Breeding Plans

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  • K

    Fingers crossed Arlene! The waiting is such torture…

    Kelli Harmon

    Kiroja Basenjis

    Southgate, MI USA

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  • nomrbddgsN

    Hmmm, here it is morning of day 67 and first day of last breeding. Meaning, I bred her three times, two days apart each. This would make this 63 days from the last breeding. Since sperm is viable for up to three days after the breeding, the very last day should be Dec 31. All that happened yesterday was that she was upset she couldn't be with the other dogs, so she peed on the floor. I slept last night with feet in my face and groaning-not from DH, just from her! I hope she has them soon, only so much stinky butt and smelly feet I can stand!! (I'd rather smell puppy poo)

    Arlene, the Basenji Brats with the Boxenji![](images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin")

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  • KebasmomK

    I have to agree with Nemo. I would not want to go through this kind of thing by myself the first couple of times. I'd want to volunteer to help an experienced breeder do this and then have some experienced hands with me the first time I went through it.
    Arlene, I hope you get some positive action today!! I look forward to hearing about it.

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  • nomrbddgsN

    I do have an experienced breeder standing by to help with whelping. Although I have bred terriers, this is my first Basenji breeding. I don't ever recall this much waiting with the terrier!

    Arlene, the Basenji Brats with the Boxenji![](images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin")

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  • lvossL

    @nomrbddgs:

    Since sperm is viable for up to three days after the breeding, the very last day should be Dec 31.

    I hope that she doesn't make you wait that long, but fresh semen is viable longer than 3 days. Most of the reading I have done says around 7 days. Fresh chilled 2-3 days and the technology is improving. Frozen is only 12 hours.

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  • lvossL

    As for not waiting as long for terriers, their season aren't usually as long as a basenjis so you are not usually looking at such a long window. Rally almost always ovulated on day 10 of her heat, except the year of Sophie's litter. I drove down to Arizona when her progesterone started to look like it was rising but she backed off and waited a whole 'nother 10 days. Avongara Cole was very particular about when he would breed her so was about as good as a progesterone test in predicting when they pups were born. Nicky has also been as accurate as a progesterone test in letting us know when ovulation was. My mom's boy Levi would breed any girl in season ovulating or not.

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  • nomrbddgsN

    @lvoss:

    I hope that she doesn't make you wait that long, but fresh semen is viable longer than 3 days. Most of the reading I have done says around 7 days. Fresh chilled 2-3 days and the technology is improving. Frozen is only 12 hours.

    Crap! Now the window is even longer-now to Jan 4? I'll be on pins and needles-mostly needles by then!!

    Arlene, the Basenji Brats with the Boxenji![](images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin")

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  • lvossL

    Well, probably it is Jan 1, since the 63 days counts from ovulation which usually occurs about 3 days prior to fertilization.

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  • nomrbddgsN

    Kero is very good at breeding also. He seems to know the time to breed. I am now at day 68 and nothing again. This is like pulling fingernails now! Although I seemed to be resigned she will go into labour at the most inappropriate time!

    Arlene, the Basenji Brats with the Boxenji![](images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin")

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  • lvossL

    If she goes much longer you may want to do an x-ray just to be sure it isn't a very small litter. Sometimes 1-2 puppy litters can require a c-section because the puppies aren't crowded and can either get too big for a natural birth or just wait so long that their placentas start deteriorating.

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  • nomrbddgsN

    That was what I was worried about, but I did hear 3 distinct heartbeats yesterday. Her temp has now dropped to 96 and she's starting to act a little off. Not off enough to not eat, but just early stages. Should be within 24 hrs. I'll keep you updated.

    Arlene, the Basenji Brats with the Boxenji![](images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin")

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  • snorky998S

    OMG!! I've been here just reading from the begining and I have to tell you I'm sooo excited for you!! I'm sure this will be the first thread I read when I get up in the morning, with mutiple checks in between before it's the last thing I check online before going to bed.

    Good luck, prayers, and happy thoughts being sent your way.

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  • mauigirlM

    @snorky998:

    OMG!! I'm sure this will be the first thread I read when I get up in the morning, with mutiple checks in between before it's the last thing I check online before going to bed.

    Me too! I don't know how many times a day I think about the litters that have their own threads here. Alot.
    Fingers crossed that the pups' humans will becomes active members so we continue to hear about the little darlings while they grow.

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  • dmcartyD

    I have found that the timing is totally dependent on what I "have" to do at work on a specific day. THe more critical that I have to be there - the more likely that would be the 'day'. Once I had to write a speech in the morning that my boss was going to give that PM and I just knew that I would have puppies (this was long before email and telecommunting). So I called the vet and asked - "If I bring in one dog to board for the day and she has puppies are you going to charge me for all of them?" They said no unless they had to assist. So I did have one litter born all by themselves at the vets office - the vet staff was amazed - and I got the speech done.

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  • bellabasenjiB

    Go figure…. that's a Basenji for ya'. Always pulling a "fast one". Predictable is NOT a Basenji trait for sure!!! Guess that goes the same when it comes to laboring... LOL;) I am looking forward to seeing these cuties, too!

    _**Lisa Lynn ![](images/smilies/smile.png "Smile")

    BRAT Basenji Rescue, &

    Mid-Atlantic Basenji Club**_

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  • nomrbddgsN

    @bellabasenji:

    Go figure…. that's a Basenji for ya'. Always pulling a "fast one". Predictable is NOT a Basenji trait for sure!!! Guess that goes the same when it comes to laboring... LOL;) I am looking forward to seeing these cuties, too!

    Ha! So true! I raced home from work, because they told me she was starting to nest and whining, so what does she do when I come home? GO TO SLEEP, ALL NIGHT! Nothing yet, I'm sorry to say. I hope to have something soon. Lisa if she doesn't go by Friday, I will take her in. Unless the puppies stop moving before then, or I don't hear heartbeats. Although last night at least three were rolling around separately. It's funny to see heads and feet stuck out an inch past the girls' ribs. Oh, the joys! I will keep you updated!

    Arlene, the Basenji Brats with the Boxenji![](images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin")

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  • YodelDogsY

    Arlene,
    Were the dates of her breedings Oct 22, 24, and 26?

    Robyn Dubbert

    Sherwood Basenjis

    One thing that I have learned in life is to accept that things are not all black or all white. Life is shades of gray and just because someone sees a different shade of gray than you do, it doesn't mean their shade is right or wrong, its just different. ~ Robyn Dubbert

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  • nomrbddgsN

    I believe so Robyn. She had them today-2 red boys, 1 red girl, and 1 tri girl. Here are pics'

    http://s540.photobucket.com/albums/gg329/shadow_brat/

    Sorry, didn't have time to post them as I have to go to work, but I will later. And I will give more detailed description as well.

    Arlene

    Arlene, the Basenji Brats with the Boxenji![](images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin")

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  • tanzaT

    congrats to Sugar and Arlene (and Robyn as co-breeder), Looks like by the birth times she had a pretty easy time of it…. all done in a little more then a hour!!!!

    Pat Fragassi

    Tanza Basenjis

    www.tanzabasenjis.net

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  • lvossL

    Congrats! I love 4 puppy litters.

    Here are the individual pics of the pups while Arlene is working.

    Tri Girl

    Red Girl

    Red Boy 1

    Red Boy 2

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    @bigv said in When to consider breeding?: So Taylor.rene . A little bit about my findings over the last 30 years is that every person who breeds dogs calls them self a responsible breeder? "" Yes, and fortunately for about 20 year now, anyone who really wants to verify if the breeder is actually believable can do so. Some breeders have no problem with incest for the sake of a ribbon as (dogs aren't people )..It is all about titles not the betterment of the breed. Being involved with race horses..<< Gosh, where to begin. " Incest" is a morality terminology, applied as everything from just not parent/child and aunt or uncles/nieces and nephews....all the way to 2nd or even 3rd cousins. It has little to do with genetics, hence adopted children count, and everything to do with moral views. That said, the human race is far from universally avoiding what would be called close line breeding or even incest. Isolated communities ...either physically by geographic terrain or socially by groups such Ashkenazi Jews and Romani, have limited gene pools. Ashkenazi Jews, btw, joke we are all no further than 5th cousins, but it is nearly true. Dogs and animals have no such manmade morals. A common propensity for many mammals to not to mate with closely related animals has nothing to do with incest. In limited populations they will mate, and the problems that arise if it occurs too often are due to decreased gene, increased expression of harmful genes etc. In controlled breeding, line breeding, even close, can be used to find if there are harmful recessives, or bring out desired recessives. If you think it isn't done with livestock, including horses, you're mistaken. With knowledgeable breeders who keep up on genetics, it absolutely is for the betterment of the breed, not a ribbon... Yes I am not a fan of line breeding but it seems that every zoo in the world has a similar view as they are always swapping animals to improve the genes . ...<<<<< Again, absolutely nothing to do with incest. Zoo animals, even those of nonendangered species, have a serious issue with limited gene pools. The level of that limitation cannot be compared to most pet breeds. We aren't talking many thousands of individuals, or millions, but sometimes 100 or less. Stud books are kept, for example, on all the polar bears in zoos and the effort to keep the diversification as high as possible is serious. (I'll leave out my views on them being in zoos.) So sure, if dog breeders were faced with THAT level of limited gene pool, line breeding would probably be avoided as much as possible. However, that all ignores the fact that dogs in any breed are mostly related.. If you go back 10 or more generations, you find the same dogs heavily in most lines. Sometimes 2 dogs that aren't related 3 generations back may share more actual genes than a closely related dog who has a lot of breeding out of the line on one side. That's where knowledgeable breeders come in. Having studied dingos for the past 15 years I can say without dought a bitch won't mate with relative... They are similar to basenjis in many ways. ...<< That's nice that you've studied them. But researchers are making new discoveries based on actual observations and finding a lot of what they thought isn't true. With massive interbreeding with domestic dogs, the pure dingos are disappearing. I envy those of you able to see them. However researchers suspect they have ...>>During this a hitherto unknown form of the “pure” dingo was discovered (based on DNA and skull features): a white dog with orange spots on the fur. This variant was considered as a single mutation or the result of interbreeding with an isolated dingo population.<< So they don't rule it out. (I downloaded to read, over 100 pages but you might love it. I'll save for later! https://web.archive.org/details/http://www.invasiveanimals.com/downloads/Final-proceedings-with-cover.pdf ) And my boy does have a title that no other basenji has . He is the first and only basenji to be approved by the Victorian State Goverment to be authorised to hunt deer on private and public land within its borders. But to some this would make him unsuitable to breed with you figure?<<< First, while you have done an impressive job with you dogs, I am pretty sure that is a privilege given, not a "title," and I am 100% certain his being able to would have nothing to do with whether anyone deemed him not worthy of breeding to. With the right health checks, good conformation, etc, I would think a good plus...especially if the bitch owner wanted to possibly enhance hunting ability. It simply isn't enough.
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    We will have puppies in the house… but just not born here..gggg.... but thanks for the kind words....
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    Oh it begins….as the summer ends the breeding season starts.....good luck this year Pat... I hope everything goes nice and smooth...can't wait to hear what these two produce. :)