There are many resources availalbe through this forum to help you find a responsibly bred puppy.

[tanza]

@mriddoch:

The sire has had hip test as fair. Nothing on the dam. I need to think about what I need to do. I could have the pup tested when the blood test becomes available again (although that shouldn't be my responsibility), but I wonder if I need to support this breeder. I was sure looking forward to getting a pup

That is a bit of a scary thought if the sire is fair and the dam is not OFA'ed for hips… In looking at the pedigree on the sire, there are at least two 1/2 sibs that have fair hips also. At least all the rest are good or excellent.. but you know, I would have wanted to see the dam's hips done. Certainly IMO this dog should have only been bred to a good or excellent for hips with a vertical pedigree history of good hips. While hips are not a big problem, certainly without testing it can be... and unlike Fanconi, hips OFA are not on the open database, meaning that unless the owner agrees the results if not Fair or better will not be published.
Looking at the dam's pedigree on www.pedigrees.zandebasenjis.com, there is no DNA testing for Fanconi in any of the dogs and I know for a fact that some have had or produced Fanconi affected. AGAIN REMEMBER IT IS PRETTY CERTAIN THAT YOUR PUP WOULD BE NO WORST THEN A CARRIER… There is one 1/2 sibling that is a clear noted on the pedigree website. Also there are some hip problems in the pedigree of the dam. But again without testing you have not a clue.

As far as responsibility of testing for Fanconi... IMO, even if the Dam was done, I would want to have my pup tested... but that is just me... and of course she (the breeder) should have had the bitch tested way before breeding...

[tanza]

And there are other breeders that are responsible in TX.. if you go to www.basenji.org and then to the breeder directory you can contact other breeders

[mriddoch]

@lvoss:

I PM'd you with contact information for Asil's Walkabout by ElDorado's breeder. I really urge you to contact her about the history of the dog.

It is good that you are doing the research now so you can get a puppy that you will enjoy for a long time to come from a breeder who will be there to support you through all the ups and downs of basenji ownership. There are many resources availalbe through this forum to help you find a responsibly bred puppy.

I e mailed her after I got your IM. Hope to hear back from her in the next day or so.