Huh? The dogs are just running in a pack, and breed at will?
Kind of my reaction too??? However, regardless here is an example of a "pure for profit" BYB…. This is NOT a responsible breeder... and again I will say that I doubt this person did health testing before breeding any of these Basenjis....
No they don't just breed at will, he separates them so he knows who's breeding with who and watches after the puppies, but he has 9 Bs on his large property that he takes care of and watches after. They are all AKC, so he has got to be at least on good standing with them. I am happy with my B and don't care if all you are going to do is critisize my choice to get a dog from someone not as uptight about checking out the possible homes and sort of background checking all possible puppy buyers like many of the other breeders I contacted.
Can someone please tell me why people get upset when responsible breeders want to know about the homes their puppies are going to be placed in?
I put my heart and soul into raising my puppies and my dogs are part of my family. Yes, I screen homes, I ask questions but how could you expect anything less from a person who cares about the puppies they have brought into this world. I would run as far and as fast from someone who does not ask questions about a potential home as I could because I don't know how anyone who has socialized and cared for a litter the way it is necessary to do could not want the absolute best for those pups.
So next time anyone gets a offended by being asked questions about the home you could provide, stop and remember you are asking to take home a part of this person's family.
No they don't just breed at will, he separates them so he knows who's breeding with who and watches after the puppies, but he has 9 Bs on his large property that he takes care of and watches after. They are all AKC, so he has got to be at least on good standing with them. I am happy with my B and don't care if all you are going to do is critisize my choice to get a dog from someone not as uptight about checking out the possible homes and sort of background checking all possible puppy buyers like many of the other breeders I contacted.
I think everyone here is just worried that you get a healthy dog with a good background. Even from someone very careful they can have problems with a dog. If you are happy with your puppy, that's is what is important. Please don't mistake the concern these people have for you as criticism. Most of these people have seen a lot of people just like you fall into something that will cause them heartbreak and pain. Don't forget these people have had B's for a long time and know the problems. We do not have a big gene pool like Shepherds or Labs. If you have been to the man's place and are comfortable then you are using your best judgement. Don't shut out what everyone is saying to you, either. When you need info or advice there is always someone who has been in a similar situation. And the reason a lot of B breeders check out the background of all possible puppy buyers is to limit the number of bad owners who expect a lovable lab without odours and who want to please their owners exclusively, and then dump the dogs when they become, "too much work." We, as breeders, and owners must be more diligent when placing puppies.
My personal opinion is that people should want breeders to know about them, be involved with owners, like Lisa said, we put our heart and soul (and many dollars) trying to raise health, well adjusted Basenjis… not only as show/performance dogs but first and formost at wonderful family companions. People should not be put off when breeders want to know about them.... they should be pleased (at least IMO)... adopting a puppy is not like buying a car, yet more people take more time to do that then a living, breathing animal. People that breed 5 to 6 litters or more a year are in it for the money and the money only... there is no way that you can properly socialize that many pups... and have screened homes for them... Remember responsible breeders will advise people that this is not the right breed of dog for their lifestyle... and encourge them to look at other breeds (and give suggestions)... not every breed is right for every person/family... People that just "sell" puppies do not do "any" breed justice.
I am glad that you are happy with your pup, but that does not mean that the breeder was responsible, especially with that amount of litters. I doubt that if you checked the OFA website there is no health testing for any of his breeding stock... nor does he know what has happened and where all the pups are that he has bred and placed... which means he has no idea of what health concerns may have popped up....
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I am really glad you are happy with your puppy. I am sure he is wonderful and adorable. And I am really glad that we will be here to answer your questions and concerns as your B grows, because I am sure your breeder won't be able to offer the infomation needed regarding health and behavior issues. And I am sure your breeder won't be willing to take your dog back in five years, if your life situation changes and you can't keep him anymore. And I am sure your breeder won't offer you refund money to help with expenses if your dog develops an inherited disease like Fanconi, PRA or Hip Dysplasia.
You get what you pay for…I guess...in money, and/or effort. You can lead a horse to water....
But, honestly, the reason we are critical is because we care about the future of this ancient breed. And people who indiscriminately breed dogs together to make money will ruin our breed...period. And also because you asked for our opinions early on, we gave you great advice and information (if I do say so, myself) and you did what you wanted anyhow....if that were me, I would expect criticism, I guess._
No they don't just breed at will, he separates them so he knows who's breeding with who and watches after the puppies, but he has 9 Bs on his large property that he takes care of and watches after. They are all AKC, so he has got to be at least on good standing with them. I am happy with my B and don't care if all you are going to do is critisize my choice to get a dog from someone not as uptight about checking out the possible homes and sort of background checking all possible puppy buyers like many of the other breeders I contacted.
I give you the lifetime of one basenji to come back here, and rescind that statement. I was the exact same as you when I got my first basenji. They are just so different from other dogs that you will realize that some breeders not only do the breed a disservice, but also their customers. I bought my first basenji from a pet-store/puppymill. I would buy him again if I could. If I had bought him from a breeder, and actually had some instruction, he'd still be alive today.
The reasons that I don't like those kinds of breeders? I've been involved in the rescue, foster, or transport of over 50 basenjis in the past year. All have come from breeders like you have described.
Please, don't be too put off by us now. As time goes on you will realize that there is a reason that buying a basenji is harder than buying a golden retriever.
Vegas
This is the exact thing that I was talking about. But I also would like her to ask us questions if she needs us. We all have horror stories-but we also have been through alot. This person is just starting out. She'll have lots of questions that I would rather her ask us than just guess at the answers. I don't believe that a lot of people know that anyone can be AKC/CKC whether they are good breeders or not.
AKC is a business that makes money registering dogs. It's easier to make money off of somebody that registers 1000 dogs/year, than it is to make money off of somebody who registers 5 dogs/year. People who think that having papers means anything about health, or quality are fooling themselves. All it means is "yep, you bought a basenji".
Those puppymills in MO convinced me that the AKC is total crap. I would never give them a dime of my money. In the words of tommy boy "really all you've bought is a guaranteed piece of crap."
That may be okay for you to say, but we as breeders and responsible dog owners to try to follow a little bit of protocol. You may not want to give them a dime of your money, but we have to as being responsible people. I'm not saying what you said is not true, but then again, if you research any breed, you'll find puppy mills all over the world. With and without health guarantees, anyone can be a byb. It is really up to the person to research. If you've had trouble, you can't blame anyone but yourself for not doing the research properly.
We planned each B we have and waited in some cases a year for each one. In some cases we had no guarantee as to what we'd get (male or female):eek: , but that was the price we felt we'd pay to get a quality dog from a quailty breeder. The first breeder required us to have a fenced in yard…....I know why now!:eek:
I don't think any of these breeders are uptight and I really believe they have the best interest in the breed in mind as most of them don't sell many litters. If they are uptight it's because they have genuine concern for what they're responsible for.......I'll go with the uptight everytime if that's the case.
We did our research and traveled many miles to get these B's.
Instant gratification, seems to be what keeps some from doing the research and IMO getting the best dog possible.
I hope it all works out good for etzbseder, I really do.
Those puppymills in MO convinced me that the AKC is total crap. I would never give them a dime of my money. In the words of tommy boy "really all you've bought is a guaranteed piece of crap."
AKC papers mean something if you know what you are looking at. When you buy a puppy from Permanently ID'd parents with OFA and CERF results you will see those results published on the papers of your puppy. If the parents have a DNA profile with AKC so you can prove the parentage of your puppy the profile number will be listed on the papers.
So you are right, if your AKC papers say nothing more that Sire Name and Number, Dam Name and Number and your puppy's basic description then you don't have a whole lot. If on the other hand you have AKC papers with Sire + health clearances + DNA Profile and Dam + health clearances + DNA profile then you have more than a piece of crap.
AKC topic continued at:
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?p=16156#post16156
First off, I'm a guy. Second, I do have a pedigree if any of you are actually concerned and would like to see if your dog is used for the purposes many of you see as a puppy mill. Also, The breeder and I had many conversations including questions about living cituations and even meeting with eachother in person with all the dogs (I brought my mutt there). I am always welcome to give my dog back if needed, and may even get a refund if less than a certain time period. I don't believe that he would have sold me a puppy if he thought my home to not be suited for one, but unlike many other people i contacted, he doesn't have to see my house and demand I have a certain size yard and fence. this seemed to be the best option for a student in a large apartment to get a very special kind of dog to be a great pet. thanks though for your concerns, they just seem very negative towards a not too overly protective B parent.
If you guys want the relatives there are a 2 from york 2 from cambria 2 from dettbarn and several others. only one is a puppy of one of his other dogs, and no 2 dogs have 1 same parent
Here is the reason why breeders do so much screening and have the requirements they do. These are all rescues located in the state of Colorado currently, http://www.coloradobasenjirescue.org/adoptable.shtml
If you guys want the relatives there are a 2 from york 2 from cambria 2 from dettbarn and several others. only one is a puppy of one of his other dogs, and no 2 dogs have 1 same parent
I think you continue to miss everyone's point. The health of your dog's pedigree is not about having no dog repeated in a pedigree or about using or not using your own stud dogs. It is about doing health testing and making carefully planned breeding decisions. None of the prefixes you listed give dogs with health testing except Cambria and since 2 of the 3 dogs in the OFA database were born in the 80's I don't think they are in your boy's pedigree. It costs $2000 per hip joint for hip replacement in severe cases of HD, does your contract cover that? How many dogs in his 5 generation pedigree are over the age of 5 and being strip tested monthly? How about the reimbursement for partial medical expenses if your boy ends up Fanconi affected? What was the goal of the breeding that produced your boy? How well does he meet that goal?
The information you were given in this thread was to help you find a breeder that takes responsibility for producing healthy puppies and will provide support the puppy's lifetime no matter what.
<< None of the prefixes you listed give dogs with health testing except Cambria and since 2 of the 3 dogs in the OFA database were born in the 80's>>
Lisa, somebody "stole" the Cambria prefix several years back, and almost guaranteed all of the dogs you see currently in BYB or puppymill dogs that have Cambria dogs, are NOT the Cambria dogs we are familiar with. That is the reason that about five years ago (?) the BCOA retired the Cambria prefix.
For everybody else, that is something that irresponsible breeders do…take a kennel name that is widely known for quality dogs, and start using it as their own...nice....
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Honestly, it has nothing to do with being overly protective....it has to do with preserving a breed. Although I do not agree with excluding puppy buyers because they live in an apartment, or don't have a fence, I know there are lots of breeders out there that don't require that of their puppy buyers.
Part of my issue with you is that you are putting info out there that says 'breeders who really care about the breed, and making a good match will make it too difficult for people to get puppies' ....and that just isn't true. You didn't want to put in the effort to find the kind of breeder we are talking about...fine, your choice....but don't make it sound like that is the fault of responsible breeders by calling them "overprotective". Send me a private email and list the breeders that are members of the BCOA that you contacted, so I can see how many responsible breeders turned you down.
My parent's dog, Simeon was an AKC registered dog with Champions in his pedigree. There was something mentally wrong with him…he was very agressive at random intervals. He died at age 9! Basenjis can live to be 18! Just because the dog is AKC...or even has a CH or two in their pedigree doesn't mean anything.
Potential owners should be just as picky about where their dogs come from, as the breeder is about where their pup/dog is going.
It took me months of screening to find my girl Kiya...and I STILL could have made a better decision! I wouldn't trade her for the world...but the breeder now has nothing to do with dogs and doesn't want to know about her or her wins in the dog shows....it's sad but it happened. She also wouldn't take her back if there was something wrong...(which I would never do...) but it's an example.
I would never sell to someone that wanted a Basenji puppy...NOW
Never. I always tell them the negatives about the breed first, then if they are still interested I start drilling them with questions!
I may be new, but I only care about my babies and the future of their babies.
