Saving money sometimes isn't the best route… a full thyroid panel gives massively more information. But a low dose won't hurt, and as Pat said, if it doesn't help, you wean off easily and done.
Potty and Biting
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He is now close to 11 weeks.
I don't really do what he wants. But the pulling gets out of hand sometimes, to the point where his collar almost comes off (hurting himself too in the process, I don't want that to happen). And this happens altough he knows he gets something special outside. I usually take him in my arms and move around a bit, try to relax him, before going back inside.
When he gets annoyed because of the treat, I wait until he settles and try again. If he starts biting, I stop altogether. I try to combine things and it's usually no longer than 5 mins, give or take. I basically combine all the basic stuff (sit, lay, crate kibble hunt and some other things) with toy play, to break the repetitivness.
And by physical play, I mean basically playing with toys. Tug of war (I add Leave it everytime), fetch (kind of, he brings them back most of the time until he gets bored :)) ), passing toys around with my girlfriend so he gets a good run.
But yea, the most problematic thing is his frustration when taken to potty. As I said, I feel like he got a bit more distant since this started happening (2-3 daysa ago?), since he seems to get frustrated faster and it escalates faster too.
Question, would holding him close to my chest when he is over stimulated, to relax, a bad thing? Could he see it as a alpha roll? He seems to be fine, although he whines at first, but the second I let him go he's back at it.
PS: One thing I noticed earlier. We were chilling on the couch and he was chewing on a toy, when suddenly he came to me and started to bite my tshirt/pull/growl a bit. I figured I'd give potty a try and when straight to his spot and he pooped. Now I don't know if this was a coincidence, but I hope not, because I was excited. He doesn't say a thing when he needs to go, even if in crate. I just have to wake up before him or see him sniff/run around.
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@lustopher - Have you spoken to his breeder about this? That should be your first contact. Do you know how old he was when he was take from Mom and his littermates? Honestly this is the reason that I do not place puppies until they are 10 to 12wks... they stay with their littermates and other adults in the house. They learn "manners" from them... it helps when they go to their new homes... The only time I will send them home earlier (usually 9wks) is if they have another dog in the home or previous Basenji owners...
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@Lustopher when he pulls don’t move wait till he settles down before you set off again. Pull to him means he gets what he wants; you don’t want that.
I’m surprised you are having such issues with a 11 week old pup already.
Don’t lift him up when he’s having his tantrums. He most probably does not like being picked up frequently. He needs to learn to calm down by himself pop him in the crate with the gate open; after training and playtime teach him how to switch off. Remember he is 11 weeks old, he is also Teething. You don’t want to be lifting up a 11kg Basenji whilst he’s having a tantrum when he’s older so I wouldn’t recommend picking him up now to relax him; you don’t want that to be a habit. Currently he’s seeing you picking him up as a reward.
Pups tend to want to go toilet straight after waking up, after a meal and after playtime.
I’m trying to narrow it down, and it could simply be that your pup needs help with knowing how to switch off after play time and training.
Basenjis are independent, he wants to do things for himself im sensing.
@Zande what are your thoughts?
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@tanza We got him at 8 weeks. It is what it is now, trying to learn by trial and error.
@Micah I give him alone time after each play to be honest, he usually chills on the sofa, chewing on something (I don't mind him sitting there, as long as he stays calm). It would be great if he'd stay in the crate with the door opened... . Once in a moon time he does so, but not for long. He sleeps in there with no issues, goes in by himself when he sees food. I now put him in there if he goes overboard when overstimulated and he cools down for a few minutes with little to no whinning, sometimes falls asleep, but only if the door is closed.
But now that you put it this way, it makes sense. I'm probably trying to comfort him too much. I'll pay more attention to these little things.
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Your pup needs to learn that biting is not acceptable. Do not allow him to indulge in this, and be cautious because rough physical play encourages it. If you feel teeth, playtime stops. When you take him outside to do his business, pulling should never, ever, result in returning to the house. A slack leash gets him back inside, pulling never does. If you are concerned about the collar get a martingale collar so he can't slip out of it. A wide throat is best.
Training. Put your treats somewhere, don't hold them in your hand. You might try clicker training or use a marker word. Use successive approximations, let him figure out what you want. It's a mental exercise and is good for him. Click or use a marker word when you get a correct response. Then go get the treat for him. Once he is consistently doing the behaviour you want, name it (this will be your command word for the behaviour). Once he is doing the behaviour on cue, no need to treat every time, switch to intermittent rewards. Put the clicker away until you want to train another behaviour.
Just throwing something for him to bring back will probably result in him only retrieving when he is in the mood, and he will likely get bored easily. IMO, the best way to teach a retrieve is to teach "pick it up". (with clicker training you would click for proximity to the object, successive approximations until he is actually touching and then grasping the item. At some point he will pick it up.) Once the pup has that figured out you can move on to requesting him to retrieve specific articles by name. Engage your pup mentally, not just physically, and teach him manners! Bad behaviour should never be rewarded. Holding or restraining him is a good idea when he is over stimulated, just be sure to never release him when he is struggling, wait until he is quiet.
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@Lustopher teach bed means bed.
If you are working on a command for him to go to his crate give him the command once he is in there don’t reward him straight away but reward him maybe after 5 seconds. “Yes” or “free” I use for my boy to so he knows to get a treat, those are words I used to release my boy from what I asked him to do. Teach you pup a release command; you can do it when he is sitting, in the crate or whatever. Wait for him to do the command after a few seconds say “yes” and free when you want your pup to be released; you will be able to increase the duration to the point where he won’t leave the crate till he hears your release command.
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Been working on that. He doesn't get out unless he sits and waits for my go. I don't keep him wait for too long, just enough to have the door fully opened (if he gets up, I stop him and shut it back). Baby steps steps I suppose, but he seems to get it.
Any tips for heel walking? He just wouldn't move or gets distracted by little things. Basically he wants to do whatever he likes after a minute or two of trying. I guess working on the leash more and have him understand pressure would be a start.
Should I work through his frustrations or just release him after he calms down a bit and let him be? He specially gets annoyed fast when doing things like Impulse control with food.
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He's pretty young. I like to end any training session on a good note, so if you are getting the right response, reward and quit that session, and if possible do something he enjoys. The worst mistake IMO is keeping on drilling a behaviour long after the dog is sick of the whole thing. Don't put yourself in that box, but when you get a good response reward it, quit, and go back at it another time, maybe later in the day. Short sessions are usually more productive, and often an animal (or a human!) will do better the following day after they have "slept on it". If you find yourself losing patience ask for something easy and finish immediately. You do not want to leave your pup with a bad experience to mull over.
Teach your pup to go into the crate on command. And not because you threw a treat in there, but because you asked him to do it. This one is easy. I taught it to a mature dog with clicker training in 15 minutes flat. (Method: small room with crate in it, click for proximity to crate, then closer proximity, then front feet in, all the dog in, etc. Once he goes in promptly after resetting.....the click ends the behaviour, then you treat and restart.....name it so it is on cue.) Once he had it down I generalized it so he would "kennel" from anywhere in the house with the crate anywhere in the house. It's important to generalize commands. If your dog doesn't obey when you ask him for something in a different place from where you taught it, this will be the reason why. Too many animals are considered stubborn when they just haven't learned to generalize a command.
Heeling on leash, again don't ask for too much at one time. Target training can be helpful here, but old school you would just correct with the leash when he is out of position. You want a loose leash, you don't want to have to hold him in position. Again, short duration then release to full leash length, and after a few minutes ask again. If you are getting a decent response release him before he is sick of it. Build duration gradually. My dogs were always taught to heel when crossing roads....
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We had more luck with toilet training (at around the same age) when I started taking mine out for a walk on a lead along our road every hour, rather than standing outside in the garden waiting for her to go while she got stressed. She was happier to go outside this way as it was more interesting and the whole process often took less than a minute as she would wee when distracted and wee within a few metres and we would then go straight back inside. Going every hour (unless asleep) gave her fewer opportunities to go inside and over time going inside felt alien, so she started asking to go out into he garden. As she got older I increased it to every 1.5 hours, 2, 3 etc and at around 9 months (when she was reliably not weeing inside and asking to go out) I noticed she was able to hold it for 10 or so hours.
Mine also pulls when she doesn't want to go a certain way on a walk and I just stand there and face the way we are going until she decides to comply.
Mine doesn't like getting cleaned either, so we chose to pick our battles (and that wasn't one of them, whereas rolling in animal poo would be). We have a hard floor downstairs, so when we come in from a wet walk she is not allowed in the lounge that has a sofa or upstairs until she has cleaned and dried herself. She stays in the kitchen where there is only the crate to sit in. Could you do something like this and maybe put an old towel down at the entrance to the house that he would naturally walk on to absorb any excess mud?
Personally we chose not to impose physical procedures like putting on a harness, cleaning etc as she was becoming increasingly unhappy about it and we have children so didn't want to take the risk. She is not in charge in the house and we have developed verbal ways of getting her to do what is needed, such as jumping into the crate in the car rather than being lifted and on the occasions where there is no choice (like being lifted onto the vet table and restrained for examination) it has actually been ok, I think because she now trusts us.
At the weekend mine started having a reaction to something from running through a bush and I knew she wouldn't be happy to be wiped down, so we took her into the garden and turned the hosepipe on. She wasn't very happy about that either but it did the trick and there was no aggression. Another time one of the children spilt honey on her head so I tied a wet cloth to the end of a stick and wiped her with it from a distance - she ended up enjoying it!
She will be 2 years old at the end of May and we have noticed she is a lot easier to manage generally in the past couple of months, so it does get easier eventually! As others have said, he is very young and it does take time for things to start working. I spent ages asking mine to leave a room by saying "out" and either throwing a piece of food or using my body (not hands) or a piece of furniture to shepherd her out by walking towards her and all of a sudden with maturity that isn't needed and she responds to "out" on it's own.
One option could be to try a more hands off approach for a week or so and develop some other strategies and then review what you are doing and see if it helps.
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@JKent I'm planning on taking him out every hour for walks too, but he is due to his 4th vaccine next week. Until then, is just potty breaks to his "spot" nearby, on grass, although it's also kinda risky as there've been other dogs around. But I will have to try on a harness with a front clip, because he just doesn't give up and chokes on the collar. When doing short training sessions inside, he is fine, but outside he goes crazy after potty.
Accidents inside have become less frequent and obviously my fault for not paying attention. Need to make a habbit of taking him out during play time, because it's hard to tell when "after playtime" is with him :D. It's a learning process for me, too.
As for the cleanup, I've got a paw cleaner last night and although he doesn't 100% enjoy it, it's better than hand washing his paws. It's a two men job for now, but I hope he will sit still when he gets bigger.
PS: One more question. He makes a lot of weird noises throught the sleeping. Snoring, wheezing, sometimes it sounds like he can't breath. This has been since day 1. I'm planning on having him checked when going for the next vaccine, but I was wondering if it's normal?
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@lustopher said in Potty and Biting:
try on a harness with a front clip, because he just doesn't give up and chokes on the collar.
Don't expect the harness to contain him... mine got out of hers in less than 10 minutes.
There is a chance that your pup isn't used to the collar, or possibly the weight of the leash. See what he does if you clip the leash to the collar and let him drag it around the house. It will allow him to get comfortable with the weight of it and maybe help him fell less "trapped" by it. A lighter leash might be beneficial, or a smaller leash clip.As for the sleeping noises: I wouldn't worry too much. My dog snores, tries to bark, and seems like she couldn't be getting enough air (depending on how far she sticks her nose into the covers), but she has air flow (that's the important part).
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@Lustopher work through the frustration, start with simple work at the start which he enjoys then move him onto whatever you are teaching him. He needs to understand getting frustrated isn’t solving anything.
Good keep working at it impulse control don’t give in when he’s frustrated. You want to end on a positive note not him getting frustrated and walking off.
Yes my boy heels on lead and off lead in the park and to the park.
I have videos of heel work with my boy but I’m not sure if it’s possible to sharing on here.
I use his daily allowance for food for training and his favourite toy when it comes to off lead heel work and lead heel. You do not want to make this session long at all. Heel work is very boring to them. @eeeefarm has gone through heel work nicely I would follow that advice as it’s very similar to what with my boy.
I wouldn’t waste money on a harness at all. I personally use a slip lead; when he is a little older you can use a gentle leader. Collar placement is important you don’t want the collar down at the chest m. Once you control the head you control the mind of the dog
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@elbrant The sleeping noises come and go, for e.g he is now sleeping like a baby and I can't hear a thing. I will still ask the vet to take a look, but I'm more relaxed now, thanks :D.
As for the harness, I expect that to happen, but gotta try it. I had a flat nylon leash as a house line, he destroyed it in 3 days. I got a round one this time and is rather light, doesn't seem bothered by the weight. I will try a smaller clip too, as this one does indeed seem a little too big for him.
@Micah I did just that today and it was more productive. Since he has all my attention 75% of the day, I just go from playing to training and repeat when I see him lose interest. I pushed him a little today with the crate and altough he 'umfed' once or twice, he still did it.
I applied the advice from @eeeefarm and it was indeed better. Went from 2-3 steps to a full 'around the room walk'. Not perfect by any means, but did not pull. I'll keep at it, just have to lower my expectations. He is smart, but realllllyy stubborn. The "umfs" make me laugh.
Thank you!
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I would not worry about strange noises when he is sleeping. Totally normal, IMO. They also dream and sometimes vocalize in their sleep.
I'm not a fan of harnesses. They do not give you the control you need and as elbrant mentioned, it isn't unusual for a dog to slip out of them. A collar should be well fitting and adjusted tight enough that he can't slip it. If you are consistent about not giving in to pulling he will learn to stop doing it. Be careful that you are not the one doing the pulling. When he tightens the leash, stand still. As soon as it loosens, move on. This is one of those things that go slowly at first but he will get the message that pulling does not get him what he wants, unless you confuse him by being inconsistent.
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@lustopher - A walk every hour is a bit much, in my opinion. If it is to go potty, take him out and then reward when he goes. Walks should be fun time... not just to potty... especially at his age. And honestly, I recommend that people take their pup out for short walks after the 2nd shot. Just be mindful of them sniffing other "poop" as that can shed viruses. He is a bit young at 11wks to be expected to react quickly and learn... and sounds to me like he was not really socialized as a baby by the breeder, so you need to take the role with the absents of littermates and adults Basenjis/dogs in his world. Also make sure to have the vet check for a UTI, not uncommon for pups to get this, especially if it seems he is peeing often and not much or loses bladder control when sleeping. As far as sleeping noise, very normal.
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@tanza I got a urine test container to have him checked next visit. But I believe he is just not used to it, because at night he can go for 4-4.5 hours without potty already. I take full responsability for not paying attenion for inside accidents. Today we had someone over and at some point he became annoying so I put him in his crate to relax and I ignored his whinning because I thought he was just mad, but he peed on his bed... . I'd say that was out of frustration, because I took him out like 30 mins earlier and not much activity afterwards. And when he wakes up, he waits.
I've introduced him to other people already and I take him out for short walks around the block, not just potty. My parents have a 3yo female mixed bread, should I go for it or wait until my B is fully vaccinated? (she obviously is, and taken for vet checks every few months)
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@lustopher - Go for it as long as your parents pup is vaccinated... they will be fine... I have found over 30+ years in the breed that they build immunities by interacting with others... years and years ago I didn't do that and had many issues... so when I started introducing to vaccinated dogs.. they build immunities... same with human children... I used to take my pups to lure trials and shows... I was careful on who/what they get close to... but I had MUCH healthy pups for that point on... not everyone will agree, but it certainly worked for me and all the people that I placed pups with.
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@micah said in Potty and Biting:
Yes my boy heels on lead and off lead in the park and to the park.
I have videos of heel work with my boy but I’m not sure if it’s possible to sharing on here.I have seen those videos and it is wonderful to see a Basenji heeling without a lead. @micah is a superb trainer and his Kenji is an inspiration to other Bs !
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Mine has been a sweet boy since day one but I train him the same way I "trained" my kids which I think helps, with a lot of "easy" calm reminders/vibe. Every now and then mine gets an attitude and wants to lash out and I will either put him in his play pen for a quick time out or try and hold him with lots of shhhh easy... Calm words. The timeout in the pen isn't punishmen (we don't use it when he does something bad) and it's different than his crate, but when he's in there he knows he can't go anywhere and it helps him calm down. Mine still has a lot of puppy bitting urges, every day, and we redirect him to a toy or we say no, as he does it and good boy as we are able to pet him without him bitting. Maybe trying to be very calm and trying to ease him down may help?
As far as potty training, we trained our early on to ring a bell when he has to go out. We started it by taking him outside constantly and ringing the bell while we said "outside?" and after a while he learned to where he now runs to the door and rings it hard to go outside. However, on rainy days, he wants nothing to do with outside and has the most accidents. When he has one, we usually say sharply "outside!" and pick him up, even midstream, and take him right outside. Maybe a system for potty training like this could intrigue?
He dislikes having his feet washed too so we limit that to only when he has really dirty paws or steps in his own poo which unfortunately he does often, otherwise we just do a quick wipe. If your dog dislikes paws washed like you stated, I would avoid that as much as possible because it gives them a reason to not want to go outside.
As far has harness/leash, we use all of them depending on the situation. I primarily walk him on a lead rope leash, but when my kids take him out on potty breaks we use a basic leash clipped to his collar (with me, a since I'm his person, a leash isn't needed but with anyone else it's a must cause the other side of the fence is too much of a curiosity), and on hikes we use a harness. We switch it up so much the manner in which he goes out makes no difference for him. Personally I'm not a fan of seeing their neck chocked when he pulls another way, so we leave the lead leash to training walks where I think it has more of an affect where the harness is more playtime outdoors. Maybe using a lightweight leash on every potty break everytime and have one designed spot?
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@Jeimygirl thank you for your input
Potty is starting to be OK, except the fact that he doesn't "say" anything yet when he has to go. I have to figure it out on my own and considering that he had peed on the couch a few times, although no play was involved and had peed outside previous to that, I prefer to take him out pretty often to give him a chance to go. Could this be marking?
But yes, he is not always fond of it, specially at night. He doesn't come out of the crate because he knows it's potty time, he just goes dead weight on the bed and whines when I pick him up. Perhaps the paw cleaning is part of it too, but unfortunately there is not much we can do due to the bad weather (been snowing/melting every other day).
He seems to dislike some positions when held for the Silicone Paw Cleaner, but he doesn't go crazy otherwise.He's had the 4th vaccine today so I will start to take him for longer walks in quiter places, not just around the block. Hopefully that way he'll slowly learn to walk acceptably.
LE: Hey, one more question. My boy is 3 months old now, sits at 5-5.3 kg. According to comments on the forums and some online calculators, he's on the right track. I've been giving him ~150grams of semi-moist Royal Canin kibbles for medium puppies (recommended by the breeder), but now I wanted to switch to something 'healthier' and opted for Acana Junior, which he apparently enjoys. Calorie count seems to be about the same, but according to the label I should be giving him 120 grams (after the slow switch, also going for 3 meals starting next week) which to me doesn't seem like enough? He seems to be frustrated and I'd guess it's because he is hungry. I also use this allowance to keep him quiet when needed and do some basic training + some high value treats for good behaviour (usually for outside activities and distractions).
Should I stick to this and see how his weight progresses?
