What to do when gates don't work.

[Kananga]

And for reference, this is the area I am blocking off:

It's probably closer to 90-100sqft.

[tanza]

LOL, floor to ceiling wall!… Seriously... you could have a gate built, that is what we did for two places in our home. One by the entry to the front door and the other at the bottom of the stairs to the dog room (which goes into the laundry room with doggy door outside.

I would suggest at least 4ft high

[JazzysMom]

Seriously, I suggest scat mats.

After stepping on ours one time, Keoki doesn't even attempt to get up the stairs. He stands near the mat and just whines up the stairs – and he is our "difficult" dog, the one that broke three gates trying to get to the cats up there! One could easily be used to block a door way.
And they do not hurt the dog in any way.

[Kananga]

@JazzysMom:

Seriously, I suggest scat mats.

After stepping on ours one time, Keoki doesn't even attempt to get up the stairs. He stands near the mat and just whines up the stairs – and he is our "difficult" dog, the one that broke three gates trying to get to the cats up there! One could easily be used to block a door way.
And they do not hurt the dog in any way.

Interesting….. I just googled this and it seems like a very intriguing concept.

Thanks for the tip. This should work perfectly if it is indeed effective.

[lvoss]

@JazzysMom:

And they do not hurt the dog in any way.

I will disagree with this statement. Scat Mats work by delivering a static shock as an aversive. I build up a lot static electricity and end up getting shocked by many things, I do think that getting zapped hurts.

[Kananga]

@lvoss:

I will disagree with this statement. Scat Mats work by delivering a static shock as an aversive. I build up a lot static electricity and end up getting shocked by many things, I do think that getting zapped hurts.

Considering a 9V battery powers it, I doubt it's anything remotely close to causing damage.

I'm going to give this a try.

[lvoss]

Though the shock delivered may not cause physical damage, it does cause pain and there can be mental consequences.

In my car, I use plastic Vari-Kennel crates, for whatever reason they began building a static charge and would zap my dogs when getting in or out. I did realize right away what was going but my boy's reaction very dramatic. He would cringe and act as if he was going to be hit when asked to get in the car. I now make sure that the crates are all well sprayed with static spray periodically. Though my boy was not physcially damaged, it most definitely had a negative impact on him.

It is important to be aware of how these devices work and watch closely for signs that it is effecting the mental health of the animal not just to worry about physical consequences.

[JazzysMom]

@lvoss:

I will disagree with this statement. Scat Mats work by delivering a static shock as an aversive. I build up a lot static electricity and end up getting shocked by many things, I do think that getting zapped hurts.

Well, let me put it this way – my kids and the little girl I babysit who is 6 yrs old, like to stand on it in their sock feet for fun; they giggle and say it has a tickle. And before I placed it on the floor, I touched it with my bare hand and it wasn't at all painful.

It's more a startle effect than a hurt.

[JazzysMom]

@lvoss:

Though the shock delivered may not cause physical damage, it does cause pain and there can be mental consequences.

In my car, I use plastic Vari-Kennel crates, for whatever reason they began building a static charge and would zap my dogs when getting in or out. I did realize right away what was going but my boy's reaction very dramatic. He would cringe and act as if he was going to be hit when asked to get in the car. I now make sure that the crates are all well sprayed with static spray periodically. Though my boy was not physcially damaged, it most definitely had a negative impact on him.

It is important to be aware of how these devices work and watch closely for signs that it is effecting the mental health of the animal not just to worry about physical consequences.

But you were trying to make him jump into the thing that was uncomfortable to him. I mean, if I were trying to make Keoki stand on the mat, I'm sure it would do some psychological damage.
But, having been startled by it the one time, he simply avoids the mat; we encourage him to avoid that area, so there's no mental health issue, IMO.

[Kananga]

Well I'm going to wait it out a bit longer. He didn't do too bad today. I left him a fleece blanket that he likes to shred. He never eats any of the pieces so there isn't much of a worry here. He also has a kong filled with treats along with a bone. Maybe this will help him adjust but he didn't seem very stressed out when I got home. If things get worse i'll look into the scat mat. But for now I want to give him a chance since he still hasn't gone the lengths of injuring himself.

[lvoss]

He avoids the mat because it causes him pain which is the same reason Nicky wanted to avoid exiting or entering his crate.

[JazzysMom]

@lvoss:

He avoids the mat because it causes him pain which is the same reason Nicky wanted to avoid exiting or entering his crate.

I own and use a mat, so I speak from personal experience with them. I touch the mat; my children touch the mat. It is not painful; it is indeed startling if you aren't expecting it. It is merely a funny "wiggly" feeling if you are.
He avoids the mat because it doesn't act like the floor is "supposed" to act; the floor is not supposed to wiggle. He is not afraid of it; he will walk right up to the edge and sniff it several times a day.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Kananga]

@JazzysMom:

I own and use a mat, so I speak from personal experience with them. I touch the mat; my children touch the mat. It is not painful; it is indeed startling if you aren't expecting it. It is merely a funny "wiggly" feeling if you are.
He avoids the mat because it doesn't act like the floor is "supposed" to act; the floor is not supposed to wiggle. He is not afraid of it; he will walk right up to the edge and sniff it several times a day.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Do you have any issues with him jumping over it? I noticed the largest one is only 20 x 42. I figure 20" is not wide enough to prevent that but I could be wrong.

[JazzysMom]

@Kananga:

Do you have any issues with him jumping over it? I noticed the largest one is only 20 x 42. I figure 20" is not wide enough to prevent that but I could be wrong.

No. That's something we wondered about too, but none of the dogs have even tried to jump over it even though it would be easy enough. They just go up to the edge and look up the stairs. I think because they aren't quite sure just what's happening there

[Kananga]

Fair enough. I'll have to see if anyone has these locally.

[JazzysMom]

Sorry it's so dark - again, in the poorly lit hallway with a cell phone.

Just wanted to give an idea of how Keoki acts with the mat. One of our cats was sitting just at the top of these stairs. These are the stairs the old gates used to block, you know, before he broke every gate I had trying to get at the cats :rolleyes:

[Kananga]

Heh, well I tried it out today. I came home during lunch and found out that he could get around it. I had a barrier behind the mat incase he tried to jump over. Well he knocked the barrier down, which covered the mat, allowing him to have free roam while I was gone.

To my surprise, nothing, and I mean nothing was out of place or damaged. So i decided to allow today to be a test day. I took him outside and brought him back in allowing him full roam. If he damages something, it'll be a learning experience. But I think that proved, so far, that he doesn't destroy things if he has plenty of room to roam around.

We'll see…..

[Kananga]

Once again, he proved me wrong.

I came home and he had a solid 5-6hrs of "destruction potential". Nothing was moved. No accidents, no damage, nothing. I was shocked.

So it's settled. He gets full roam while I am away.

[snorky998]

@JazzysMom:

I own and use a mat, so I speak from personal experience with them. I touch the mat; my children touch the mat. It is not painful; it is indeed startling if you aren't expecting it. It is merely a funny "wiggly" feeling if you are.
He avoids the mat because it doesn't act like the floor is "supposed" to act; the floor is not supposed to wiggle. He is not afraid of it; he will walk right up to the edge and sniff it several times a day.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

I agree. Aversion training without pain has been going on for years. Take a look at the problems/training treads from the past that suggest aversion tactics…water spray bottles, tea tree oil, even crates/wire kennels are aversion tactics.

When it comes to the crate/kennel issue, many here have stated how reactionary some dogs become, upset to the point of crazy...chewed up crates and teeth broken on wire kennels....that MUST be painful!!

Please understand, I'm not opposed to crate/kennel training, just using the example as an aversion training tactic that I have read here, on many occasions, that could be interpreted as painful to the pups.

Scat mats ARE painless. The startle effect (as we know with spray bottles) works wonders with many of our 4-legged kids

[Kananga]

@snorky998:

and teeth broken on wire kennels….that MUST be painful!!

I watched my pup try and chew through the metal at one point. That's what went through my head. He just honestly got freaked out beyond the point of logic.

I'm happy he does well out in the open now.