Peeing in crate during the night

[Flash]

My parter and I at last have our B bitch pup from a good breeder. We have called her Minke and she is a sweet natured, 11 weeks old, red and white cutie.

In preparation for her arrival we informed ourselves about how to train and care for her and she is responding very well - in fact after reading many of the interesting notes on this Forum we were pleasantly surprised by how responsive and well mannered she is!

We have trained her to sleep in her crate by supplying a heated pad and a favourite toy. However, much as we try during the night to take her outside to pee we still find that her bed is wet in the morning. We are concerned that leaving her in her own pee will give her the message that its OK to pee, or worse, in her crate. We've thought of:
a) extending the size of the crate so that we can provide her with an area to relieve herself - but this might also reinforce bad habits;
b) putting the crate in the laundry with the door open so that she can go out herself during the night through the cat door (but its our winter here in Australia and she might not feel inclined)

Do you have any suggestions?

[lvoss]

The first question, have you ruled out a medical cause such as UTI?

Second question, what is your evening routine with her?

[Flash]

Thanks for your inqury. Minke has no physical problems. she's just a pup (11 Weeks) and doesnt have full control of her bladder yet. our evening 'routine' comprises dinner for her after we eat (about 7pm), a run in the yard to do her business, followed by furious play for about an hour, then a nap on my lap (until about 9.30), a final pee and bed at about 10pm.

[tanza]

@Flash:

Thanks for your inqury. Minki has no physical problems. she's just a pup (11 Weeks) and doesnt have full control of her bladder yet. our evening 'routine' comprises diner for her after we eat (about 7pm), a run in the yard to do her business, followed by furious play for about an hour, then a nap on my lap (until about 9.30), a final pee and bed at about 10pm.[/QUOT
E]

What time to you get her up in the morning? Usually at 11 wks, they need to go out every 4 to 5 hours tops… And just because she is only 11wks, she can still have a UTI... very common in puppies

[ComicDom1]

Actually we took our Basenji outside every 2 to 3 hours when it was that young. While I know it might not be something you want to do, if you can get up and walk that pup 3 hours after you crate at 10pm you will probably solve your problem. As Tanza has said, at age 4 to 5 hours would be the amount of time they can control their bladder. If it was me, I would use 4 hours max as a guide line.

Jason

[snorky998]

Good suggestion Comic…but...although the 2-3/3-4 hour time line worked very well with one of mine, the other used it to her advantage. We had to stop the attention getting behavior that was NOT "I have to pee", but simply turned out to be 'I'm awake and insisting on attention in the middle of the night' behavior.

Flash, Minke (or is it Minki, or both?) may be too young to 'hold it' at this point in time as others have suggested, but don't give into the 'senji game playing either. They are the masters of manipulation. As stated in another post, they cry and may whine, then they give you "The Face". My 6 year old female still tries it occasionally.
I decide on an individual basis (re:dog/time/place) who I respond to and when I respond to them when they insist on mid-night time attention.

BTW, the advice for a UTI check is good advice. Eliminate health issues before moving on to behavior issues

[Bennih]

I also need some "pee in the crate advise"

We have an 18 week old Basenji (mix) and we are crate training her as well. When we first bought the crate, we also purchased a nice cushion that fit the crate perfectly. However, she immediately began chewing on the corner, so we took it away for now until she gets better about chewing and gets past the terrible teething stage. So, she just had the plastic floor to sleep on with her toys.

The first few days we had her she would wake up at 3:30am - we did it a few times and she did go, but then, she'd cry (only for about 10 minutes) when we put her back in her crate.

Our vet told us to stop getting up at 3:30am because if she was going to bed at 10pm, she should be able to hold it until 5am (when we usually hear her whine to get out). So, we stopped and occassionally she will wake that early, but usually just goes back to sleep.

We put towels in her crate one night to start to step her up to a more comfy crate, but she peed on them before we got home the next day. We removed the towels and back to the plastic floor and she's peed twice more.

We are giving her about 7 hours in the crate (always letting her do her business before we put her in it).

Is this normal - just getting used to a schedule since she's a pup? We are trying to do the right things, but don't want to create a situation or make the crate an unpleasant place for her.

Thanks.

[tanza]

@Bennih:

I also need some "pee in the crate advise"

We have an 18 week old Basenji (mix) and we are crate training her as well. When we first bought the crate, we also purchased a nice cushion that fit the crate perfectly. However, she immediately began chewing on the corner, so we took it away for now until she gets better about chewing and gets past the terrible teething stage. So, she just had the plastic floor to sleep on with her toys.

The first few days we had her she would wake up at 3:30am - we did it a few times and she did go, but then, she'd cry (only for about 10 minutes) when we put her back in her crate.

Our vet told us to stop getting up at 3:30am because if she was going to bed at 10pm, she should be able to hold it until 5am (when we usually hear her whine to get out). So, we stopped and occassionally she will wake that early, but usually just goes back to sleep.

We put towels in her crate one night to start to step her up to a more comfy crate, but she peed on them before we got home the next day. We removed the towels and back to the plastic floor and she's peed twice more.

We are giving her about 7 hours in the crate (always letting her do her business before we put her in it).

Is this normal - just getting used to a schedule since she's a pup? We are trying to do the right things, but don't want to create a situation or make the crate an unpleasant place for her.

Thanks.

IMO, 7 hourse in a crate at her age is way, way to long… I would not expect a puppy before at least 6 months (and more like when teething is done at 8 months or so) to go that long... Now that said, night time is different, IMO.. because it is sleep time and not stressful as when you are not home during the day.. again IMO...
But here is another thought, if I am reading this right, she is created when you are gone during the day and at night?... again, IMO, way to much crate time.
And I am confused by your post that said, "we put towels in the crate to make it comfy, but she peed on them before we got home the next day"? How long was she in the crate?

[Bennih]

Her schedule is as follows:

She is usually put in the crate when we leave for work around 7:30am - someone comes to let her out by 3pm. Then, we come home by 6pm. She's out of the crate to be exercised, fed, played with, etc. until we go to bed between 10pm - 11pm. She's up at 5am, walked/exercised, played with and fed, etc. Then we're off to work again. We both work full time.

She didn't have one accident inthe cate until we put the towels in there.

Our vet told us she should be able to go 7 hours in the crate.

When we have her out of the crate, which is anytime we're home, we take her out every 1 1/2 or 2 hours, or if she gives us a signal she needs to go out before then. We don't take our eyes off her when she's out of the crate for fear of what she might get into. ; )

[tanza]

Vets are not experts and each pup is different with what they can or can not tollerate… Again, and this is just my opinion, if I had a pup that had to be crated during the day, it would be a bed dog at night.... and again, IMO... 7 to 7 1/2 hrs in the crate is too long during the day.

However, all that said, could very well be the towels in the crate, so in that case, no bedding... and you might find that she will always pee (also known as marking) her bedding. Many dogs of all kinds of breeds and mixes do that sort of thing.

[Bennih]

Thanks for the comments. Our hope is that someday she can have some free roam area, but for now, it's the crate.

We will certainly work on our/her routine and make sure we're not pushing her bladder beyond it limit. Perhaps it's a dog sitter/walker some afternoons.

Jen

[tanza]

@Bennih:

Thanks for the comments. Our hope is that someday she can have some free roam area, but for now, it's the crate.

We will certainly work on our/her routine and make sure we're not pushing her bladder beyond it limit. Perhaps it's a dog sitter/walker some afternoons.

Jen

I am sure it will work out, just keep in mind her age.. and another tip… sometimes during teething they will have "accidents" and seem like they have totally forgotten housetraining 101

[Bennih]

I'm so glad we found this forum because we are really trying our best and some days we have little victories with training on various things and other days we totally feel like she's won all battles. It's tiring at times, but we both know that are diligence will hopefully pay off…although it sounds like this breed is a handful for life - we didnt' know this when we adopted her. We weren't looking for a basenji in particular, just a new member of the family - she found us - hopefully, she will bear with us ; )

[tanza]

@Bennih:

I'm so glad we found this forum because we are really trying our best and some days we have little victories with training on various things and other days we totally feel like she's won all battles. It's tiring at times, but we both know that are diligence will hopefully pay off…although it sounds like this breed is a handful for life - we didnt' know this when we adopted her. We weren't looking for a basenji in particular, just a new member of the family - she found us - hopefully, she will bear with us ; )

What is she a mix with?

[Bennih]

We dont' really know - we adopted her from a no-kill shelter in Franklin, TN. We think some type of terrier (of course, that could mean pit), but our vet doesn't think it was a pit. I'm pretty sure she was the result of a full blooded basenji with something else because she has all the characteristics except the curled tail. I've tried to upload a picture, but it's too big. I'll have to take a few at a smaller size and upload this weekend.

[snorky998]

Just a suggestion about crate bedding. When ever we got a new pup we went to the local Salvation Army or Good Will resale store and purchased multiple baby crib quilts and blankets @ 25 to 50 cents a piece. These are comfy and easily washed. (Crate cushions were never purchased until after house training was accomplished and teething was overDISCLAIMERif you have a "digger" and not a chewer, crate cushions and conventional dog beds are never safe:( )

With our Katie, she also peed in the crate at first, but always in the same corner, so we purchased (at the resale store) some towels, hand towel size, and placed them in the crate, in the corner she used. We immediately replaced a wet towel with a newly bleached–so no scent--towel and cleaned the plastic tray thoroughly so no urine scent was left. We then put the urine soaked towel in the backyard and always pottied her in that area. She's a little slow by Basenji standards , but she caught on quickly IMO because regression in behavior was immediately addressed. Re-crating during the day with the baby blankets and towels. She HATED not having her free roam priviledges:D

That said, I also have to agree with Tanza's post. 7 hours during the day is a long time for a young 'un. Too much stimuli even when you're not at home. Night time is a totally different situation.

Good luck! Keep us posted

[Puji]

I have a related question. Do you let your pup tell you when it needs to pee at night (by whining), or do you decide to get them up at a certain time and take them out?

Charlie always slept right through the night, even as a very young pup - he would wake up between 4am and 6am. We didn't crate him back then. He'd sleep in an old laundry basket in our bedroom. We knew he'd be awake because he'd start chewing his bones (or the basket) really loudly, or he'd come over and try to find us. So we'd take him out, and then try to get him to rest a little more. Usually he'd just want to start the day, though. Nowadays, at 15 months, he sleeps in his crate and doesn't wake up till around 8am (though we've been getting him up earlier since we got Lexi).

Lexi - our 14 week old - usually sleeps through the night. She goes to bed (in her crate) around 9pm after a last-minute pee. A few times she has woken up around 2am and whined. She regularly wakes up around 6am and whines. I take her out when I hear the whining - she has to be quiet for me to open the crate door, though. If it's 2am, she goes straight back into the crate after her pee, with no cuddling or anything. If it's 6am, she goes out for her pee and we start the day. I hope that eventually she'll wake up later and later, till she can sleep through the night till around 8am like her brother.

This morning, I found a little pee spot in her bed - clearly not big enough for a full pee - maybe some came out in her excitement to greet me and Charlie? She has also peed in her bed once before, while I was out of the house. Charlie never did this, so I have to admit I'm a bit surprised. I certainly don't want her to get used to peeing in her bed. Should I just see how things evolve and expect that she will wet her bed here and there till she matures? Or should I put her on a schedule at night - e.g. up at 5am for a pee, and then back to bed?

Also, I don't want her to get used to whining for my attention. Though, at the same time, I'm happy that she can tell me when she needs to go out!

Any thoughts?

[tanza]

IMO… the correct thing to do, if they wake up and whine, out they go, then immediately back in the crate. If they are waking up for your attention and not really having to pee, they get the message if they go out and straight back to the crate. IMO it is a mistake NOT to react to their whine.....

I usually will not wake a "sleeping" pup up to go out, but wait till they tell me it is time to go out....

[southenders]

Hello Tanza, I have read many sites regarding whining. Most recommend ignoring it completely. We have two whiners. One has separation issues that we are working on, the other will whine most every morning at about 6~6:30AM. Their crates are located in our bed room. My feeling is that the little one now 10mo's old whines as they want to join their pack leaders in bed vs. going out to pee first thing in the morning… So your suggestion here is to take them out to do their morning job, and then back in bed? And if they whine again, back out... until they break the habit? I can see the advantage that they might equate whining with being let out. Any help would help.

@tanza:

IMO… the correct thing to do, if they wake up and whine, out they go, then immediately back in the crate. If they are waking up for your attention and not really having to pee, they get the message if they go out and straight back to the crate. IMO it is a mistake NOT to react to their whine.....

I usually will not wake a "sleeping" pup up to go out, but wait till they tell me it is time to go out....

[Vicki]

Same problem with my little one peeing in her crate. She has lived with me for less than a week, so I hope the problem will resolve itself soon.

I've been getting up every three hours to take my new adopted girl outside to pee. She lived at a vet clinic for six weeks in a pen, so wasn't always able to go out when she needed to pee and pooh. Cami seems to understand outside is where she is suppose to go, but can't hold it all night.