Basil's worse after meeting with behaviorist

[basilboy7]

@lvoss:

Yes, you can train that way without the clicker. You can use "yes" as a marker instead. The nice thing about the clicker is that it allows you to better capture that instant of the behavior you are looking for when they are doing a lot of what you aren't looking for.

Okay, where can you find a clicker?

[eeeefarm]

@basilboy7:

Thank you for the video. Do you think I can train this way without using a clicker.. just by treating? Yesterday I started getting him to sit before I allowed him on the grass and then treating him to coming to the sidewalk when I say "come basil". I think this might help deter his biting while walking as well. Thanks for the tips

Yes, you can certainly train without a clicker…...a clicker is most useful for teaching new behavior, and he already knows how to sit and come. It does sound like you're making progress. It's important that biting NEVER gets the thing that he wants, as that would reenforce the biting behavior. Is Basil unusually touchy about having his feet and legs handled? Personally I have never had a dog that had areas of his/her body I couldn't handle at will, or a horse either, for that matter....

[basilboy7]

@eeeefarm:

Is Basil unusually touchy about having his feet and legs handled? Personally I have never had a dog that had areas of his/her body I couldn't handle at will, or a horse either, for that matter….

Yes he is, if I just went over and lifted up his leg his head would turn around fast and he would try to get away. That's why I'm working on soft touches while he's laying down and calm, giving him a treat if he allows me to without squirming or looking uncomfortable.

[eeeefarm]

@basilboy7:

Yes he is, if I just went over and lifted up his leg his head would turn around fast and he would try to get away. That's why I'm working on soft touches while he's laying down and calm, giving him a treat if he allows me to without squirming or looking uncomfortable.

Has Basil got a reason for being this way? Perhaps he wasn't handled sufficiently as a puppy? Or handled roughly so that it frightened him? The breeders I got pups from all made a point of handling them from an early age, making sure there were no areas of their bodies that they were touchy about. You can do the same with foals…..

[basilboy7]

I handled Basil a lot from when he was 8 weeks old but I can't speak for the breeder as a lot of things were iffy about her after I received Basil. A lot of things point out that the breeder may have lied about Basil being 8 weeks when he was given away and that he could have been a few weeks younger. I believe this could contribute to some of Basil's behavioral problems because he might not have had adequate time with his mother and littermates to learn what he needed to. Especially because he was the 2nd last one to leave the litter, I am worried about when his littermates left the litter. I have been in contact with the owner of his sister though, who hasn't had problems with biting or handling, but has had difficulties with house training.

I was very conscious about handling Basil, holding his legs, belly, etc. I can't really pinpoint when this all changed. Gradually he began the puppy biting where he wanted to bite every second.. in which I gently redirected him to toys. Slowly this puppy biting was diminished but then he started biting when he didn't get his way like on walks. It puzzles me because when he's handled at the vet he does very well, stands nicely and calmly and does not nip or even turn around when he's being handled by the vet. He didn't even flinch during his shots or getting his temperature taken. So I don't know why it's different when he's being handled by someone familiar or when he's getting a coat on. Maybe he doesn't trust me for some reason… but I can't pinpoint why this would be.

[listeme]

@basilboy7:

Okay, where can you find a clicker?

I have picked up several just at the checkout aisle at petsmart or petco. I tend to keep about half dozen around, although these days I can make a pretty decent "fake" sound by clacking my tongue

I love clicker training. It's actually very fun for the humans and the dogs alike.

[basilboy7]

@listeme:

I have picked up several just at the checkout aisle at petsmart or petco. I tend to keep about half dozen around, although these days I can make a pretty decent "fake" sound by clacking my tongue

I love clicker training. It's actually very fun for the humans and the dogs alike.

I'll have to look at a pet store, we don't have petco or petsmart here and I haven't seen them in a pet store but I guess I haven't really been looking.

[eeeefarm]

@basilboy7:

It puzzles me because when he's handled at the vet he does very well, stands nicely and calmly and does not nip or even turn around when he's being handled by the vet. He didn't even flinch during his shots or getting his temperature taken. So I don't know why it's different when he's being handled by someone familiar or when he's getting a coat on. Maybe he doesn't trust me for some reason… but I can't pinpoint why this would be.

When they are at the vet they are not on "home turf", and may feel insecure. In some dogs this results in them being difficult, others will be quite submissive. Seems Basil feels more confident at home, and more sure that he can "get away with" trying to intimidate you. I think this may be more of a "respect" issue than a "trust" issue. You need Basil to respect you, and of course you need to respect him, but he needs to learn not to take liberties or have temper tantrums when he doesn't get his way. I think you need a better behaviourist to assist you, but in the mean time anything that defuses his behaviour is a good thing to work on.

[lvoss]

Most pet stores like PetSmart and Petco carry clickers.

[lvoss]

The thing with handling, is that it isn't really enough to just handle the puppy, it needs to be linked to positive things. Not all dogs like being touched so handling a dog who is not really keen on touch a lot without linking it to a positive association only helps build a negative association. That is the reason for feeding while handling the dog, to build the positive association. Using the "say please by sitting" or NILIF philosophy of asking the dog to earn its life rewards should greatly help with getting the point across that there are rules that need to be followed to get what you want and they are clear and consistent. Getting into training and building your tool box of behaviors so you have different ones you can ask for will greatly help. Continuing work on building positive associations with touch will be important in shaping the dog you want him to be.

[eeeefarm]

I have a breeder friend who has Pyrs. She emphasizes that you must never allow a puppy to go free when it is struggling, only when it is calm. Much like not letting a dog out of a crate until it is quiet. Puppies started this way learn to relax in your arms and allow your touch, because the reward is freedom to play. Done properly, it is a life lesson and results in dogs that are easily handled…..very important when the mature dog weighs more than you do!

[agilebasenji]

Have you tried working through Dr Overall's Relaxation Protocol? (available on line) Otherwise, most of his issues sound like impulse control problems. And for that, I cannot recommend Control Unleashed enough.

[agilebasenji]

Ttouch? (Tellington touch) , yes, spell it with 2 t's when you google. My library has a couple of these books/videos. I think i'd be worth looking into.

[basilboy7]

@agilebasenji:

Ttouch? (Tellington touch) , yes, spell it with 2 t's when you google. My library has a couple of these books/videos. I think i'd be worth looking into.

Is this what they traditional used for calming horses?

Thanks everybody else for your replies, I'll look into everything that you have suggested.

[agilebasenji]

@basilboy7:

Is this what they traditional used for calming horses?

Thanks everybody else for your replies, I'll look into everything that you have suggested.

Yes, I believe Linda Tellington started in horses, but has expanded her methods to all sorts of species, domestic and wild. I don't know for sure this would work, but it just seems like it could be very helpful with your particular issues. Especially if you could find a book/video at your local library. Be sure to check interlibrary loans. If they have it anywhere in their system, you ought to be able to check it out

[Patty]

Be careful to avoid just trying out different methods of training and expecting immediate results - this can just confuse a dog (and its owner!). I personally, am in tune with the method suggested by Ivoss and the philosophy of NILIF. Of course methods can be combined (eg ttouch with hand feeding).

Watch carefully for warnings which may not necessarily be in the form of a growl. I've heard many people say that Basenjis bite without warning but this is not really true although the warnings may be very subtle.

I must say that although my Basenjis are taught to be amenable they do occasionally get over excited when out on the road but i just hold them out of the way until the adrenalin subsides.

In my opinion, you are doing very well with Basil despite your initial bad advice from the trainer. Have you managed to get a Basenji knowledgeable behaviorist yet?

[basilboy7]

@Patty:

Be careful to avoid just trying out different methods of training and expecting immediate results - this can just confuse a dog (and its owner!). I personally, am in tune with the method suggested by Ivoss and the philosophy of NILIF. Of course methods can be combined (eg ttouch with hand feeding).

Watch carefully for warnings which may not necessarily be in the form of a growl. I've heard many people say that Basenjis bite without warning but this is not really true although the warnings may be very subtle.

I must say that although my Basenjis are taught to be amenable they do occasionally get over excited when out on the road but i just hold them out of the way until the adrenalin subsides.

In my opinion, you are doing very well with Basil despite your initial bad advice from the trainer. Have you managed to get a Basenji knowledgeable behaviorist yet?

I haven't found a basenji knowledgeable behaviorist yet. Tomorrow I'm going to phone the Humane Society and ask about trainers though.. I'll remember to ask if they know basenjis.

[basilboy7]

@agilebasenji:

Have you tried working through Dr Overall's Relaxation Protocol? (available on line) Otherwise, most of his issues sound like impulse control problems. And for that, I cannot recommend Control Unleashed enough.

So I just wanted to thank you… x a million. I watched a youtube video on the control unleashed and tried an exercise with Basil off leash in the back yard. I started off by treating him along with a "yup" if he followed right at my side. Then I moved to walking around.. and then stopping and saying "come basil".. when he came to me I treated him and then kept walking again... after a few tries I would call him and only treat when he sat down.. then after a few more I would just stop walking and look to him and he would come running over and anxiously sat down. I started to try the release after by saying "go!" but he doesn't really get it yet but he did great for his first time! It was so much fun to have his attention! Great exercise and it was amazing to see his attention on me. I'm also going to order the book now... thank you so much for your advice!

[agilebasenji]

I'm so happy to hear about your success with the CU stuff. I'm a true CU convert, and I tend to suggest it for everything short of a medical emergency. There is a yahoo CU group. It is a HIGH volume list. You can join and read, but they ask that you do not ask anything until you've read the book (to prevent answering questions that are answered in the book). I think it's so helpful for so many dogs and haven't found too many dogs that it wouldn't help. I have pages in that book with 3 different colored highlighters on it. I found reading the book 2 or 3 times is best. The book seems a bit disjointed on the first read

[Nemo]

@agilebasenji:

I'm so happy to hear about your success with the CU stuff. I'm a true CU convert, and I tend to suggest it for everything short of a medical emergency. There is a yahoo CU group. It is a HIGH volume list. You can join and read, but they ask that you do not ask anything until you've read the book (to prevent answering questions that are answered in the book). I think it's so helpful for so many dogs and haven't found too many dogs that it wouldn't help. I have pages in that book with 3 different colored highlighters on it. I found reading the book 2 or 3 times is best. The book seems a bit disjointed on the first read

+1. Agile converted me to a CU junkie. I highly recommend the yahoo list too. Reading the book got me reasonably far but it is discussed in so much more depth on the list. It helped me understand a lot of things I didn't quite grasp fully from the book. Which I don't feel too bad about because a lot of people had the same questions I did.

Clay