Breeding for the first time?

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  • lvossL

    Have you done any health testing on her? The minimum recommended testing for basenjis is OFA x-rays for hip dysplasia, CERF exam by a certified veterinary opthamalogist, OFA thyroid panel, and DNA Marker Test for Fanconi.

    http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=BJ

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  • diff_eqsD

    She is Fanconi clear and her eyes are fine. The previous owner did those tests. I might want to re-do all the tests though. Does any veterinarian do those tests? Or at least hip dysplasia, thyroid and CERF?

    ~Daria and the gang: Lana the Basenji, Mishka the Akita, Busya the Boxer… Oh, and five Basenji pups!

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  • lvossL

    If the DNA Marker test was run, you should be able to verify that on the OFA website, http://www.offa.org All marker tests must be in the OFA database so if her results are not there then she was not tested using the DNA Marker test. If she had a registered CERF exam that will also show up on her OFA page.

    CERF exams must be redone yearly since PRA is a late onset disease so will only be detected if eye exams are done on a regular basis. CERF exams can only be done by a certified veterinary opthamologist. Hip x-rays and thyroid testing should be able to be done at your vet's office but you must make sure that the thyroid test is sent to an OFA approved lab with the OFA form.

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  • lvossL

    The DNA Marker test for Fanconi can be ordered from the OFA website, https://secure.offa.org/cart.html

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  • lvossL

    In order to make an informed breeding decision with regards to hips, eyes, and thyroid, you really need to know what the parents' test results are. It is only be looking at the vertical and horizontal health in the pedigree for these disease that you can estimate your risk of producing these diseases. How well do you know the pedigree of your girl? Are her parents in the OFA database?

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  • diff_eqsD

    Just checked her parents, both are negative. Maybe the Fanconi wasn't done on her after all. Will order it today. Does anyone know how long it takes to receive the results?

    ~Daria and the gang: Lana the Basenji, Mishka the Akita, Busya the Boxer… Oh, and five Basenji pups!

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  • Rita JeanR

    We got Jaycee's back in about two weeks but I am sure it depends on how busy they are.

    Rita Jean

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  • diff_eqsD

    Thank you everyone for your input! I will keep you guys posted on the testing/breeding progress!

    ~Daria and the gang: Lana the Basenji, Mishka the Akita, Busya the Boxer… Oh, and five Basenji pups!

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  • tanzaT

    @diff_eqs:

    Just checked her parents, both are negative. Maybe the Fanconi wasn't done on her after all. Will order it today. Does anyone know how long it takes to receive the results?

    Have you talked to her breeder? The best way to find out about Sire/Dam, Siblings, etc is to talk to the breeder.

    Do you have a sire picked out? And have they approved your girl?

    And really they can't be negative, there is no negative for Fanconi it is Clear, Ind, Carrier or Affected?

    Pat Fragassi

    Tanza Basenjis

    www.tanzabasenjis.net

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  • tanzaT

    @diff_eqs:

    Thank you everyone for your input! I will keep you guys posted on the testing/breeding progress!

    And you really should have her hips done, eyes checked and Thyroid done before considering breeding her.

    Pat Fragassi

    Tanza Basenjis

    www.tanzabasenjis.net

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  • K

    And the sire you want to breed to should have all of these tests as well. And the same pedigree research should be done on him too. After all, the puppies will be genetically half his too, not just your girl.

    Make sure you think long and hard and do lots of research before getting involved in breeding. The Basenji "season" is coming up fast and maybe waiting until next year will give you more time to complete health tests, find a sire that complements your girl, and prepare your litter plans? If you are going to bring puppies into this world, you need to be responsible for them for their entire lives and ensure that you have done the best you can for the breed to produce the healthiest, happiest, well socialized dogs for their new homes.

    Kelli Harmon

    Kiroja Basenjis

    Southgate, MI USA

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  • diff_eqsD

    @tanza:

    And you really should have her hips done, eyes checked and Thyroid done before considering breeding her.

    Yep, everything is getting done within the next two weeks, already talked to vets.

    ~Daria and the gang: Lana the Basenji, Mishka the Akita, Busya the Boxer… Oh, and five Basenji pups!

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  • diff_eqsD

    @tanza:

    Have you talked to her breeder? The best way to find out about Sire/Dam, Siblings, etc is to talk to the breeder.

    Do you have a sire picked out? And have they approved your girl?

    And really they can't be negative, there is no negative for Fanconi it is Clear, Ind, Carrier or Affected?

    Clear for Fanconi I meant. Thanks for pointing it out.

    I have not picked a sire yet. I have two breeders in mind which might dogs available. I am getting all tests done first to make sure that she is even suitable for breeding, and then I am going to call both breeders, see what they have.

    ~Daria and the gang: Lana the Basenji, Mishka the Akita, Busya the Boxer… Oh, and five Basenji pups!

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  • tanzaT

    It is recommended that hips are NOT done when a Bitch is close or in season. There are physical changes in bitches that are in season due to the fact that their body is "expecting" or "preparing" for possible birth. You will not really get a good result.. IMO

    Pat Fragassi

    Tanza Basenjis

    www.tanzabasenjis.net

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  • mauigirlM

    Perhaps if you share the breeding of your bitch the people here might be able to give you valuable input you wouldn't otherwise know given this is your first time breeding a basenji. And this is not to say that anyone should feel comfortable giving a sub-par companion dog to a stranger, but…I'm assuming that the people who love your bitch are friends and they will be part of your life after they get their puppy. Should any problems arise 10 years down the road that can be prevented AT THIS STAGE RIGHT NOW, it comes back to you.
    There is an incredible amount of experience and knowledge in the people here and it would be smart to use it as well as you can.

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  • diff_eqsD

    Ok here's her pedigree: Chargare's Rasha (Karak's Moses Mahena x Karak's Padme Hum) x Chargare's Busara (Karak's Buddy Capo x Cambria's Cahuilla Jewel). Both the sire and the dam were bred by Richard Hanna. I have not decided on the mate for my girl yet, I was going to call around and see who has a suitable male (preferrably red and white). Maybe someone here who reads this can suggest a sire in California?

    Thanks!

    ~Daria and the gang: Lana the Basenji, Mishka the Akita, Busya the Boxer… Oh, and five Basenji pups!

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  • tanzaT

    Is your girls registered name Busara's Nzuri Moyo? If so, both her sire and dam are DNA for Fanconi as Clear. While there is no "clear" by parentage, at least it is good that the sire and dam are clear. That said, looking in the OFA database there is no other health testing done. Also if this is your girl, there is Hip Dyplasia in her pedigee.

    I have never heard of her breeder and I have been in Basenjis for 20 years.

    Pat Fragassi

    Tanza Basenjis

    www.tanzabasenjis.net

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  • mauigirlM

    Pat,

    According to Sallie's pedigree site, Busara's Nzuri Moyo was born Nov '05 and would be 4 this fall. I think she said her bitch will be three….

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  • tanzaT

    @mauigirl:

    Pat,

    According to Sallie's pedigree site, Busara's Nzuri Moyo was born Nov '05 and would be 4 this fall. I think she said her bitch will be three….

    Yes, I saw that…. it was said that the bitch would be three in November, but since they only have had her a year, maybe they have the age wrong. If not, then she is not AKC registered.

    Pat Fragassi

    Tanza Basenjis

    www.tanzabasenjis.net

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  • YodelDogsY

    She still could be AKC registered. If a dog has not been used for breeding then it won't be in the AKC stud books Sally gets most of her data from. If no one submitted this dog to Sally voluntarily then she would not be in the database. Another reason why we need everyone to submit their dog's registration info for the database, no matter what registry is used or what country it is from. Even unregistered dogs whose parent's names are known can be included. Let's do it folks!

    Robyn Dubbert

    Sherwood Basenjis

    One thing that I have learned in life is to accept that things are not all black or all white. Life is shades of gray and just because someone sees a different shade of gray than you do, it doesn't mean their shade is right or wrong, its just different. ~ Robyn Dubbert

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  • taylor.rene.gT

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    @bigv said in When to consider breeding?: So Taylor.rene . A little bit about my findings over the last 30 years is that every person who breeds dogs calls them self a responsible breeder? "" Yes, and fortunately for about 20 year now, anyone who really wants to verify if the breeder is actually believable can do so. Some breeders have no problem with incest for the sake of a ribbon as (dogs aren't people )..It is all about titles not the betterment of the breed. Being involved with race horses..<< Gosh, where to begin. " Incest" is a morality terminology, applied as everything from just not parent/child and aunt or uncles/nieces and nephews....all the way to 2nd or even 3rd cousins. It has little to do with genetics, hence adopted children count, and everything to do with moral views. That said, the human race is far from universally avoiding what would be called close line breeding or even incest. Isolated communities ...either physically by geographic terrain or socially by groups such Ashkenazi Jews and Romani, have limited gene pools. Ashkenazi Jews, btw, joke we are all no further than 5th cousins, but it is nearly true. Dogs and animals have no such manmade morals. A common propensity for many mammals to not to mate with closely related animals has nothing to do with incest. In limited populations they will mate, and the problems that arise if it occurs too often are due to decreased gene, increased expression of harmful genes etc. In controlled breeding, line breeding, even close, can be used to find if there are harmful recessives, or bring out desired recessives. If you think it isn't done with livestock, including horses, you're mistaken. With knowledgeable breeders who keep up on genetics, it absolutely is for the betterment of the breed, not a ribbon... Yes I am not a fan of line breeding but it seems that every zoo in the world has a similar view as they are always swapping animals to improve the genes . ...<<<<< Again, absolutely nothing to do with incest. Zoo animals, even those of nonendangered species, have a serious issue with limited gene pools. The level of that limitation cannot be compared to most pet breeds. We aren't talking many thousands of individuals, or millions, but sometimes 100 or less. Stud books are kept, for example, on all the polar bears in zoos and the effort to keep the diversification as high as possible is serious. (I'll leave out my views on them being in zoos.) So sure, if dog breeders were faced with THAT level of limited gene pool, line breeding would probably be avoided as much as possible. However, that all ignores the fact that dogs in any breed are mostly related.. If you go back 10 or more generations, you find the same dogs heavily in most lines. Sometimes 2 dogs that aren't related 3 generations back may share more actual genes than a closely related dog who has a lot of breeding out of the line on one side. That's where knowledgeable breeders come in. Having studied dingos for the past 15 years I can say without dought a bitch won't mate with relative... They are similar to basenjis in many ways. ...<< That's nice that you've studied them. But researchers are making new discoveries based on actual observations and finding a lot of what they thought isn't true. With massive interbreeding with domestic dogs, the pure dingos are disappearing. I envy those of you able to see them. However researchers suspect they have ...>>During this a hitherto unknown form of the “pure” dingo was discovered (based on DNA and skull features): a white dog with orange spots on the fur. This variant was considered as a single mutation or the result of interbreeding with an isolated dingo population.<< So they don't rule it out. (I downloaded to read, over 100 pages but you might love it. I'll save for later! https://web.archive.org/details/http://www.invasiveanimals.com/downloads/Final-proceedings-with-cover.pdf ) And my boy does have a title that no other basenji has . He is the first and only basenji to be approved by the Victorian State Goverment to be authorised to hunt deer on private and public land within its borders. But to some this would make him unsuitable to breed with you figure?<<< First, while you have done an impressive job with you dogs, I am pretty sure that is a privilege given, not a "title," and I am 100% certain his being able to would have nothing to do with whether anyone deemed him not worthy of breeding to. With the right health checks, good conformation, etc, I would think a good plus...especially if the bitch owner wanted to possibly enhance hunting ability. It simply isn't enough.
  • V

    Why do breeders mix Basenjis with other breeds?

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    I have to agree with Janneke. There are some sport mixes that are very responsibly bred. Most often these dogs are bred for Flyball, and involve a herding breed mixed with a terrier. The border-staffy mixes mix the drive of the Staffy with the intelligence and trainablility of the herding dogs, but also to mitigate a bit of the herding breed sensitivity. I think a team of 4 Borderstaffys holds the flyball record right now? They are supposed to be great for what they are bred for. Super-fast, drivey, but with the "off-switch" that is missing in a lot of terriers. They supposedly breed pretty consistent, and the breeders heath test, and try to be responsible. The border-jack is also really popular in flyball and agility. They are smart, super drivey and hyper. As far as I know, neither of these mixes has been picked up by the BYB's and Puppy Mills. Neither of these mixes should go to non-sports homes. Lots of mushers mix greyhound or whippet into their northern breeds to add some speed to their teams. Or they often choose to breed mixed breed dogs that are superior lead dogs or the like. I see no problem with purpose-bred mixes, as long as their breeders are as responsible with their planning and placements as we would expect from any responsible purebred breeder.
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    We will have puppies in the house… but just not born here..gggg.... but thanks for the kind words....
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    @Quercus: <> Right...I wasn't sure if that was the litter that Sue was referring to? But I don't know of her doing any other brother/sister breeding. So yes, Ariel is a product of that breeding. The idea was to do a test breeding to see what genetically, if anything, might be brought out. By doing an inbreeding, you can 'expose' recessive genes, and see what you've actually got. You can also set (as in permanantly set) type...but, that wasn't the goal in Sue/Jeff's breeding. In this case, the two "best" "typey" puppies from this litter will most likely be bred on from, as long as they test out as genetically and physically healthy, they will most likely be out-crossed, to bring in different genes. Ariel's brother, George, is quite stunning, and is easily the best looking puppy in the litter. Ariel has a beautiful head, but is long in body, short in leg. Neither one is what we consider a "show dog" ;) And the litter's sire is quite handsome!.... the dam of the litter, while long in the back and short on leg (like it sounds Ariel is) has a great temperament... both are great to build on the future.... and breeding out from these pups will be great to build on too.... I am pretty sure that would be the breeding Sue was talking about, like you I don't know of any other brother/sister breeding she and Jeff has done.