Pretty Girl
Thank you thunderbird8588
My new brindle bundle of joy…
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Oh boy. I think you need to change the channel, the sooner the better. This is just not working out for you. Would it be possible to place her with a trainer for a time? Obviously you need someone with a good reputation that you can trust, but maybe the only fix is to completely change her environment, basically start with a clean slate. Without seeing the pup and watching you interact it is very hard to give any advice, but what you have tried so far is not working. Certainly the frequency of her "bathroom breaks" is not normal. What is her feeding schedule? The picture you paint is of an animal in constant emotional distress…..
Unfortunately you can never be sure of the right decision until you see the results.
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I'm looking into a two-week off-site training/boarding. The behaviors are the same with a private trainer in my home, so I do feel it's important to change the environment and reboot her behavior. The crate phobia has been the same in other places, however. And the weather hasn't helped– it has rained or snowed almost constantly since I brought her home. The grass is wet and high and she just hates it. So warmer, drier weather may help. I have been successful with clicker training for basic commands.
She eats three times a day-- at 7, at 12 and at 5. She does not have to go to the bathroom right after she eats, however, like a lot of puppies. I take her out every hour, though she shouldn't have to go nearly that much. She drinks a ton of water. And she only pees a little each time. Sounds like a UTI or kidney issue, but we've checked for that. Trainer and vets all think it stems from the confinement phobia. It would be so much better if she could have freedom in the house without crating. Maybe when she's older...
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I'm looking into a two-week off-site training/boarding. The behaviors are the same with a private trainer in my home, so I do feel it's important to change the environment and reboot her behavior.
I think that is an excellent idea! My fingers are crossed that this all works out for you. Remember, it is always darkest before the dawn.
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Thanks so much! This has been unexpectedly trying, but hopefully, it will all turn out.
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I talked with our friends about their first boy, he was flown down and hated the crate because of the bad experience. He'd panic and have diarrhea as well. They said it took about 4-5 months of working with him, starting out with I think a minute and very gradually increasing the time for him to be ok. Then again, they are able to have at least one person home most of the time. They've offered to exchange email or maybe phone if you wanted to talk with them.
With Loki for weeks I never even shut the door. I tried to let him scream it out, but it made him fearful of the crate so I didn't try again. Tiny baby steps, beginning with eating from my hand crate door open to me giving him his food through the bars with the door still open just so it'd take longer. Eventually I progressed to closing the door but immediately opening it so he'd barely notice it was closed before he could come out again. I'd literally add seconds to the amount of time the door would be shut so that he wouldn't begin getting worked up. If he got worked up, he would regress and we'd have to go back a few steps. I think for him it took a good 6-8 months to get him to be fine while crated, but the first few months was very slow going. I couldn't even give him a Kong with the door closed because he'd be so anxious he'd ignore it. And his crate is a size larger than it should be (if you go by the "enough room to turn around") because he still does not do well with that small of a confined space.
I became quite tan with Loki. He was a stubborn little thing with potty training. I could be outside for an hour waiting for him to go, bring him in and he'd pee on the floor. At 6 months he held his bladder and bowels for nearly 12 hours because he simply refused to go in my mother's yard (he was leashed because she does not have a fence up). I'd have to stay outside until he went, however long that took, because I knew as soon as we came in, he'd pee!
On the advice of a trainer, I put away his food bowl and hand fed him throughout the day. He didn't get any treats until about 5-6 months old (brought him home at 8 weeks). It was sort of like a NILIF thing, he'd get food throughout the day by working for it. When he pottied outside, he got some kibble; voluntarily going near, and eventually in, his crate = loads of praise and kibble. I did not have a job at the time, so it was far easier than if I had had one. He was very headstrong and did not like not getting his way so this worked very well for us…he'd have to listen or do something good to get his food (he never went a day without getting all his food, I made sure he had plenty of opportunities). Even when I transitioned to using treats for training I still fed food by hand in crate because we were still working on that.
Ava sounds much worse off and it might be a very good idea to look into sending her somewhere to do some training. Some time apart might work out well for both of you. It's very hard to remain calm when things aren't going smoothly and that's where I struggled the most with Loki.
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It's very hard to remain calm when things aren't going smoothly and that's where I struggled the most with Loki.
Amen to that! There are times when you just want to grab the little miscreant by the throat…...but that tends to set the training back a tad!
Although, with an older dog I find getting angry sometimes results in discovering they knew how to do something you wanted all the time. I still remember blowing up at my last boy when he had done something bad. I often ask for doggy pushups in such circumstances…...sit, down, sit, down.......but this time I forcefully commanded him to "crawl", which we had been working on but which he hadn't been willing to perform, and lo and behold, he crawled like a trooper.......and of course I switched from being mad to praising him. After that he couldn't plead ignorance anymore, but it got him "out of the doghouse" at the time. Win/win in that situation.
Puppies are hard, because it is often difficult to ascertain whether the problem is fear or willfulness. Basenjis are certainly capable of temper tantrums! (and spite! I have seen too much to believe otherwise!)
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Thanks so much for all the advice and support, TMartin and eeeefarm. It helps tremendously to know that others have gone through this– and prevailed! I didn't realize that Loki's confinement and housetraining issues went on that long. I totally get the part about staying calm. I hold my breath, count to ten and slowly release. If I have to, I leave the room for a minute until I can return calm and centered. Thank goodness for all those years of yoga! But it is stressful.
We are working with a private trainer now-- a different one-- and I think this one is getting through a bit. We had a good session yesterday. Ava does seem to be going through another fear period (she was afraid of a tennis ball today!), so I have been proceeding slowly with the crate. I lock her in while she eats, and she's a little nervous with that, but okay. When she comes to the door and starts looking anxious, I go around to the back of the crate and handfeed her there. She's fine with that. When she relaxes, I'll add a little more to her bowl and repeat the process. We're up to 15 minutes, three times a day, which is a huge accomplishment for us. I only let her have water and bully sticks in the crate, too, so we probably net about an hour of crate time a day.
The breakdown in housetraining-- that's distressing. She pees at least once an hour. We played outside for an hour this afternoon. Right after, she peed three times inside-- just a wee bit at a time. We were yo yoing in and out all day. She always drinks a lot of water. And her urine is bright yellow. That can't be dehydration, so maybe vitamins? I would think her bladder might be small, except she held it almost all day at the vet's office-- twice! Ava is petite-- only 11.5 lbs at 17 weeks. That's below average for her age, but she's not thin, eats well and is healthy. She'll probably hit a growth spurt soon.
How much does Kaia weigh, TMartin? She's about a week older than Ava. And how's Kaia doing? Has she completely settled in? And thank you for the offer about your friends. It does sound like their boy had a similar experience to Ava and reacted much the same way. It's encouraging to know that they were able to get him past it, and it would be helpful to get their perspective. So thank you!
And, yes, eeeefarm, I agree that Bs throw temper tantrums-- and they pout. Spencer would turn his back on you and pretend like you didn't exist if his feelings got hurt. Once his favorite vet tech had to stick him twice for blood, and he gave her the cold shoulder for the rest of the visit. Basenjis are like toddlers with fur!
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my basenjis would always sit in their crate with their back to me if i was working someone else or had to walk a course without them. everyone else's dog would watch their mommy/daddy. Not my basenjis.
Oh, and really, 15 minutes x 3 - great, great start!!!!! Congrats.
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Pamela, I always wondered the same thing…how Oakley could hold it hen e wanted to but in the house he never wanted to! At two, aside from the destruction that's the reason I can't leave him free in the house. He will hold it (now) as long as he's in the crate...but if I left him out he would pee and poop in my kitchen...it's annoying to thisday
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Spencer would turn his back on you and pretend like you didn't exist if his feelings got hurt.
The first time we left my previous boy, Sunny, at a kennel, when we returned he did not greet us as expected. He was brought into the waiting room and instead of running to us, he turned his back and sat down. No mistaking that message!
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Yes his issues took that long, sometimes I wondered if he'd ever be crate trained; even just having the bedroom door closed or being in the car made him anxious at first.
Kaia at 18 weeks weighs in at 12.2 lbs. She's so little, but growing steadily and has finally, much to our delight, begun taking naps. She is thoroughly settled in and trying to convince Loki she is the boss. They bonded quicker than we expected and it cracks us up when they go from cuddly and grooming each other to bickering like toddlers. His tail is still her favorite chew toy…poor boy. We have the occasional pee accident...never on the floor, always on either their bed (now removed) or our bed! She won't give any indication she needs to go, she'll just suddenly squat and pee. Friday she did so great asking to go outside to potty, then Saturday she peed on the comforter! We've started taking her to the dog park and she's doing well, going up to big dogs though still a bit unsure of them, even tried initiating play with 2 dogs today. Loki was so much different in that area, loved dogs from the beginning including a 90+ lb German Shepherd he met at 9 weeks. She is incredibly food motivated and once she starts thinking is very smart, but it takes awhile for her to actually think instead of just trying to get the treat out of my hand.
And oh can they be funny when it comes to tantrums or spite. He wasn't happy once while still a puppy when I woke him to go potty...told him to go, the little smarty pants just looked me right in the eyes, didn't even bother to lean or anything and started peeing on the concrete slab without even going into the yard! That was the first and only time he's ever done that. And he'll ignore you too...he'll just stare straight ahead and eventually will just move his eyes slightly in your direction so you know he hears you, he just doesn't want to acknowledge you.
Great to hear about being able to be in the crate for that long 3x a day! That is definite improvement and I'm so glad she's improving with this new trainer.
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And he'll ignore you too…he'll just stare straight ahead and eventually will just move his eyes slightly in your direction so you know he hears you, he just doesn't want to acknowledge you.
Oh my gosh, Oakley is famous for doing this to me, daily...he totally ignores what I say and you can clearly tell he's thinking "ma, you're loud, stop talking...I just don't care"!!
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It's one of the things that makes it hard to tell if an older Basenji is getting deaf. Deciding whether they are ignoring you or actually don't hear you! Of course, food sorts out the confusion. When they don't respond to a sound that means food, deafness is setting in.
I am so happy to hear Ava is starting to progress. Baby steps, and don't be discouraged by setbacks. I find training often goes extremely slowly, then suddenly one morning they seem to "get it", and things speed up considerably.
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How funny– I didn't know that so many Bs did that turn-the-back thing. Ava does not turn her back on me or ignore me; that would be too passive for the little tornado. She shows her displeasure by slapping me across the face. People think I'm kidding until they try to correct her or deny her something she wants. I came home and the dog sitter had a red mark and a scratch under her eye. "I think your dog slapped me," she said. "And I'm pretty sure she meant it." She rares back and gets some swing into it. I'm just glad she can't make a fist.
She'll also lunge at your head, grab a hunk of hair and yank, quicker and harder than you think possible. And she won't let go. She's as wild as a little coyote pup. But such a cute one. Teaching her may be going slowly, but she has taught me-- very quickly-- to keep my head away from her paws and jaws!
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I've gone back to keeping my hair pulled back or up. Kaia loves to pounce on my head and chew my hair.
And I believe the slapping thing. After Kaia got here, I was sitting on the couch and Loki came up to be pet. I began petting him, not really paying much attention to the action and only using one hand. Well that didn't suit him well enough and all of a sudden he jumped up and smacked me on the nose! It didn't hurt, it was very, very surprising though. He has never been shy about tapping or hitting, but had never done it quite so hard before.
There's a reason they're so darned cute!
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So it isn't just a bitch-slap thing! Spencer would paw me, and if I didn't respond quickly enough, he would paw me with a little more pressure. But Ava just hauls back and smacks you good– usually in or around the eye and nose. It has brought tears a time or two, and once I thought I would have a black eye. She packs a mean punch for 11 lbs! And, of course, she's quick as a cat.
I will be growing my hair longer, if Ava doesn't stop the hair snatching. That's funny (well, not funny haha, but odd) that Kaia does it, too. I know exactly what you mean about the pouncing!
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Tucker and Becca both will slap you across the face. Actually he is doing it right now because i am sitting on the chair and trying to ignore him while writing this. He doesn't like that so he's like….whap pet me, whap i said pet me....right at about eye level. I just thought it was my dogs. Who knew this was another quirk.
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Whew! I thought I was the only one who got slapped around by my teeny tiny puppy and now it looks like I'm not the only battered B Mom. So I guess she won't be outgrowing this?
It does look like another Basenjism has surfaced. All in all, I'd rather she just turn her back on me!
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My guy will use his paw for attention, but not on the face. He will bat me on the arm. Occasionally in bed he will manage to land a blow on my head, for which he gets told in no uncertain terms! That is usually when he has drifted out from under the covers, gets cold, and wants to be covered up. I do think it is important to impress on them early just what is "legal" and what is not. Getting hit in the face is no laughing matter, and what if the toenails end up in your eye?
Of course, when we respond by giving them what they want…...being patted, or at least acknowledged......we are reenforcing the behaviour big time! (Yes, guilty as charged.)
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It is indeed a basenji-ism…Oakley has always slapped me...as a pup it seemed directed towards my head...it seemed my voice or tone would provoke it, he'd mainly do it in play or for instance, if I swish mouthwash it enrages him and he slaps my face! But these days he shows displeasure or intrigue by pawing me..also to try and get me to give him something...but it's much gentler these days (minus the mouthwash thing..that still goes on)
I'd keep the hair pulled back and dodge the slaps for now and focus on the bigger things. I say this mainly because I think it's somewhat typical puppy behavior and there are a lot of other "untypical" and rather incapacitating issues..you sure do have a spit fire on your hands.. It does however, make progress more endearing (when you get there)
I live with two things daily..either being ignored or being hit by my basenji....I've accepted that he's accepted he rules and I just obey...
