Newbie, I think I have a Basenji Mix?

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@DebraDownSouth said in Newbie, I think I have a Basenji Mix?:

. I spent about 20 mins lying on top of my 18 mos old male rottie.

I am still giggling from the mental image! But seriously, I agree, going that route is not for the faint of heart (or inexperienced) and I would certainly hesitate before trying it on a large breed dog! I like the laundry basket option, but you would have to keep it handy and you might have difficulty doing it the 2nd time if the dog was paying attention. Just leaving a leash trailing can often give you the control you need, as there is something to grab, and if your arm is long enough you can prevent a bite.

I got into the "bear hug" with my Basenjis because it worked for me, and of course with any breed it works when they are a small puppy. After the initial nippy stage, usually you don't have to go there again, although I have had a couple of adults who would get carried away with rough play (blame my husband!) but after a couple of "hug sessions" I could curtail it with "I don't think so" in that tone.

[Gigi]

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[Gigi]

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@Gigi said in Newbie, I think I have a Basenji Mix?:

. Whenever she doesn’t want to do something she shows her teeth and will bite if we persist. This can be trying to put her collar on AND taking it off. Touching her paws, ears, mouth, tail. I’ve done that since she was 9 weeks old to make sure she wouldn’t be sensitive to touch. She had an unpleasant nail trim experience, 4 people holding her, and now she wants no part of nail trims.........So, you think maybe she does have some Basenji in her. I snapped a couple more pics of her face closer up. When her ears go up she really looks it to me. She has such a sturdy well proportioned little body with long legs, people often say she looks like a little fawn. She also tries to talk to us and makes funny whiney sounds, never had a dog who did these sounds...AND she cleans herself like a cat...we have a cat too. Baileys mother was a collie, so we know that part for certain.

O.K. that makes the picture a little more clear. Some things (like putting her collar on and taking it off) are not optional and she will have to learn to accept them. Have you ever experimented with clicker training? It might be a way in, especially if she is food motivated. You could try wearing heavy gloves when you must get her cooperation, e.g. to put her collar on, so that biting doesn't get her what she wants.

The "unpleasant" nail trim experience. IMO, it is always a mistake to have multiple people involved in forcing an animal to do what it does not want to do. Better to work one on one and let the animal move away when it needs to. You can be persistent, as in "O.K. I won't force you but you are not doing anything else until we progress a little bit more with this". Then when you get that next step, reward and quit. Build on it and eventually you should get there with a willing participant. Again, clicker training might be a way in. But use baby steps. Ask a little bit more each time. Important to reward after you get the behaviour, and use a marker word (e.g. "yes") when she complies if you don't want to use a clicker. The marker allows you to delay the reward for a moment with her understanding what she is being rewarded for. Incidentally, if you were using the crate as a punishment, you need to mark the bad behaviour ("no" is the most common word for this), so she is clear on why she ended up being confined.

From your description of her mannerisms, and from the difficulties you are experiencing, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some Basenji in the mix. I would like to see a side on picture of her standing, if you can manage it.

[Gigi]

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[Gigi]

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[DebraDownSouth]

@Gigi said in Newbie, I think I have a Basenji Mix?:

@DebraDownSouth ... “Scathingly Brilliant Idea” I am a Trouble With Angels fanatic, honestly thought it was a movie made of me and my HS friend...own the DVD and I don’t admit that to many people

I have watched it so many times I could probably recite it, lol.

You sound to have had your share of unique experiences with dogs too,...
Thank you for your generous offer to put me in touch with your friend K9Deb. might take you up on it if we can’t get this turned around. We plan to enroll Bailey at a place called Top Notch Dog Training

Please do post their webpage. Let some of us take a look. Anything but positive training could escalate things. As for Deb McKean, she's wonderful and I still run things by her when I'm stumped.

I have mostly owned chows (rescues) and Rotties. I bred then just moved into rescue, though proudly have my line still out there thanks to co-breeder who has had them at Westminster even. We got into the basenjis for my daughter, who was very petite and wanted a smaller breed. Then we got into Samoyeds because honestly they are her personality and she wants a therapy dog. But I did rehab work with rescues with all breeds.

What state are you in?

[DebraDownSouth]

What Shirley said.. tiny baby steps. You may need to do one nail a day. Lots of praising, lots of rewards.

[Gigi]

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[DebraDownSouth]

@Gigi
They look great, members of the ADPT so that means their training approach is positive, not pop-and-jerk /dominance. If you start working now on the lessons on Mary's site, you will be way ahead and use the class for polishing and socialization. You'll find her methods are probably exactly what they do.

Long ago Mary said to us, "what's your REAL word for come?" ROFLMAO, mine is "don't make me come get you!" So I laughed at their "tips" page. Yep, on target. Never ever give a command you cannot enforce, and say it one time only. Doing obedience training not only trains your dog, it trains the people how to train. It also helps to set up the concept that you are in charge, but in a positive way.

That is wild you had a shepherd/rottie mix! So did I. This idiot neighbor of a friend of my sister had an oops litter of their champion Rottie and GSD. I say idiot because it was about the 3rd time they had messed up (not with the same dogs though). Anyway, they had used up all their resources for taking pups and were going to just put them down. So I adopted her.

[Gigi]

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[Gigi]

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[eeeefarm]

@Gigi said in Newbie, I think I have a Basenji Mix?:

Btw, did Bailey look like she has any Basenji in her in the pics of her standing sideways?

She seems less square than a Basenji should be, but I see similarities. I actually had a purebred who was shorter for his back length than he should have been who had a similar outline.

I think what you are doing is best as far as picking her up when she tries the evasion of rolling on her back. Otherwise you train her to use that when she doesn't want to do something. However, if you are tired of being bitten you might want to let her trail a leash for awhile so you just have to grab it instead of putting yourself at risk.I am surprised she is still biting if she isn't getting her own way by doing it! I assume she knows it is unacceptable, but then one should never assume anything with a stubborn training problem. Usually resistance is either fear or "I don't want to", but sometimes it's a communications problem.

I agree with positive and hopefully you can get there, but if you are absolutely sure the dog understands and is simply defiant, sometimes you just have to make it abundantly clear that you won't tolerate the behaviour.

[DebraDownSouth]

I was going to suggest the leash also. Leaving a short leash on so you have something to grab and not get bit is the safest method. If it makes you feel better, put a harness on her, then you can simply hoist her to her feet and take her where you want.

[Gigi]

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[Gigi]

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[eeeefarm]

@Gigi said in Newbie, I think I have a Basenji Mix?:

she would chew through every leash we put on her.

Now that is a Basenji trait! Maybe try a short leash or for that matter a short chain that she can't chew. You are going to have your hands full with this girl, but if you challenge her intellectually it may work for you. Since she learns fast, keep her engaged and her brain busy with new things. I taught my boy to retrieve articles by name, which is a useful talent. I can give you step by step instructions if you aren't sure how to go about it.

Talk to her a lot. Keep her interested and listening to you. When she does as requested, make it worth her while. I think she will eventually decide to please herself by pleasing you, but it isn't going to come easily. One of the first dogs I trained (not a Basenji) was incredibly stubborn until the day she changed her mind and decided to do things my way. After that there was nothing she wouldn't do for me, but it was a long time coming.....

[Gigi]

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[DebraDownSouth]

LOL on leash.. they have tiny hidden scissors that they cut leashes with. Cara actually is good but my other 2 I had to use this type that I made with rings and a chain.

[eeeefarm]

@Gigi said in Newbie, I think I have a Basenji Mix?:

About talking to her, did I post that she tries to talk back?

You had mentioned her vocalizations. Do they sound like Basenji yodels? There are quite a few examples on line. BTW, the mannerisms you have mentioned, including the crossed paws, the prancing, not liking water, cleaning herself like a cat, the quick intelligence, the daintiness, all add up as Basenji traits. I will be very interested in the results of a DNA test.

I love that you talk to her all the time. I always have, with all my animals. Like a child, they learn much and understand more than many people realize. My hero is Charles Eisenmann, who "educated" the Littlest Hobo dogs. I had the great fortune to see him and his dogs in person. They were unbelievable and appeared to understand everything he said to them. People used to speculate about whether they actually did or if he was signalling to them in some way, but the performance was so astounding it really is a moot point how he managed it. I have never, before or since, seen anything that comes close, and I do not believe you could obtain those results by conventional "training". I have his books and experimented with his methods with good results, but I never had the time or the talent to really achieve what I'm sure is possible with dedication.