First Attack

[Duke]

I don't know what exactly provoked Duke to attack Daisy today. I opened up 2 new bags of dog food. I like to mix dog food together and as I was scooping, kibbles would drop on the floor. Both dogs patiently waited for the kibbles to drop. I was being careful not to drop any, when "suddenly", Duke all out attacked Daisy. Awful growls included in the attack, two feet from me! :eek: Instantly, I smacked Duke on his rear side. (I know I shouldn't hit, but it was a knee jerk reaction). Daisy was squealing. Duke submitted to me. I put him in his crate. After about 10 minutes - I went to the crate with Daisy and talked to him. (silly me, I know) But I told him we don't bite! He knows "no bite". I told him to give Daisy a kiss and no bites. Well he let her kiss him.

This is the first time I know of that Duke attacked her. They have their daily play-brawls and sometimes I need to stop them - but this wasn't part of that banter - he just went into her. Do you think he was doing his alpha dog thing? What in a dogs world was going on? Next time I mix the food, they'll be outside. Daisy is OK.

[tanza]

Remember the thing usually about fights, if there is lots of noise.. while it might look and sound terrible.. usually is not much of a fignt… it is the silent ones that they mean business... and in your case I would think that food was the problem.... and I don't blame you for smacking Duke, I would have too... needed to get his attention off Daisy and to you... And I don't know if I would call that a "real" attack.... just remember things like food are an invitation to trouble.

[Duke]

Thanks Tanza. Duke is a noisy boy. If this wasn't a real attack, I'd hate to find out what that would be like. Just awful . . .

[JazzysMom]

@Duke:

I don't know what exactly provoked Duke to attack Daisy today. I opened up 2 new bags of dog food. I like to mix dog food together and as I was scooping, kibbles would drop on the floor. Both dogs patiently waited for the kibbles to drop. I was being careful not to drop any, when "suddenly", Duke all out attacked Daisy. Awful growls included in the attack, two feet from me! :eek: Instantly, I smacked Duke on his rear side. (I know I shouldn't hit, but it was a knee jerk reaction). Daisy was squealing. Duke submitted to me. I put him in his crate. After about 10 minutes - I went to the crate with Daisy and talked to him. (silly me, I know) But I told him we don't bite! He knows "no bite". I told him to give Daisy a kiss and no bites. Well he let her kiss him.

This is the first time I know of that Duke attacked her. They have their daily play-brawls and sometimes I need to stop them - but this wasn't part of that banter - he just went into her. Do you think he was doing his alpha dog thing? What in a dogs world was going on? Next time I mix the food, they'll be outside. Daisy is OK.

This is EXACTLY the kind of situation that will start a real snarl-fest at our house. And yes, it IS unnerving! But it doesn't usually last long.
We've had a few pretty decent tussles between the two B's at our house.

Glad all is well now.

[tanza]

@Duke:

Thanks Tanza. Duke is a noisy boy. If this wasn't a real attack, I'd hate to find out what that would be like. Just awful . . .

When they are making NO noise and fighting… then it is for real.... It may have been a "sort" of real attack... but honestly, his heart was not it it.. it is the noise that drives us all to the wall....

[jys1011]

If he didn't actually BITE Daisy then I would agree with the ladies here…it sounds to me more like a nasty argument over the food.

Same thing happens at my house...sounds scary but I know it's just noise since they can't really bark all they can do is growl & snarl at each other :eek: but I also know what triggers it and WHO triggers it (TOPAZ) so I try to minimize opportunities for the "arguing"

Don't worry...sounds like Duke & Daisy will be just fine

[tanza]

@jys1011:

If he didn't actually BITE Daisy then I would agree with the ladies here…it sounds to me more like a nasty argument over the food.

Same thing happens at my house...sounds scary but I know it's just noise since they can't really bark all they can do is growl & snarl at each other :eek: but I also know what triggers it and WHO triggers it (TOPAZ) so I try to minimize opportunities for the "arguing"

Don't worry...sounds like Duke & Daisy will be just fine

Bites can happen even with a "not" real fight…

[Quercus]

I am sorry you had to deal with that Jill…what a pain! The way I tell a 'real' fight from a 'not so real' fight, is how the dogs act afterward. If the dogs are fine afterward, nobody seems stressed, or tense, then it was a minor argument. If they are tense, or one dog is fearful, then it was probably a real fight that had more meaning than just 'hey that is mine'.

Sounds like Duke just lost his mind being excited over the food, and displaced his angst on Daisy. As you already figured Jill, the best way to deal with it, is just not let them hover while you get the food ready. Anticipation can really build a lot of tension in a hungry dog. You might not get the same reaction over a dropped bit of food, because there isn't a lot of build up. Also, Daisy has most likely learned...if it hits the floor, it is Duke's...and that is how they learn.

[Nexa]

Good to hear they're both ok. Our two get along great most of the time, we only had one knock down drag out fight. The second day we had Leo, I left for the first time and Leo ran to the window concerned and started whining. Nexa saw he was venerable and just let him have it. She pinned him down and wouldn’t let up. I’m sure she was letting him know his place in the pack. My wife separated them and we really haven’t had to separate them since then. Leo outweighs Nexa by 6-7 pounds, but she is definitely queen B.

[Basenji_Boy]

Sadly, I've seen fights….....you don't want to see that trust me.

Jill, Max and Cleo are life Mates and normally Max will let Cleo push him around without fighting back. It amazes me he takes from her what he does.
Every now and then he's had enough and will snap at her. It sounds very much like what you are describing with your B's. I've had Max put a little bite mark on Cleo, but that's about it. A lot of yacking, not as much fighting.

A bona fide fight is far worse and yes not as much Senji talk.....just fighting.

[sharronhurlbut]

We have a routine in my house.
Each dog had to sit and each dogs dish is put in the same place every time.
Cody is on the left, Shasta's is in the right.
If the dogs are in the wrong place, they will self correct…
They know they have to be where they belong before the food is put down.
Maybe that will be something to try.
Oh, they are usually fed a few feet away, so its pretty close.

[Duke]

@Quercus:

I am sorry you had to deal with that Jill…what a pain! The way I tell a 'real' fight from a 'not so real' fight, is how the dogs act afterward. If the dogs are fine afterward, nobody seems stressed, or tense, then it was a minor argument. If they are tense, or one dog is fearful, then it was probably a real fight that had more meaning than just 'hey that is mine'.

Sounds like Duke just lost his mind being excited over the food, and displaced his angst on Daisy. As you already figured Jill, the best way to deal with it, is just not let them hover while you get the food ready. Anticipation can really build a lot of tension in a hungry dog. You might not get the same reaction over a dropped bit of food, because there isn't a lot of build up. Also, Daisy has most likely learned...if it hits the floor, it is Duke's...and that is how they learn.

I think you hit the nail on the head again, Andrea. Afterward, Duke went right in his crate. Daisy was circling about making her sounds. She wanted Duke out of there (I think). Duke immediatly wanted my approval of him when he got out. He seemed sorry - Daisy gave him a lip lick and off they went outside together. I didn't see any behavior difference. So like Max & Cleo - they're life mates and I'll have to watch Duke's temper best I can. Yes - he lost him mind. The hard part is learning to know when the potential of an eruption exists - it was so quick. Daisy and I both got something out of it.

Thanks to all for your wisdom and advice here. We don't need anyone going to the vets for injuries during the holidays. The $$ would be better put to use on chewies wrapped up under the tree.

[Barklessdog]

The scariest thing was when my injured dog screamed in pain and our other dog immediately viciously attacks trying to kill him, it appeared. It scared the heck out of my wife & myself!

I saw the same thing happen in a nature show where the pack rips apart an injured member.

I was at least able to pick her up off of him (then he bites me!)

Our Female does this, and once again shows she is a very primitive, instinct driven dog. The same goes for killing small animals. It's instantaneous, no playing involved, all business- It certainly brings up her African lineage in the back of my mind. She turns into a wild animal at the flick of a switch.

Our tri seems to be getting better everyday, but we are still trying to keep his activity down (no walks or jumping up & off things), still on meds

[tanza]

Glad that he is doing better… mine are the complete opposite... they "care" for the wounded and sick.. totally... Since Maggii has been in renal failure they all treat her with the up most respect and very kindly... when she just had the major dental last week, when she came home they all huddled around her in "protective" mode...

[Basenji_Boy]

@Barklessdog:

The scariest thing was when my injured dog screamed in pain and our other dog immediately viciously attacks trying to kill him, it appeared. It scared the heck out of my wife & myself!

I saw the same thing happen in a nature show where the pack rips apart an injured member.

I was at least able to pick her up off of him (then he bites me!)

Our Female does this, and once again shows she is a very primitive, instinct driven dog. The same goes for killing small animals. It's instantaneous, no playing involved, all business- It certainly brings up her African lineage in the back of my mind. She turns into a wild animal at the flick of a switch.

Our tri seems to be getting better everyday, but we are still trying to keep his activity down (no walks or jumping up & off things), still on meds

Yes, bad fights will expose you to the ugly side of a Basenji. I've seen that, let's attack the bleeding one…..it is very very scary.

[tanza]

Again, I have seen that too, all jump on the bleeding one when there is a bad fight… but unlike Barklessdog, I have never had one jump a sick or injured one... like her bitch is doing to the Tri dog....

[Barklessdog]

She is the most gentle loving dog. She never bites anyone. She's as sweet as she can be, then wham, the instinct switch gets flipped and all that goes out the window, then the sweet switch goes back on just as fast???

It comes from genetic programming as this is not a learned behavior. The Tri does not have a clue on these instincts (except biting people). It's just so bizarre how they are so different, yet have their primitive sides, different, but just as bad.

I guess you have to remember they are still animals and very efficient predators and as much as we would like them to have human values, they can't.

99% of the time she's a huge love bug- it's just so shocking when they flip that switch.

[Basenji_Boy]

@tanza:

Again, I have seen that too, all jump on the bleeding one when there is a bad fight… but unlike Barklessdog, I have never had one jump a sick or injured one... like her bitch is doing to the Tri dog....

Me neither, just the injured/bleeding one during/after a fight.

[Basenji_Boy]

@Barklessdog:

That's part of fact that on one side she is the most gentle loving dog. She never bites anyone. She's as sweet as she can be, then wham, the instinct switch gets flipped and all that goes out the window, then the sweet switch goes back on just as fast???

I guess you have to remember they are still animals and very efficient predators and as much as we would like them to have human values, they can't.

99% of the time she's a huge love bug- it's just so shocking when they flip that switch.

I tell people all the time you have to remember, they are dogs. They act so humanlike at times we tend to not treat them like dogs and more like our kids.

[tanza]

I don't give mine human values.. just stating that my Basenjis do not attack the injured/sick…