@elbrant yes. But only in relation to crate training. Meaning training her to be in her crate at night. That's it. Other than that it's as I said above.
"My pup, 10 weeks, does this and I am certain it is vengeful. It started with crate training. When we'd put her in the crate she'd throw a fit. If we left her be, she would eventually get super hysterical and then just poop in the crate."
@elbrant thanks. I've gone back on my messages to try to understand why people think we have her in a pen. I can't find it, but maybe I'm just not seeing my words through other people's eyes. We don't keep her in her pen. In fact, we're doing exactly what you suggested. Our living room and kitchen are connected and they have one doorway to the family room and upstairs. We've put a puppy gate at that doorway and give her free roam of the two rooms. On one end of the living room, my step daughter does remote learning for school due to Covid. My wife works from the breakfast nook in the kitchen. The puppy, is out and free to roam that entire area. There is the occasional "get down" command when she jumps on a coffee table or end table, but otherwise, she's left to her own devices. She has a bed, NOT IN HER CRATE, with a blanket and toys. She spends a lot of time sleeping there. When she's not sleeping, she's usually at someone's feet with something she's chewing on or speeding around the couch like a banshee. Her pen and the crate are in the living room and the door is left open to both. On occasion she'll go in there. We don't stop her but we don't encourage it either.
Thanks for the tip on leaving the house. It's a little more difficult with everyone working from home due to Covid, but I think it's a good idea. Thanks!
Basenji's want to be with their people, but both of your training techniques are to force her to be away from you.
- I believe there has to be a balance. We're going to have her for nearly two decades, there will be times that she will need to be alone. I'm trying to build a foundation so that she can cope with those times. I took this technique from several puppy training books. I know that Bs are different. By Friday I should finally have, Mrs. Kenworhty's book and hopefully there will be new insights I can use there. But for us the answer can't be, "just let her be with you 100% of the time."
, I put the pen outside and I set her in there for 5 mins then bring her back in.
This might work if everyone leaves the house, gets in the car, drives away for 5-10 minutes and then comes home. But to put your dog outside and refuse to let them back in until the timer rings... I cannot see that teaching your dog how to deal with separation.
I sleep on the couch while she sleeps in her crate
For the same reason, you should move the crate into your bedroom. Dogs protect their families as instinctively as they breath. If you get up and leave when you "think" the dog is asleep, what's the pup supposed to think when they wake up in the middle of the night and see you are gone?
- I have been testing this out. He crate is in the living room. Once she's asleep, I go the family room and work. She's gotten up a couple times and makes a little noise, then goes back to sleep. So far, I haven't noticed a major reaction to her waking up without me there. Like I said, "I'm trying." If I notice that it is unproductive, I'll go to plan B.
IMHO, these training methods will only result in an insecure and anxious pup. Please reconsider your training techniques.
- Happy to reconsider. Any suggestions for how to help her with separation issues?
@tanza as mentioned before, during the day she is not in the play pen. She is always in the same room as one of us (free, unencumbered, off leash, totally free) and allowed to do as she pleases. The only time she is in her pen alone during the day is when we're doing separation exercises. That is, I put the pen outside and I set her in there for 5 mins then bring her back in. I do that two or three times a day. So total of 15 mins in her pen by herself during the day for those.
At night, I sleep on the couch while she sleeps in her crate. It is my hope that we can train her to sleep downstairs. I may fail miserably at it, but I want to try. Right now, she's sleeping without issue until 4 AM, where she wakes up and wakes me up. I take her out she goes potty and then I put her back in the pen. She will usually then make a fuss for about 10 mins and go back into her crate to sleep. She's up again at 6:30 and then it's out to potty and a 20 min walk before breakfast. My goal is to be able to slip upstairs once she's asleep and then come down to let her out when she needs it. I know this will take a lot of time - I've been sleeping on the couch since we got her. However, I know that nothing in life is easy and good things are earned. So like anything else, I'll either earn it or decide the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
@donc Thanks again for the suggestions and if you do find someone, please let me know. I agree that starting now may be a little early. I'm searching now because I don't know how long it will take to find someone and then I don't know the schedule of the trainer, so I'm just trying to get organized so that I can be ready when she is.
I'll try the Esbilac and be more patient.
"I think the only thing better than shoes for these guys when they are young are shoe laces. Walk into a room with a bunch of Basenji puppies with shoes with laces and you'll walk out with shredded laces. They are like mammalian piranha. LOL Laces survive ten seconds top."
This is troof! I try to keep my shoes away from her, but when I walk into the room she's in and I have shoes - her eyes light up and wild horses couldn't drag her away!
This forum has been a little unkind to me - that's ok. I'm a nube to Bs and I guess everyone here is an expert, but I will give thanks to whoever posted the trick about rubbing Vapor Rub on your feet to stop the biting. The girls tried that last night and MAGIC! She took one whiff and in disgust snorted loudly and hasn't touched their feet since. 1 Challenge solved!
I don't know if I'm typing in another language or if I've just upset the collective forum. We NEVER punish her in her play pen ever. She have never been put in time out in her play pen. That pen is being used for: 1) the place where her crate is at night so that we can leave the crate open as that seems to make her more comfortable; 2) a place where we play and enjoy each other together in addition to our playtime outside the pen; 3) a place we are using to help build up her ability to be away from us slowly. We're currently doing 5 minute intervals.
All that we do is play with her around the house. In every room downstairs. Heck she even goes into the bathroom with the girls when they go. Obviously we work, so there are times she's not being played with, but for those times she's mostly in her bed (a separate bed in the same room as us, not the crate.) I take her on 3, 20 minute walks every day, (I have to limit those to just side walks because she hasn't gotten her third set of vaccines yet). When I said we play in the play pen, it was because we play so much with her outside of the pen, that I worried she would see the pen as a boring ho hum place where she ends the night and therefore would start to resist going into the pen.
We may not be a perfect B household, this is our first one, but we care very much for her and we're trying are absolute best to build a warm, loving, and trusting home for her. That will happen over time and we'll be patient. More patient than this forum.
@eeeefarm I initially hesitated to post here, because like a lot of things on the internet, responses can seem judgmental.
I disagree with you. 9 weeks is early in the pups life, but by 16, you've really got to have things figured out. So I think I'm right on time to start thinking about bolstering my tactics if I'm not getting the desired outcomes.
You're right, a trainer isn't going to solve all my problems. But if there happened to be a good trainer in San Diego, I don't see how it could hurt. Do you?
Perhaps one useful thing that I would get out of it would be that a third party would help us come together on a united front and help all of us see the value of staying on the same page. Sometimes, people will listen more to an "expert" than they do to people they know, even if the advise is the same. Kind of like, when my wife says I've been eating to much cholesterol causing foods and I blow her off. Then my Dr. says if I don't stop, I'm going to die. I listen a little more.
I'm am in fact trying to find those things that work and to be fair to myself, I've found somethings that do. I also know that I don't know everything and that reading and listing to professionals can help. So I've order several books, read several that are available online, and I'm making the best effort I can to pick things up and create a warm, safe, and happy environment for my pup.
And, if I can find a trainer, that can help guide me, I'll use them. If not, I'll figure it out without them.
Hi @tanza, thanks for the reply. I shortened want I did to "asked her to stop." We yelp, turn our heads away from her and then firmly say no every time. She does not stop. Most of the literature that we've read suggest that if she doesn't curtail her biting after 3 or 4 times of this full process, you give her a time out. So that's what played out. The only piece of your suggestion we're not doing is the chew toy, because she doesn't have any interest in them. Every time we try to distract her with a chew toy, she drops and goes right back to biting feet.
We only crate her at night. Because she has separation anxiety, we've started putting her in her play pen outside for 5 mins at a time and our plan is to increase the time out there over time.
We are feeding her in her create. We get into her play pen with her and play so that she associates the pen with good times. We've bought a stuffed toy that has a heart beat sound and pulse in order to give her the comfort of other pups/her mom in the crate.
She is sleeping in her crate. The crate issue is starting to work itself out. It's been a while since she's done eliminated in her crate.
I was sharing with hizbaby, that the behavior she described seems to mirror what my little lady is doing. She eliminates when she's upset.
@jengosmonkey thanks for the response! Because she's so small we haven't ventured into people food too much. We read that frozen peanut butter was the golden crate training treat. Yeah, just spent the next day cleaning peanut butter off the sides of the crate. She just let it melt, then sat/laid on it and then spread it everywhere.
I think one of the other variables is that my wife and step daughter watch her too. I think they are unsure of how to deal with her and give up. Then she runs the roost until I come down from work. Which means that we have to relearn things nightly together. So in part, I hope the trainer can help train us in how to be a united front and give her the best growing experience possible.
But my secret weapon is that I'm more persistent than the waves. I'll keep at it. We'll get there.
@donc thanks for the response! I'm hoping maybe I just haven't found the right treat. We've tried a few and most she won't even eat. There is one brand that she eats and that's the one we've been using for potty and other training. But it's just ok for her. She gets a couple small pieces or one big piece and she's content. End of participation!
We're in Der Mar Heights. You? In terms of the trainer location, we'll drive anywhere reasonable. You're right too. Toys are a giant flop! We've probably spent 100 bucks on toys and she couldn't careless. lol. But shoes. Oh the shoes. Those she loves. Loves them something special!
I have raised puppies before. In fact, part of my overconfidence in my preparation before we got her was that I had raised a Jack Russel Terrier. I'm not sure you know the breed but they're more than a handful.
We're having all sorts of problems. Crate training has been difficult, we're pretty close on that now though. She has separation anxiety. Getting her to take commands is not going well. She's not really treat motivated so it's hard to capture her attention. Potty training has been tough because she tries to avoid going in the same place.
While, I know this forum does of lot of people helping others with their pups, I'm really more interested in getting information on a trainer, if one exists in my area. I think it will help beyond this issues we're having for many reasons.