Hey Darwin…
Glad you liked the linoleum idea...:D:D:D
No I wasn't suggesting you use the xpen at night...I was suggesting you use the xpen during the day or when you go out :). With the litter box, my pup only has the litter box in the xpen, otherwise, there isn't another one in the house. She has never tried to go in anything that resembles one anywhere else in the house (she's pretty much house trained at this point when she is free - 100% on the poop, 99% on the pee), so I know she is not associating using the litter box with being able to poop or pee anywhere in the house. Another thing on the xpen...it helped with my girl Ruby when she was an only dog. She had separation anxiety (she was a show dog retiree and had never been an only dog). She would pee in her crate from nerves...only when I first left. Once I switched her to an xpen and crate, she had more room and was much better about being left alone and never peed again in her crate (or the xpen). I know peeing is not your issue, but it is the same sort of nervous reaction. But that is what works for me, the xpen was just a suggestion and wanted you to hear a few examples of how it works.
It might be your pup has separation anxiety, especially if he won't eat when you leave him a treat like bacon. From a suggestion on this forum, I got a snuggle puppy for my pup's crate...a stuffed dog that has a heart that emits a heartbeat and heat packs to keep the body warm...so it resembles having a litter mate. Do a search on the forum for another thread on that...has a link to where to buy it. Another thought is Comfort Zone (dog pheromone)...comes in spray or plug-in form, available at most pet stores or online (coupons are on their website)...some people have great success with it, and I would think it might work better on a pup that left its siblings as early as yours did.
Another thing that might help, try to make sure your pup is really tired when you leave. He'll might be too tired to notice you leave.
I'm plumb out of suggestions...maybe someone else will chime in. And remember, rational for a puppy is probably not what you or I consider rational at all...ha, ha :D.
This is how Querk is, and always has been about a crate..well, except he doesn't poop in it..but he does everything except that and more. I call it 'crate anxiety'…I don't know if that is the 'official' name for it...but he doesn't have separation anxiety and never has. He doesn't destroy things because he is left alone, he does it when he is put in a crate....maybe more like human claustrophobia. He has literally hurt himself by trying to chew and scratch his way out of a crate. He is a little better in wire crates, but it is all still bad. At over ten years old he will tolerate being crated in the car (while still screaming), but at any other times, he will still chew and rip at the crate until his gums bleed (he has worn down his teeth to the gumline on the instances that he has HAD to be crated). When he has been in a wire crate he dug/ripped thru the plastic pan and damaged the tissue between his toes (this was just a few months ago). I guess this is a worst case scenario...but there are lots of Basenjis out there that are like this. If you handle it correctly now, you will be able to avoid a lot of what I described. We didn't do any sort of retraining to the crate, because we just learned how to make life so he doesn't need to be in a crate...but on the instances he does, he is just as bad as he was as a pup.
This puppy will probably NEVER like to be in a crate...but if you start now, and try to slowly desensitize him to it, you may be able to get him so he won't defecate and damage himself. I will try to get you in contact with a woman named Cheryl, who has the BEST crate training steps I have ever run across. The idea is that you stop using the crate to contain him during the training process...an xpen may be a suitable idea, because he may not feel so confined, or you may need to totally puppy proof a room to leave him in. But you slowly train him that the crate is the place he WANTS to be, and slowly desensitize him to being closed in etc. I mean SLOWLY...if you decide to just close him in one day and leave him, you can undo all of your progress. That is why you have to have an alternate place to keep him safe when you can't be there.
So brainstorm on a way that you can keep him safe without crating him for now, and I will try to get you in touch with Cheryl.
I went thru and read the rest of the posts in this thread. Darwin, the pooping that he is doing has nothing to do with housetraining. At this point, put paper down so your cleanup job isn't such a pain in the @$$. He knows where to go, he just can't control it when he gets panicky. He is better about it when you are gone to work because he knows how to predict the routine, worse about it when you leave for a short time because he didn't expect that to happen, and it sends him into a panic.
Sorry to tell you, there is no quick fix for this problem.
Darwin:
Take heart, you are definitely not alone in your problems with the crate. We have a puppy who is now 15 weeks old - she has screamed her head off, pooped and peed in her crate every time we have tried putting her in it - and - this is only for a period of two hours tops each time. We started with the wire crate, and she realized she didn't want to sit in it so she backed up to the wires and pooped outside every time - we put those bed pads you get for sick people under the crate to sort of save the floors. We tried all the methods, treats in there, food in there, only little periods of time, etc., etc. - nothing has worked. We've basically been housebound to keep her from being in the crate for more than five minutes for weeks now. Yesterday, we bought a plastic crate so she can no longer poop outside it, have put one pad in the bottom, bought some "Calm" for her water, and are going to try to give her some of the Calm, let it take effect, and put her in there while we go out to dinner - like your puppy, she is still young, and time alone may take care of the problem - I no longer am hoping for her liking the crate, but if she will just tolerate it for short periods, I will be happy. Maybe time will take care of your puppy's problem, but since your dog is in there longer, go for the x-pen. Making the sleep crate separate from the poop papers might be your answer.
@Shaye's:
Darwin:
Take heart, you are definitely not alone in your problems with the crate. We have a puppy who is now 15 weeks old - she has screamed her head off, pooped and peed in her crate every time we have tried putting her in it - and - this is only for a period of two hours tops each time. We started with the wire crate, and she realized she didn't want to sit in it so she backed up to the wires and pooped outside every time - we put those bed pads you get for sick people under the crate to sort of save the floors. We tried all the methods, treats in there, food in there, only little periods of time, etc., etc. - nothing has worked. We've basically been housebound to keep her from being in the crate for more than five minutes for weeks now. Yesterday, we bought a plastic crate so she can no longer poop outside it, have put one pad in the bottom, bought some "Calm" for her water, and are going to try to give her some of the Calm, let it take effect, and put her in there while we go out to dinner - like your puppy, she is still young, and time alone may take care of the problem - I no longer am hoping for her liking the crate, but if she will just tolerate it for short periods, I will be happy. Maybe time will take care of your puppy's problem, but since your dog is in there longer, go for the x-pen. Making the sleep crate separate from the poop papers might be your answer.
i just want to point out that 'fixing' this problem isn't a matter of treating in the crate, or trying to get them used to it with short spurts (as Shaye's mom found out). It is a process with specific training steps, that are teeny, tiny baby steps towards a goal. I will see if Cheryl will let me post her steps here as a sticky.
i just want to point out that 'fixing' this problem isn't a matter of treating in the crate, or trying to get them used to it with short spurts (as Shaye's mom found out). It is a process with specific training steps, that are teeny, tiny baby steps towards a goal. I will see if Cheryl will let me post her steps here as a sticky.
Great…please post them if you can. I have a friend (not me, thankfully) that has a similar issue with their lab with confinement...and even has a problem in a pet safe room...pooping and torn off door trim, drywall.
Piggy only has problems pooping when she gets panicky too. For example if we leave her home in a crate and someone comes in the house but doesn't come down to see her or let her out she will do it. We can't put anything in her crate or she shreds it, we tried everything. For a while I was even buying fleece baby blankets at the dollar store and tossing them if she pooped. We gave up on that after a while. The mess was terrible, so I can relate to hours of cleanup… by the time you get her cleaned up and the crate.
We did some desensitizing and left for short periods like I described before, and that helped a lot. My friend that has a B went to the vet about her anxiety, hers would cry incessantly, and they actually gave her meds, prozac I think, for it. I think she tried it, but didn't think it worked enough to do it. Sounded crazy to me.
It hasn't happened in a while so we have been lucky. She has come to terms with her crate now and will once in a while go hang out in it by choice, so I know she doesn't hate it.
Have you tried one of those snuggle buddy things? I wonder if you could find some way to protect it if Darwin had an accident.
Best of luck and lots of patience!
