biting..again

[Scagnetti]

@yodabasenji said in biting..again:

@scagnetti
Thank you for your suggestions!
We are trying to build value in ourselves by hand feeding him from day 1. He doesn't have a food bowl, everything comes from our hand and that is the only time he's really not biting. And during feeding, we usually try to make things fun by teaching him tricks. What else can we do?

We are crate training him, but he goes to crate only when he's tired (he does this on his own on occasion), because otherwise he cries and jumps and he can't calm down. And as I've already mentioned, he peed in his crate during one of these episodes, so we're afraid to do it again, but we'll start working on that more.

We need to start doing are the handling drills. We thought that if he comes to us for a cuddle, that it should be enough, but I guess we need to reward him more every time he's calm.

Thanks!

Hand-feeding is great, but that alone doesn't build value. When I say make yourself valuable, what I mean is doing something interactive with the dog, something where the dog is focused and excited about doing something with you specifically, instead of on an object (toy, food). A session of engagement training looks like this: your dog looks at you, you run away and let him chase you, when he reaches you, give him food rewards, repeat.

Also, instead of focusing on tricks, I would be doing handling drills with his meals.

If he cries and jumps in the crate and only goes in when he wants, then he isn't crate trained. If he peed, then you might be going too fast too soon. Go slowly (meaning don't ask for too much initially (have low criteria for rewarding)), make the crate appealing, do it often for short periods, again, working at his pace. You might be training crate skills for 6 months (hopefully not though).

As for the handling drills, they are incredibly important, especially with sensitive dogs, which Basenjis (generally) are. And handling drills are just as important with other breeds as well, especially if you want to do things with them and make them do things. If he comes to you to cuddle, then he's only going to be fine with you touching him when he wants it. But if he doesn't, which is probably going to be in the daytime, then he'll probably bite. This is also a must for vet visits, grooming, etc.

[yodabasenji]

@eeeefarm
Overthinking and confusing seems the most probable problem here. Maybe we'll relax slowly when we start understanding each other and things will be easier.

THANK YOU for all of your advice, it's been very useful. We really need to make a simpler and clearer plans, set some rules and stick to them and most importantly not expect to change anything overnight.

[yodabasenji]

@zande
Yoda is Wakanda Legend Deep Purple.
And this is him at 7 weeks vs. today at 11 weeks

[yodabasenji]

@scagnetti
As I've already written above to eeeefarm, we will try to take things slowly and start expecting less or at least be reasonable with our expectations.
See, it's the little things that we miss, like him going to crate when he wants it, we were just happy that he goes in there willingly when he's tired.
We've started focusing on handling drills and will be doing just that this week, without mixing 1000 of things at a time.

I can't say thank you enough, you guys are really great!

[Zande]

@yodabasenji He's gorgeous ! Do send me a photo - to my email address sallypwallis@gmail.com and I will include it in the database so the world can see him !!! (and you can explore his family!)
Database link is in my signature block.

[Scagnetti]

@yodabasenji

Glad to hear it. Hope it all works out.

All the best.

[tanza]

@yodabasenji - Correct it will not change overnight... it is like human children... you need to keep the same up... and change comes slowly, period...

[JENGOSMonkey]

@yodabasenji I think I posted this sometime ago. One of my favorite graphics explaining the evolution of a puppy...

[elbrant]

@jengosmonkey

[eeeefarm]

Little trick about the crate. Put something in there that he wants, food, toy, whatever, and lock him out of it so he can see it and not get at it. Wait until he is anxious to have it, then use the cue word you want to associate with going into the crate and unlatch the door.

[yodabasenji]

@zande
Thank you, will send it!

[yodabasenji]

@jengosmonkey
This really doesn't look too optimistic to me

[yodabasenji]

@eeeefarm
We've been doing this from the start, he has a favourite toy and chewing stuff in there and he can only use it inside of the crate and he isn't even trying to take it out anymore.
Yesterday he went all crazy after dinner and we sent him to crate and there he amused himself with the chewing and playing for 30 mins and then settled and fell asleep.
That's all good, right?

One more question about the handling drills. When he's chewing on something he's supposed to (toy, bully) and he's super focused on the chewing, is it ok to touch him or is that sending some wrong information?

Thanks!

[eeeefarm]

@yodabasenji said in biting..again:

When he's chewing on something he's supposed to (toy, bully) and he's super focused on the chewing, is it ok to touch him or is that sending some wrong information?

I think it depends. Have you done this and what has his reaction been? Because you have had biting issues I would be cautious about a possible resource guarding issue, but that may not be a trigger for him. If he is happily chewing away, I don't think I would interrupt unless I needed him for something, and then I would probably call him away. Basenjis can be testy about interruptions when they are indulging in something they enjoy. This is particularly a tricky thing when they are snoozing comfortably and don't want to be disturbed. Quite a few are snarky in that situation, and I prefer to finesse it. None of mine have resented being touched when they have a toy, but a couple have resented something tasty like a bone or rawhide being taken away. (I quit using rawhides partially for that reason, they got too possessive about them).

[Scagnetti]

@yodabasenji said in biting..again:

@eeeefarm
We've been doing this from the start, he has a favourite toy and chewing stuff in there and he can only use it inside of the crate and he isn't even trying to take it out anymore.
Yesterday he went all crazy after dinner and we sent him to crate and there he amused himself with the chewing and playing for 30 mins and then settled and fell asleep.
That's all good, right?

One more question about the handling drills. When he's chewing on something he's supposed to (toy, bully) and he's super focused on the chewing, is it ok to touch him or is that sending some wrong information?

Thanks!

Handling drills are done with food only, not toys or bully sticks.

Touch dog, give food reward. Repeat 100 times.

Also, you said he "went all crazy" and then you sent him where toys were. That's not a good idea, you're rewarding him for being "all crazy".

[yodabasenji]

@eeeefarm
He doesn't mind being touched while chewing, that's why I asked. But I'll leave him alone to chew it off

[yodabasenji]

@scagnetti
Ok, I think I understand now about the handling drills, thanks.

And our thought was, that if playing in the crate calms him down, that should be a good thing, but I guess we keep doing things wrong.

THIS IS SO HARD!!

[Scagnetti]

@yodabasenji said in biting..again:

@scagnetti
Ok, I think I understand now about the handling drills, thanks.

And our thought was, that if playing in the crate calms him down, that should be a good thing, but I guess we keep doing things wrong.

THIS IS SO HARD!!

In general, you don't want to reinforce bad behavior. I don't know what "went all crazy" means, but if it's undesirable behavior, behavior you don't want him to continue doing, then I would advise against giving him rewards (toy) when he is acting in that manner.

If you put him in the crate with no toys, then that could be fine, as long as he isn't spinning around, screaming, etc.

Honestly, it sounds to me like the dog needs more exercise and possibly small amounts of social isolation.

I don't know your dog, or you, or how you guys interact with each other, and trying to glean information off posts is a bit difficult, especially if I'm prescribing something, but all of the information I've given should help.

Also, I said this is one of the other posts, but you haven't had the dog for a long time and you guys probably don't have a strong relationship yet. Things get better with time (usually).

[JENGOSMonkey]

@yodabasenji said in biting..again:

@jengosmonkey
This really doesn't look too optimistic to me

This is just a phase during the journey you're taking together. I don't want to give you any specific advice because you're already getting awesome specific advice already. As others have mentioned in this and other similar threads... trying too many things at once is confusing to the dog.

I will say this... be consistent and committed. Good dogs are the result of dedicated owners/trainers. It takes time for all the reasons you probably already know: maturity, comprehension, consistency, etc. You'll get there together. Enjoy the journey. Celebrate the small victories.

[eeeefarm]

@scagnetti said in biting..again:

possibly small amounts of social isolation.

I think this is an important point. And it doesn't have to mean crate time. Being instantly available to your dog has some downsides to it. IMO, your attention should be rationed, as should food rewards and praise. Anything in great supply loses its value. Professional trainers know this, and many deliberately limit the dog's access to their attention, thereby making it more valuable and worth working to attain. If pleasing you gains your attention and affection, for many dogs it becomes an important goal. (and then there are the ones who just want you to leave them alone, so they are fine with it!)