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Why? Nip & Brawl

Behavioral Issues
  • DukeD

    @Basenji_Boy:

    :) Looks so familiar!:D Yep Senji play for sure:) . Good job on the Vid Jill!!!!:cool:

    Thanks! I'll upload another video - This one is where they're being vocal and very noisy.

    Jill

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  • DukeD

    OK - This gets nasty. 1st one here is when my DH just came home, which started D&D's spat. (Also, please excuse my DH's reference to what's he's gotta do . . .) Hahaa - It's about the spat.
    http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/dukerspooker/?action=view¤t=HeatedRex.flv

    This next one is close to the same spat - I don't know what's eating my kids today - They've been on & off with this more than usual. They'll work it out, right?
    http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/dukerspooker/?action=view¤t=ae35aa1e.flv

    Jill

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  • QuercusQ

    The first one looks like a tizzy over who is going to get to greet daddy first and longest. It is definitely not play…but it isn't really fighting either. It looks like Duke is complaining that Daisy is jumping around while he wants to greet.

    The second one kinda looks like Duke doesn't want to play with Daisy...she gets the message and goes to find something else to play with.

    To me it looks like they are definitely sorting stuff out....that is fine, it sounds like complaining.

    Andrea Walters

    Quercus Basenjis

    NW Ohio

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  • DukeD

    Thanks for your take on these two. I didn't know they have complaints. You read them so well. They're both grumpy today. It occurred to me they need to get off the dock here at home. We will get them out and visit family tomorrow afternoon and thru the weekend. "A tired Basenji is a happy Basenji". (They're still doing it under my chair!) It's about bed time for everyone. ;)

    Jill

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  • B

    If you notice on the second vid Daisy's tail wags a little. I agree with Andrea, neither are fights in my opinion, just senji talk. It's when those exchanges go on longer than that and hackles are up you might need to intervene.

    Not sorry you added that second B are you Jill?

    They look like they're blending nicely!

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  • DukeD

    @Basenji_Boy:

    If you notice on the second vid Daisy's tail wags a little. I agree with Andrea, neither are fights in my opinion, just senji talk. It's when those exchanges go on longer than that and hackles are up you might need to intervene.

    Not sorry you added that second B are you Jill?

    They look like they're blending nicely!

    Right, not sorry. More like adjusting to two. Seems they've been having the so-called senji talk with complaints and very noisy play more often lately. So, I was concerned b/c honestly I thought they were fighting. So I should look for hackles before deciding to break them up - or unless the noise goes on for too long.

    Thanks for helping me figure this out. Certainly I trust your opinions and advice having experience with multiples. I am so glad we have Daisy - She's the sweetest little cuddler and she's learning fast. She can do no wrong when she gives me the look . . . you know it. ;)

    Jill

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  • B

    @Duke:

    So I should look for hackles before deciding to break them up - or unless the noise goes on for too long.

    I have this type of thing all the time with the larger, younger group. If I hear the heated 'Senji speak" go on for too long I holler for them to zip it…..before it escalates and let them know I'm not happy with the bickering. Hackles are a good sign someone is aggitated and you need to pay attention, but I wouldn't say it means they are going to fight.

    Our resident fight cat, when she starts staring and licking her lips.......I step in.;)

    I'm so happy for you that this is working out, it's really fun to watch them isn't it?

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  • QuercusQ

    I would guess that Daisy's "puppy liscense" is about to expire. Usually between 4 and 5 months, the adult dogs don't accept inappropriate behavior anymore. And they get on the puppies to "grow up and knock it off"

    We are going thru that here too. Our problem is that Ivy is very sensitive to anyone having more fun than she is…she a very low tolerance for silliness....so you can imagine how she feels about uppity young puppies! So she reprimands Ariel...and Ariel says 'oh, yeah...scr*w you!!!' And then it sounds like world war III is about to break out..until I soothe all feelings. I would video tape it if I could, so you could see what it looks like just before a real fight...but then I couldn't intervene ;)

    The other adults just complain to her, and about her...but don't really take it to defcon four...Ivy, OTOH...well...she is truly an alpha bitch....in every bad sense of the world.

    Sometimes Duke might need a break from Daisy...if you can separate them briefly, it might help.

    Andrea Walters

    Quercus Basenjis

    NW Ohio

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  • lvossL

    Sophie is the only one of ours that is a morning dog. She also loves to greet everyone, every morning when she wakes up. Her absolutely most favorite dog to greet in the morning is the old grump who always wants 5 more minutes of sleep. Every morning when Sophie wakes up she comes waggling over to me, then to Sam and then we hear "eennnhh" "eeennhh" as she tries to greet Nicky, she flops over and shows her belly wagging away all the while he is making this "eeennnhh" sound. No matter how many times he disciplines her for this, every morning she goes through the whole thing again.

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  • barkless513B

    I not only have a 16 month old basenji, I have a senior rat terrier, he just turned 11. I have a problem with Tobias, he is always slapping Jazz(my senior) in the face. Now Jazz is very good, he tolerates it well. But afer 5 or 6 slaps, he snaps, with a bite to Tobias' cheeks. No harm is ever done, but I worry about what would happen if I did not intervene. I know he just wants to play, however, Jazz is rarely in the mood. Tobias is VERY persistant. Is there a way to encourage playtime so both can get along?

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  • DukeD

    @barkless513:

    Jazz is rarely in the mood. Tobias is VERY persistant. Is there a way to encourage playtime so both can get along?

    This seems to be how my two get into spats. As advised, they will work it out and too much intervention can lead to unresolved issues that may get worse. I am taking the advice to only intervene when the noise goes on too long or when I perceive a WWIII eruption. It seems our interpretation of playtime is different than the canine way.

    Friday and Saturday, we've enjoyed the beautiful warm weather here in MI outside. I've taken my two to my nephew's fenced in yard where they are able to run and explore with his dog, Homer. They've gotten lots of exercise and seem to have released alot of energy. Today, we'll go for a long walk in the park, hopefully twice. Remember, "A tired Basenji is a good Basenji".

    Jill

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  • DukeD

    @Quercus:

    So….do you have a digital video camera? Or is that a feature on your regular digi cam? I will have to do this....I could make a video of Querk screaming his head off for y'all.

    Would love to see and hear Querk. It would be fun . . . to hear Basenji sounds. Their vocals are so different, it's cool.

    Jill

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  • tanzaT

    Hackles up are normal for a Basenji, I have never seen it make a difference, means nothing about a serious fight or not, IMO… usually it is the noise, or lack of it... My Kristii yells all the time at my boy...ggg.... and she always has her hackle up... and she is all noise, no action....

    This is typical Basenji actions... when you have more then one... I have always told people get ready for the noise.. that you never had before.... sounds like they are going to kill each other... but they are not....

    One thing that I can say is that if you ever see that "glazed" look in one or the other to where they are totally fixed on the other one.. that to me is a sure sign that something nasty is going to happen...

    Pat Fragassi

    Tanza Basenjis

    www.tanzabasenjis.net

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  • B

    @tanza:

    Hackles up are normal for a Basenji, I have never seen it make a difference, means nothing about a serious fight or not, IMO… usually it is the noise, or lack of it... My Kristii yells all the time at my boy...ggg.... and she always has her hackle up... and she is all noise, no action....

    When the hackles are up on mine, something has them aggitated. Doesn't mean….fight.......aggitated.;)

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  • QuercusQ

    @Basenji_Boy:

    When the hackles are up on mine, something has them aggitated. Doesn't mean….fight.......aggitated.;)

    yeah…between girls at our house, it does mean something if it continues for any length of time. Sometimes it just means, you are sniffing me, should I be concerned?...but if the girls are circling, sniffing, and ridgie, there could be trouble.

    Andrea Walters

    Quercus Basenjis

    NW Ohio

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  • B

    @Quercus:

    yeah…between girls at our house, it does mean something if it continues for any length of time. Sometimes it just means, you are sniffing me, should I be concerned?...but if the girls are circling, sniffing, and ridgie, there could be trouble.

    Amen to that!:D :D ridgie I love that! :D :D

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  • barkless513B

    Tobias is always ridgie. When at play that is. I have seen him aggressive only toward humans, strangers, and only when he is safe inside the house, and the humans are outside. LOL I know he would run if he were outside with the stranger. Or at least I think he would, as he does not like confrontation, or srangers. Question, it seems that hackles up is happy time for Tobias, tail wagging, mouth open, barooing all the way. How do we really know if these guys are angry?

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  • QuercusQ

    I think the best word for ridginess is "arousal" some dogs get very aroused during play…some don't. Most dogs get aroused during an aggressive display. But before a real fight a dog is always aroused, guaranteed.

    Andrea Walters

    Quercus Basenjis

    NW Ohio

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  • DukeD

    As is with children - vying for mommy-daddy attention is pretty normal. Duke and Daisy do that. Duke used to have all the attention from everyone. Good morning kisses & rubs - everything for him. Now we have Daisy - and she needs her fair share of attention. When I choose Daisy first, I see poor Duke looking slighted watching and waiting for his turn - I kind of feel bad for him. They try to be the first by shoving themselves in front. I switch off who's first. I don't think this is a big problem - but does it matter who is chosen first to give attention?

    Jill

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  • QuercusQ

    Some trainers/behaviorists will say yes….I am not so sure. I try to do tandem petting and greeting when dogs are sorting out their issues. If you have to choose one, I would definitely give Duke the attention first.

    Andrea Walters

    Quercus Basenjis

    NW Ohio

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    To me it sounds like the previous owners praised his bad behaviors when he would take something which would be confusing for anyone. I would begin to give treats when he does good things to retrain the idea. Use a spray bottle for growls or bad behavior. Use it to startle but dont acknowledge the bad behavior. Act like you didnt see the water and dont let him see the water bottle. The other main issue it sounds like is the socialization. I would suggest doing the basic obedience training in a Petsmart. You will have a trainer with you each time you go. You will be introducing your basenji to other dogs in your class in a controlled atmosphere. You will be in a busy store with people that will help him socialize and get used to the people. Once you have learned the tricks or commands from class and your basenji performs them with you flawlessly. Have your roommate use the same commands and gestures until your b can do them with your roommate. Then add a friend that isnt around all the time and slowly teach the dog how to communicate and receive praise and treats for his actions. I suspect that with this training, your basenji will soften that aggressive behavior and want the treats. The behavior may never go away completely, but you will always be around to keep an eye on him. If you have a dog walker, I would think that it is very important that your walker follows your guidlines for training to keep your dog safe when he is away from you. Strangers who have been bitten by a dog have had the ability to put the dog to sleep and it is important that you do not permit him to find an opportunity to slip. My rescue was food aggressive and fearful of everything. She had seperation anxiety, growled, and took 2 years to potty train. It is important to be consistant with your training. It is important to praise. My rescue settled down completely after 3years and I learned the triggers to avoid. I would also suggest not having any pull or shake playing with your basenji which would mimick tugging or tearing prey. When your basenji is relaxed, massage him. Touch his mouth, his ears, hold his feet. Teach him to understand that there is no off limit area. Have your roomate and dog walker do this as well once you feel he has begun learning from the training. Have your roommate help you bathe him, and so on and so forth. As long as one of the 3 of you can handle him in basic training, around people and handeling him you should be more confident that you are protecting him as well as the many victims he could encounter in the future. You know he is great and you want to take care of him. The best way to do that is by helping him learn to communicate with people, not out of fear. Oh, and a soft muzzle is a great way to take him for walks with a dog walker and keep him from hurting anyone else. He can move his mouth, but wont be able to open it. I bought mine at Petsmart when Caesar was a puppy and eat his seat belt off when in the car going anywhere. Do not use it with punishment, but as a tool to let him know it is time to go for a walk!!
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    I've tried this a few times. I think he's getting it. Although my husband is having a tougher time with it. I'm not sure he's using the right body language. I immediately stop my attnetion. And when he starts to play nicer I give him my attention again. I think C3PO is too rough for everyone in the house. Even Topaz my female B sometimes walks away from him when he's too rowdy. The stranger thing is that SHE (2yrs) is actually younger than him (3yrs). She'll sometimes get upset & growl & nip at him.