Debra, although I'm not in favour of overlegislating I applaud this law. If only it could be brought in here.
New Puppy Advice
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@ave_basenji - All I can say is that is extremely small. Everyone of my litters the pups were around 6lbs at 6 weeks and 10 to 11lbs at 8 weeks. Please make sure regardless that the pup is tested for Fanconi and PRA. It is a DNA test that you order from www.offa.org and it is a cheek swab that you do yourself.
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The breeder loves the pups and comes recommended. I see pics and videos of the pup every day and the litters are inside his home, well fed and comfortable.
The mom and dad have been tested for PRA and Fanconi and I have seen proof. I dont want to post any identifying info at this time.
To clarify, i won't be taking delivery of the pup until she is 11 weeks old. I just dont understand why the pup is so small? Any insights?
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@ave_basenji said in New Puppy Advice:
@tanza tests were ordered for the pup litter today
If the parents actually were tested and clear of Fanconi, there is no reason to test the puppies. If both are carriers, be aware that responsible breeders do not do that as they risk affected puppies. Carrier to clear is safe, so testing would tell you if pup is carrier or clear.There is a DNA test for the main type of PRA. Same testing needs as for Fanconi.
"Descendants of basenjis, where both parents have DNA tested clear may be declared genetically free of Fanconi and PRA-BJ1. However, even though errors in DNA testing are extremely rare, further testing for the first generation should be considered for breeding stock."
https://www.basenji.org/index.php/health-issuesAs for the breeder loves the pups... who doesn't? You can be an irresponsible breeder but love puppies.
Recommended? By who? Is the breeder part of the national or local breed club? Do their dogs have titles?
It is a misconception that all bad breeders have puppies out in barns or kennels or bad conditions. In fact, people breeding their family pets produce more puppies than puppymills. Being in the house, fed and seemingly loved really doesn't mean they are responsibly bred.
I am glad the breeder is keeping the pups until they are 11 weeks. However, if you trust this breeder, what is their response to these tiny puppies? Your first resource for information should always be the responsible breeder. I apologize for my earlier hasty post, but it was based on your description of the size, and figuring either you didn't trust the breeder about the cause for size or the breeder blew off your question and assured you it was normal. It is a good thing to ask questions if you aren't sure about the breeder. If you simply haven't asked because you don't want to risk a negative reaction, then I really hope you push that aside. A good breeder wants you to ask, they want you to be educated and they want to make sure you have a good relationship because ultimately you are going to be responsible for their puppy and they want to know if there is a problem that you will come to them.
You can see Destiny Galimore's pup here. https://basenjiforums.com/user/destiny-galimore
As for size, hopefully, best case scenario is that the litter is younger than stated because that weight is normal for a much younger puppy. Since you said the whole litter, that is far more likely for the extremely small size. (If it was only one pup, then, unfortunately, you will see runts who often have serious genetic issues. Runts who are at the lower end of normal are fine... but that incredibly small, no.) If they really are 6 weeks and that tiny, something is wrong.
You can contact tanza privately with sire and dam. She truly can guide you on the lines without you publicly posting them. Also, you can do a check on the sire and dam health testing, and the breeder's kennel name dogs to see official results.
https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?search=advancedFinally, as to what you can do about size and weight... you can do nothing about size. It will grow however small or big. Weight needs to be kept at normal size. Overfeeding just gives you a fat dog, not a big one.
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Also, did @Destiny-Galimore pup grow to full size? @DebraDownSouth
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@ave_basenji - Hellos Ave_Basenji... I would be more than happy to assist and of course it would be confidential. I would need to know their registered AKC names... to look at the pedigrees. Or any information you can supply on pedigree given to your breeders would be helpful also. Please email me at tanzab@aol.com or you can find that email address at my website noted below. By the way, if a breeder is breeding Clear to an Afflicted offspring would be Carriers... Carriers would not get Fanconi or PRA, but would carry the gene (recessive) and if bred would need to be only bred to a Clear. Note that I would never breed an Afflicted bitch, but using an Afflicted sire depending on the reason or is that male was not tested but collected as many males are done before we had a DNA test is not unheard of... and if this was a bloodline that I would want to carry on, I would do it... Just depends on what the breeder is looking to do to improve the breed. We have males collected that have been "on ice" for many, many years... this now gives breeders the opportunity to carry on these lines.
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@debradownsouth - One other comment is that according to OFA there is no such thing as "clear by parents" per say.... not saying that anyone should be concerned, however that said... If it was me and I had a pup clear by parents, if I were to breed, I would still test for Fanconi and PRA... but that is just me. I have supplied a link to one of my bitches that is listed on the OFA site so that people can see what testing results look like. Note that Fanconi/PRA testing it is not optional that it be posted (results) but hips can be noted as not made public and some of the other tests breeders would have to pay to have the results listed. This is not to say that the tests have not been done and those breeders should be able to supply the results to an interested party in the pups
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@ave_basenji Grizzly was at 22lbs around his birthday, November 17th. I fed him pretty freely in the beginning and did a mix of wet and dry foods (Wellness Brands). I left his food out all day and he ate when he wanted, which was sometimes in the middle of the night. He tends to not eat while I’m at work which can be very late so I didn’t feel right depriving him. I feel like it worked well for both of us. Now he eats about 2 cups a day of dry food a day with occasional wet food mixed. He stays lean. He finds ways to sneak eat weird things on our walks so he has occasional stomach issues but outside of that he’s very healthy.
Hopes this helps!
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@Destiny-Galimore thanks! I have been trying to figure out if its possible to go from 3lbs at 7 weeks to a standard 19-26 lb basenji when fully grown. From what i here about your grizzly it is possible. I guess i am a little-confused b/c after stating my pups weight it was as if there must be something wrong but looks like grizzly is standard size now. So it is possible then @DebraDownSouth? my pup will be totally fine and normal size?
When did Grizzly start growing? was there a growth spurt at some point?
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The day we picked him up, January 1, 2018
Grizzly yesterday, January 1, 2019
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@ave_basenji I don't have a magic ball. Destiny-Galimore didn't have a lot of breeders' help and her pup was lucky. If this litter is simply much younger than she says, they all could be normal. Time will tell.
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the litter isn't younger, I have been following my pups growth since day 1. I know the exact date of her birth and am not mistaken.
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@ave_basenji said in New Puppy Advice:
the litter isn't younger, I have been following my pups growth since day 1. I know the exact date of her birth and am not mistaken.
I'd agree with Tanza that under two pounds at six weeks seems quite underweight. That would be more a weight at three or four weeks. Five or six pounds at six weeks would be normal. Four would be on the light side but some dogs are smaller. For under two I'd think something had to go a bit wrong somewhere.
Not saying the breeder has done anything wrong and not saying there will be a problem long term, but the weight is definitely not normal. Unfortunately I have no idea why. I may have missed this but are all the pups this small (by weighing not visually)? I'd think maybe she or the litter got sick or the mother got sick and couldn't nurse or didn't get enough to eat. If pups get sick they can lose weight in a hurry. Do you know how much they weighed at birth? It's possible they were premature. (I'm assuming the breeder didn't test for hormones which would let you know that -- not that they should have, that would be unusual, just wondering if that information is available).
Sometimes you just have to look at them. If they all seem healthy and energetic then they most likely are -- what is is possible. But if they were premature I'd wonder about the 11 week pick up.
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So if definitely the right age, something is wrong... and something equally wrong that the breeder didn't tell you about it from the start.
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@debradownsouth said in New Puppy Advice:
So if definitely the right age, something is wrong... and something equally wrong that the breeder didn't tell you about it from the start.
I remember reading about Grizzly last year and thinking the weight was so low something had to be wrong somewhere. But now he looks healthy and the right size.
Getting odd weights is not hard to do, especially with lesser equipment, which is what I'd expect a breeder to use (not a knock BTW). They move around a lot, and, since the weight isn't that much, small changes can result in big changes in the weight. Plus there are lots of ways to get it wrong, including not calibrating for whatever you put the pup in.
If all the pups were weighed every day then things become much clearer. How does the weight of one compare to another? Was the birth weight low? For all? One? Did they have a period when they stopped putting on weight? A history makes things a lot easier.
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@donc She said the other litter was much larger. Since the pups weighed about the same in that litter, and since any responsible basenji breeder would recognize that the weight was too low and either get a new scale or calibrate the one he has, I'm not sure the weights are that off.
With Grizzly, you might remember the breeder gave no support, pup could well have been weeks younger. Yes, fortunately he looks great now.
These pups the OP has been following, so the dates seem right. Obviously the easiest thing to do is ask the breeder to verify the weight and if that low, get vet checks before committing. -
@destiny-galimore you're not alone. I think somehow they made my basenji a mini or toy size. She's 9 months and 8.5 pounds. Doesn't seem she will be getting any bigger
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@creambasenji said in New Puppy Advice:
She's 9 months and 8.5 pounds. Doesn't seem she will be getting any bigger
This must be a typo. 9 months or 9 weeks?
At any rate, I'd love to see a picture of a cream Basenji, toy or not.
