Results Are In

[lvoss]

If he is clear it does NOT mean his parents were clear. A clear puppy can be produced from two carriers but so can an Affected.

Also, you are still not getting the point about the other diseases that do not have a DNA test and only test the dog's phenotype which does not tell you whether they can produce the disease. You can only estimate their likelihood of producing the disease if you know the health results of the parents, siblings, etc.

If you are considering breeding please get a book like the ABC's of Dog Breeding by Dr Claudia Orlandi and learn the basics of genetics and avoiding producing inherited disease.

http://www.abcsofdogbreeding.com/homestudyprogram.htm

[pedro]

what a minute!, when if that's the case on other problems that cant'be tested then why are you breeding you b's that tells me that your could be carriers and or have puppies thazt are affected then too!.

[lvoss]

Again, you are not understanding what I am saying.

Responsible breeders breed knowing the whole pedigree. So when a DNA test is not present, you have to know the health status of as many of the dogs in the pedigree as possible. That is why you look at vertical pedigrees. If you looked at the vertical pedigree I sent, you would have seen that there was data there for each generation. There may be an occasional "hole" but there were siblings and offspring tested. You need this info to know if dogs have produced the disease even though they themselves do not have it. The more generations you can go back without having the problem the lower the risk of producing the problem but there will always be risk without a DNA test.

[tanza]

@lvoss:

Again, you are not understanding what I am saying.

Responsible breeders breed knowing the whole pedigree. So when a DNA test is not present, you have to know the health status of as many of the dogs in the pedigree as possible. That is why you look at vertical pedigrees. If you looked at the vertical pedigree I sent, you would have seen that there was data there for each generation. There may be an occasional "hole" but there were siblings and offspring tested. You need this info to know if dogs have produced the disease even though they themselves do not have it. The more generations you can go back without having the problem the lower the risk of producing the problem but there will always be risk without a DNA test.

Exactly, lvoss….................

[pedro]

I'm doing a dna of him!. That is all i can do!. Because the other's in his back ground i dont'know how to get the test resaultfrom them if any!!. But if he is dna clear then what is the problem . Your going to tell me that you wouldn't breed your's if it came back clear wheather you knew the back ground or not !! If you are going to say no you wouldn't breed if the basenji was tested clear then your not being truthful on here !!.

[pedro]

don't get me wrong but i know alot of ppeople that just don't care and would do it just for the money with any type of dog!!.

[pedro]

im testing mine to see what come out in the test!.at least i'm trying to understand things before i do decide to breed!!.i also know alot of people that get there dogs in to showing and have not a clue of there back ground either!!. atlest i'm trying ! but you seem to be sooo dead bent on tellying me my dog is nothing but crap!! you don't know and i dont know for sure till the test is done!!. and if it comes back clear there is still a possibility that after a few litters there still might be one that has it . and when that time comes i'll have to deal with it !, not anyone else!!. why are you so bent set on telling me i shouldnt breed him!??? you don't know anything about my boy and i'm lerning as i go too!. but i'm trying to understand and all i keep getting from people is he's a pet store dog nothing else!. noone knows what his potensual could be!!. and i want to know!. it's like other breeders are getting pistoff because he came from a pet store. that doesnt mean he can't produce healthy puppies!!. maybe the breeder was to old and didnt want to deal with the b.s from other people!. i know who the breeder is.. and i'm also trying to do more reachserch on her too!!.

[pedro]

atleast im not sitting here say screw everybody's advice but dam i want to give my boy a chance to seee when can become of him i have looked on the petfinder and have seen dozen's of basenji on there that have never been tested and they don't CARE AND EVEN LIE TO THE PEOPLE THEY SELL THE PUPPIES TOO!. SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM HER WITH ME TRYING TO FIND OUT INFORMATION BRFORE I DO BREED HIM, AND THAT ONLY IS HE''S CLEAR!!!!!!!!> I JUST DON'T GET IT. IT'S LIKE I'M INVADEING OTHER BREEDERS AND GIVEING THEM SOME COMATION BY SAY THE WORDS I WANT TO BREED MY BOY!!. SORRY IF I SOUND LIKE I'M BEING MEAN !!, I'M TRYING NOT TO & DON'T MEAN TO SOUND THAT WAY.

[lvoss]

@pedro:

I'm doing a dna of him!. That is all i can do!. Because the other's in his back ground i dont'know how to get the test resaultfrom them if any!!. But if he is dna clear then what is the problem . Your going to tell me that you wouldn't breed your's if it came back clear wheather you knew the back ground or not !! If you are going to say no you wouldn't breed if the basenji was tested clear then your not being truthful on here !!.

You don't know the people on this forum very well. There are several breeders here who have Clears that they have spayed and neutered because they did not "make the grade" in other areas including just not having enough information to know whether they might pass on a different inherited disease.

[pedro]

Like you said before there aren't test for other thing either!!. So how would you know if your basenji's dont carrie some other type of diseases, then if there aren't any other testing then the one's i already know of. And are going to do before i do breed !. I would like to do a serch on your basenji's and go back 5 generation's if possibel?. Most people cant'ven go back that far to get names i'm sorry if im being b~~~chy but all im getting from people is he's already being labeled no good for no reason that i can see so far ! If his parents where carrier's then most likely he would be one too!. Who know's i might get a total shocker and his test come back that he has it!!!. Hopefully not!.i dont'know on the test yet ! I'm waiting to get it and see what happens first. Then i will decide if to breed!!. But you can't tell me that ther aren't people out there that will test and it comes back that the dog has it and breed anyways! . That wrong to do !! I agree on that but till i know what his test is i dont'know what i'm going to do!. But i bet even if i got a basenji that was clear and the generation was too people would still tell me not to because it still compation for other breeders.!!. Please tell me im wrong on that. I can tell you one person right now that lie about there basenji's and do breed them!!. That to me is very wrong! And i wouldn't do that or put someone through that type of deal. ! If i do breed him and the puppies are infected then i have to deal with that and keep them!. But if he has puppies and there clear then i would sell them . But i would also be honest to the people getting them,!. And not doing it just for money.

[lvoss]

Yes, there ARE other tests.

You can do a blood test to see if your dog has low levels of thyroid hormone. This is a hereditary condition known to be recessive which means a dog can have normal thyroid function but still produce offspring that are hypothyroidism. Untreated hypothyroidism causes several serious side effects including agression, skin conditions, obesity, joint issues, and seizures.

You can x-ray hips to see if the dog has normal hip sockets but dogs can have normal hip sockets and still produce severe dysplasia. The best way to prevent hip dysplasia is to only breed dogs that come from families of OFA GOOD and EXCELLENTS which requires you to know the hip results of the parents and siblings.

You can have your dog's eyes checked by a veterinary opthamalogist who can detect changes in the eyes due to hereditary disease. Many diseases of the eyes are progressive and require yearly checks. Many of the diseases are recessive meaning that a dog can have normal eyes and still produce the disease. The only way to know the likelihood of their carrying the genes for the disease is to know the health status of the parents.

[lvoss]

Basenji disorders are late onset, you won't know when the puppy is born if it is affected. In some cases it takes 5 or more years for the disease to manifest.

[pedro]

got you at one that it dont'matter if the parents hsve good or excellint resaults and that wil the hip!!. my brother had a cattle dog pure breed and the parents where tested and proved it with pappers but my brothers still got hip displasia!!. it's the same if a child has leg perthes!!. how odd is that!?> i just found that out 3 yrs ago. but i'm going to get him tested for all of these. brfore i do anything with him.

[lvoss]

OFA's Recommended Breeding Principals for Hip Dysplasia

Breed normals to normals
Breed normals with normal ancestry
Breed normals from litters (brothers/sisters) with a low incidence of HD
Select a sire that produces a low incidence of HD
Replace dogs with dogs that are better than the breed average

The bolded statements require that you know the health testing results of dogs in your dog's pedigree meaning parents, grand parents, great grand parents. It also requires that you know the status of siblings.

For more detailed information about breeding away from inherited disease when only phenotypic testing is available, read this article http://www.offa.org/hovanart.pdf

Responsible breeders, breed dogs from known pedigrees with generations of health testing in order to reduce risk of producing disease.

Just because someone produces puppies and sells them does not make them responsible.

[pedro]

what is this breed normals tobrother /sister that right there in breeding!!!>

[tanza]

@pedro:

what is this breed normals tobrother /sister that right there in breeding!!!>

I don't think you are understanding this very well, it doesn't say breed brothers and sisters, it says that you should breed litters that the brothers and sister have a low rate of HD.

In order to do that, you need to know the history of a dogs sire/dam, grand sire/dam, siblings (brothers and sisters)

And I have quite a few "clears" that are show and performance champions that for other different reasons I never bred. So it is very true that just because they are clear for Fanconi there are a number of other factors that go into deciding the breed.

[tanza]

@pedro:

I would like to do a serch on your basenji's and go back 5 generation's if possibel?.

Easy enough to do, just take the names of any of my dogs or lvoss dogs (from our websites) and go to http://www.pedigrees.zandebasenjis.com/search.html

You can find way more then just 5 generations.

And responsible breeders do NOT consider other responsible breeders competition … as there is no money to be made by breeding and placing puppies if you are a responsible breeder

[pedro]

so basicly he's being labled a bad basenji just because i don't know much about his back ground!, and he hasn't even gotten the test done yet!< but there are still things that he can get ,that all basenji's can get but there are no test to get done to see!. and your selling your basenji's with out the test but your saying your basenji's are complete healthy!. i don't get it!! if i sound like i'm being nastey then just tell me to shut up!!.

[pedro]

your selling the puppies so that tells me there is money invaled in the breed!!.

[agilebasenji]

@pedro:

you don't know and i dont know for sure till the test is done!!. and if it comes back clear there is still a possibility that after a few litters there still might be one that has it . and when that time comes i'll have to deal with it !, not anyone else!!. why are you so bent set on telling me i shouldnt breed him!???

Unless you're keeping all the puppies you breed, you are not the only one dealing with it. The person who will deal with it the most is going to be the owner of the puppy with "it". I've had a dog with hip dysplasia and I've had a dog fall over dead at 5 years old. The breeder of either dog did not deal with the heart ache or anything else for that matter. (For those of you who know my basenjis, neither of those dogs were basenjis.)

Why are people telling you you should not breed? Because they've been in the breed for so long and seen so much. Because they are involved in rescue. Because they love the breed more than they love one individual.

Why do conformation shows? Because it trains your eye, it forces you to look at other basenjis. I've been to shows where competitors just grumble because they didn't win, but a better use of that time is to look at what the judge does. Find good points with every dog in the ring. Find what you'd like to improve in every dog. If you just stay home and only look at your own dog, you're not getting a very good/broad picture of the breed. A Ch infront of a dog's name says someone other than his owner thought him a worthy, quality basenji. (Everyone thinks they have quality basenji.) THAT'S why I show even when I'd rather be doing performance venues.

Why do performance? Because I enjoy it. Because the dogs enjoy it. Because I enjoy the process of training my basenjis. But it also proves that my dogs can do something other than look pretty. I think lure coursing is very valuable in a breeding program (especially for someone new at breeding) because it shows a breeder is preserving the drives that should be in this breed.