Ah ok cool thanks, I had something like that when Safi was smaller and it was the most successful for sure. She outgrew it quite quickly though
Gender preference
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Again, I thank everybody for their advice. It is nice to know that I am not the only one to ever face this problem. I had already gotten past taking it personally, but we are new dog owners and at first it was hard not to take it personally. I really felt that it was my fault.
I tend to feel that is is not inhumane to use food as a tool for training the dog. No, I wouldn't treat a child that way, but Ella is a dog–not a human. Of course, we would not starve her, but if she misses a meal to make her more amenable to training I certainly will not lose sleep over it. One message I get from the dog experts is do not treat your dog like a child. Ella has a healthy appetite but she seems to be able to take it or leave it at any given time. But we will act on some of those suggestions.
I will definitely look at the body language link. I am certain that is probably one of the reasons many dogs prefer woman. Men just project differently. I am not a large man but I am sure that I am scary to her many times. I have a deep loud voice, I am always doing chores around the house that involve noises and objects that could be scary to her. Although I am careful not to get in her face or push myself on her. It was kind of funny, but yesterday sitting on the couch I apparently picked up the TV remote control a little too quickly and Ella was walking under the glass coffee table and reacted so skittishly fast that she smacked her head on the table. Not the first time it has happened. Too alert for her own good. I just wonder if she will ever get comfortable enough that those kinds of things will not happen.
And I have heard that bitches (females) can be bitchy. She definitely has her moods.
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One thought that just popped in my head…. I don't know how you normally discipline her, but you may want to try using a squirt bottle or water gun as discipline instead of physically pulling her away from things. In theory, that separates the discipline from you. Then she reacts to the bottle, and not a motion that you make.
I think that it is good that you are working with a trainer. Do you have a personal trainer that comes to your house to see how you interact with her? Or is it more of a group class? Also, is your trainer more of a behaviorist or simply a trainer?
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Hi there, this is Miranda, not Jason this time.
I want to tell you that in our house, Roo has a very different relationship with each of us. Roo is definitely crazy about me, and will Baroo for me (sometimes but not as often as he does for the kids…) and play with me, his favorite thing is to sleep in my lap though. With Jason he never ever Baroos (until last night!) He Baroos as a welcome home to me and the kids but not Jason.
With Jason, Roo is very very motivated to do tricks, not as much with me. The pacing, and whining you describe happens here too, when Jason goes out. If he leaves the house Roo paces and whines, scratches the door, etc, until he hears the car start and realizes that Jason isn't coming back in. He will scratch the door when someone else goes out, but none of the anxious behaviors that he exhibits for Jason.
With time, your girl will establish a unique relationship with each of you. That is one of the wonderful things about Basenjis. They are independent thinkers. I think you may not have enough of a feel for Basenji psychology and signalling yet. It is obvious from your posts that your girl is bonded to you, but she doesn't see you as a playmate, she sees you as the boss. Try teaching her some tricks, or obedience commands. I echo what others have said about finding the yummiest treat possible for her to use during these sessions. Freeze dried chicken, or fish is one thing you might try.
Basenji Bonding from the Male perspective:
Miranda and I wanted to give both the female and male bonding experiences from our experience.
First and foremost, I think your Basenji sees both of you, the male and female in your household as pack leaders. Since Basenji's are highly intelligent they do sense that different pack leaders offer different things and relate to them in different ways. It has taken almost a whole year for me to get a Baroo out of Roo when I came home. Ironically that only happened last night. I cannot comment as far as what his behavior has been when I leave him with Miranda but I know Miranda has already covered that is her response in this post.
Roo will cuddle, sit on my lap, wrestle, bring me toys, and retrieve for me. Of course he spends most of his time with me. The best bonding you can do with your dog is to take him on long walks every day. Now that the weather is starting to break this is a good opportunity for you to do this. We walk 3 miles in the morning and 3 miles in the afternoon. Miranda sometimes meets us at the park in the afternoon after work. She is more regular in doing so in the summer. This activity is good for both you and your dog.
If you also take a longer leash to the park, you can switch leashes and let your dog have some running room after his/her walk. I take a 20 foot lead I bought at a dept store and I found that if you just give your dog about 15mins every day to do this after the regular walk it has an impact.
After you do walk your dog this is a great time to train and teach him/her to sit. I take Cheerio's with me as treats. I give Roo and Bonzo(our Boston) Cheerio's after our walk. They have to sit to get them after our walk. I also train Roo to sit, come, and retrieve with Cheerio's. Since I am going to start agility training after he completely recovers from his Neuter, I will most likely use Cheerio's to reward after that.
I noticed you say your dog is not food motivated. That is ok. Maybe since the dog sees you as the main pack leader he/she is a little more tentative about taking a treat from you than from your wife. Keep in mind that in the wild, dogs usually do not take food from the pack leader. They wait until the pack leader is done and walks away from it. Since this puppy was 6 months old when you got him/her, this puppy might have already been in the habit of treating the pack leader different and respecting the hierarchy of the pack, especially if your puppy was keep with several other dogs.
One last thing I would like to mention. Basenji's as well as other dogs are very very smart when it comes to sensing or reading people. If they sense any kind of fear or stand offish behavior about you, they can reciprocate in kind. I am not suggesting you do what I do. I can honestly tell you that even after owning many dogs in my life, I had no idea what kinds of behavior I could really expect from owning a Basenji. There are lots of stories on the web about different ways they can behave, and some include aggressive behavior. You can buy into those types of stories or find out for yourself. A lot of how your dog behaves is related to how you handle him/her and what you expose them to. In my opinion, how much control you have over your dog is directly related to you and your relationship with that dog.
I did have fear of being bitten by Roo's Razor Sharp Puppy Teeth. I do not know if there is anything I have experienced that are sharper than a Basenji's baby teeth. Since Basenji's like to mouth and it can be their way of letting you know they want to play, I think it can often be misinterpreted. People do jerk their hands away because they are not used to this type of behavior, and as a result they get scratched and think the dog has attempted to bite them.
I got over this very quickly by sticking my whole hand in Roo's mouth. In fact it is a practice I continue today. I also can grab Roo anywhere, including yanking on his tail and ears. Roo never attempts to bite me, but does continue the mouthing behavior when he wants attention. We have accepted this mouthing as normal and spent a lot of time when he was a puppy sticking our hands in his mouth and teaching him not to bite.
Once again what works for me may not work for you. I think if you are patient, you will find that your dog is very bonded to you, and happiest when all his/her pack members are present.
Jason
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ComicDom1-Thank you both for your perspectives. I will relate a few more details.
Ella is not a biter at all and we got her after she lost her baby teeth. She will very occasionally nip when she is in a playful mood but that is it. She did bite my wife's butt once while paying in bed. I can honestly say that there is no subtext of fear for her to pick up on. She might be picking up other things that I don't know about, but not fear of biting.
We are working on teaching obedience but that is when it can get frustrating when she won't take treats or is skittish of me. FYI-We have an obedience trainer and would love to see a behaviorist who could come to our home–haven't found one yet. We are teaching SIT right now. I will engage her in the SIT game but sometimes she will sit, see me toss a treat and just ignore it and end the game. Not always, but some of the time and it does not seem to be related to meal times. Sometimes she will sit repeatedly, but across the room from me, not in front of me. When my wife plays the SIT game she has no problem doing the sit right in front of her. My wife spontaneously taught her to lie down in about 5 minutes last night.
You and other folks describe how your Basenji can treat members of the family differently. I think I now get that. My frustration is that I don't get very much of the good stuff. The stuff that you think of when you get a dog. A happy greeting when you come home. Sitting down next to you to be touched. Playing games. I don't really get any of that.
Exercise. I should start a new thread for this but since you mention taking them out for 3 miles a day twice per day I have to ask the question of how much exercise is enough? One of the reasons we got a Basenji is that I too am unhappy if I don't get my exercise and I too am happiest when I am tuckered out. I hike or bike or ski almost every day. The problem is that Ella is so poor on the leash that it is difficult to take her out on my hikes (which are on skis this time of year and really does not work with her on a leash. I took her out on a retractable leash on my cross-country skis several times. This was great because it allowed to really run, but she learned how to twist the small clip on the retractable out of her collar and ran away a few times. Epic adventures getting her back. I can't ski with her on a regular leash so that ended that activity for now. And she is a Houdini that has also backed out of every collar she has ever worn and can only wear a harness that is rubbing her raw). I usually walk her AND then go out and get my exercise. As a result her walks are usually about 30 minutes--three times a day. Occasionally she gets a walk near an hour. She is an incredible puller on the leash. We are working on it with the trainer but it is a long and slow process. We have gone through 4 harnesses and 2 collars and 2 leashes in 3 months. She is over-excited anytime she meets a dog and fearful when she meets most people. She is either pulls at full force or will stop on a dime to sniff and that does not make for a good hike for me. We are working with our trainer on all of these things but I assume it is going to take a while. I look forward to the day I can take her with me on my hikes and then I am confident I can tire her out but I don't see that happening for a while, hopefully summer. Are we killing her zest for life my taking her out three times a day for about 30 minutes?
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I will leave the issues of exercise, collars, and loose leash walking for a different thread but would really like to recommend the book and DVD On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals, by Turid Rugaas, http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=A251
Another great dog language DVD is The Language of Dogs by Sarah Kalnajs, http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB875P
Both are great because you get visuals to see the dogs giving these signals so you can learn to read your dog better and get ideas about how you can interact better.
As for the treat thing, I think you are going to have to work to find what treats you dog finds high value. Each of my dogs values food differently. Rally and Sophie are the easiest, working for kibbles of Evo is just fine with them. Nicky and Rio on the other hand can be more choosy. For most things cheese is a high value treat and my dogs will happily work for it. In highly distracting situations or for tasks that they find more challenging, they will sometimes not work for cheese and I have to up the ante. Some of the high value treats in my house include lamb or beef lung, freeze dried chicken hearts, and freeze dried green tripe (this stuff really stinks so I only use it on very rare occasions). I usually keep a variety of treats on hand so that they don't get bored with any one type but also so they aren't sure if the next treat is going to be that really super yummy one or a just sort of okay one.
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Oh, and I forgot to add that refusal to take food can also be a stress signal. When we are working on a new behavior in training class, I can usually gauge when we are trying to do too much when my dogs start refusing food.
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Have you used a 3/4 inch Martingale Collar? I have been walking Roo 3 miles in the morning and 3 miles in the afternoon since he was about 3 months old. Do not worry, your dog most likely can take it. I would start with a 3 mile walk which is a little under an hour if you are in shape, and little longer if you stop everytime the dog wants to. Trust me, 3 miles is a good start once a day and you will see significant change. What we do notice is that when our dog is extremely tired, Roo will do anything to stay awake. That is when he really wants to play and sometimes it can be pretty agressively. Normally what I do at that time is ignore him until he is calm, get him to sit, and then I pick him up. Once I or Miranda have done that, we rub his ears, actually most dogs love that, and he falls right to sleep. Of course your dog might be a little different. We just walked Roo 3 miles out in the park and he is crashed out right now. In fact after we made it up to 6 miles a day he was a very relaxed and happy pooch. I did push it to 8 miles a day, 4 miles in the morning and 4 in the afternoon but that was actually almost too much for me, but Roo was fine. The increase in the walking time did made him more tired. I think you will notice after you get your first 2 miles in(about 21mins a mile for a beginner) you will find that your dog pulls less. It make take several days of walking this distance before you notice the actual effect it has on your dog.
Here is my view about leashes. We do not use a retractable leash when we are walking. We use a nice heavy 4 or 5 foot leash that I can wrap around my hand. Normally I am walking both the Basenji and Boston until the weather gets too hot for the Boston to go. I also found a very short Nylon Leash, about 24 inches or 2 feet long that I use at times when I walk. If you are having trouble with pulling, the short leash will give you better control over the dog. Do not be afraid to take charge when walking. I normally give my dog his time to poop and pee in the beginning of our walk, and then I set the pace. Before its over, Roo is in the heel position and walking nicely. When he was a puppy, he would try to play with the slackness in the leash and carry in his mouth as we walked. By the way I lost 26lbs last year walking Roo in the park.
Since you mentioned you love biking. I have another thread where I bought a Bike trailer for Roo when the gas prices got so high. Its called a Burley Tail Wagon. Roo can be short leashed into it and loves to ride in it behind my Recumbent bicycle on the way to the park. Its about a 6 mile bike to the park but we make it just fine. Actually Bonzo can ride inside it with him because there is a divider. We normally travel about 12 miles an hour when riding together and Roo is happy he can see out when we travel.
I would encourage you to try Cheerio's. Even stale, both my dogs go crazy for them. Maybe we are just lucky but who knows. Roo is a chow hound. We feed both Roo and Bonzo a Mixture of Evo Red Meat and Taste of the Wild Fish Based Salmon. I do believe the food you feed does affect your dog, but that is my personal belief. We do not over treat either. At this point, since we have been treating with Cheerio's starting at 3 months we have been able to back off or not treat at all and Roo responds nicely to commands.
Even if you get a trainer, in the end the dog has to respond to you not the trainer. So it is in your best interest, to work with your dog, at least 15 mins twice a day to get him/her to respond to you. If your dog sits offer a treat. Do not throw it on the ground. Make sure you are hand feeding those treats. Also when you feed your dog, run your hands through the food if you can and get your scent on the food as well.
These things have worked very well for us. I am not saying our dog is perfect and does not misbehave. I do know I can hold a cheerio in my hand at my nose and have Roo sit and tell him to watch. Roo will sit and follow that Cheerio side to side as I move my hand. I am doing this in preparation for his agility training. Since Basenji's seem to get distracted very easily, I have a strong need to train him so I have his attention when I want it. While it does not work all of the time, it works most of the time.
I also have a white plastic bag tied to a fishing pole with weights inside it so I can cast it. I can put Roo on his tie out leash and then cast this in the yard and he will chase it back and forth. I am doing this with the hope it will get him ready for coursing. He seems to love playing like this and will chase the bag back and forth.
I do hope some of the things I do help you or someone else.
Jason
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bcraig, thanks for the post. I've enjoyed reading the informative Q & A here.
My dogs also have different relationships with my husband and myself (I've mentioned it in another thread–I think--so I won't go into it here). That said I also have to state that those are fickle relationships and they seem to change on a whim.
One week, I'm the favored 'parent' getting all the cuddles, wags, rooo's and good behavior and the DH gets the poor behavior. On any given day I can become the disciplinarian trying to reconstruct pack order and the DH gets all the cuddles, wags, and roo's.
tar9091....(PPOV).... yes it's true, I sometimes treat my dogs as my children (that's not a bad thing IMHO) but I have never treated my child "like a dog". The phraseology of that statement ("like a dog") clearly comes from people that treat their 4-legged family members in a harsh or abusive manner.
That said, my dogs are food motivated, and have been trained in a reward only system using the most effective positive reinforcement method I had at hand–FOOD--. Had my child been food motivated, I might have also used favorite foods or snacks with her to modify behaviors. Luckily, that was not the case. Instead I, like many, withheld technology...TV, cell phone, computer access, etc to change undesirable behaviors. Not a total cut off of resources, just positive reinforcement for positive behaviors.
I hate to mix apples with oranges (kids/dogs..food/technology), but that's what I came away with from your post so I felt I needed to respond.
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Even if you get a trainer, in the end the dog has to respond to you not the trainer. So it is in your best interest, to work with your dog, at least 15 mins twice a day to get him/her to respond to you.
I agree in my opinion, the best trainer is one that teaches you how to train your dog, and doesn't train it for you. That's especially important with the extremely smart Basenji.
bcraig, you are doing lots of things right. It's often difficult when you bring home a dog with an "issue." She is obviously making process. When you get frustrated just look back at how far you've already come. Don't lose perspective.
My B isn't very food motivated either, except for his favorite treat (Nutro Natural Choice Treats, the stick ones). Once we found his favorite treat (which took a few months) I was able to teach him several tricks. We had several hurdles to get over ourselves, such as discovering his allergy to food dyes and milk, and his refusal to lay on hard floors. We have all hard floors, so it was very frustrating not being able to get him to lay down. I used all of the training tricks I knew of… finally... I started training on the living room rug instead of the kitchen floor, and ta-da, he started laying down on command! Morale of the story... persistence and experimentation pays off. I swear, to make progress with Basenjis you have to be as versatile
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I agree in my opinion, the best trainer is one that teaches you how to train your dog, and doesn't train it for you. That's especially important with the extremely smart Basenji.
bcraig, you are doing lots of things right. It's often difficult when you bring home a dog with an "issue." She is obviously making process. When you get frustrated just look back at how far you've already come. Don't lose perspective.
My B isn't very food motivated either, except for his favorite treat (Nutro Natural Choice Treats, the stick ones). Once we found his favorite treat (which took a few months) I was able to teach him several tricks. We had several hurdles to get over ourselves, such as discovering his allergy to food dyes and milk, and his refusal to lay on hard floors. We have all hard floors, so it was very frustrating not being able to get him to lay down. I used all of the training tricks I knew of… finally... I started training on the living room rug instead of the kitchen floor, and ta-da, he started laying down on command! Morale of the story... persistence and experimentation pays off. I swear, to make progress with Basenjis you have to be as versatile
Good post Mucky. Yep if you own a Basenji or for that matter any other kind of dog it pays to be versatile. Every dog has their likes and dislikes. My Basenji does not like cold floors either. I demonstrated that when we took Roo to a friends house a couple of weeks ago in Indiana and when he normally would sit and lay down, he did not want to completely cooperate. Instead of getting frustrated and confused, I took a moment to move him off the cold kitchen floor to the warm carpet in front of their fireplace, and Presto, he would sit and lay down without a problem. I think it always pays to think outside the box.
Jason
Jason
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bcraig…Speaking of biking, the thread in the link below has a post from "billyk" that gives the method that I use to run my girl, Ruby, using my road bike.
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=1135Works great. I haven't gone since I injured my back, but I've gone about 4 - 6 miles with Ruby running about a 14mph pace. I have no doubt she could go longer than that…much longer, but I'd only do that at a slower pace. I gauge the speed based on if she is pulling ahead or behind and found that for her about 14mph was the right speed...I've been up to 16mph in spurts when she is really ripping. In fact, I've gone up a pretty big hill with her running about 11mph (faster than I would have normally gone...let's put it this way, I'm sure I was over my anaerobic threshold :D). Ruby LOVES the bike...I only run her early in the morning when it is cool, but I know she's tired when we're done :D. I've never tried 2 like Billy did, but this summer I'm going to try it with Brando as well.
Not sure if you road bike or mountain bike, but thought if you hadn't seen that old post you might be interested. There are other threads on here as well if you do a search that talk about biking.
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You can also use a "Walkydog" which is similar to the Springer, and slightly cheaper. They have been fully Basenji tested and have some good results. lol
I would be wary about just using a leash at the seat. I got a nasty concussion as a kid from biking my golden. But then again I had the leash either in hand or on the handlebars. That's how I got to know some of the neighbors. lol I remember waking up at the hospital in the scanning machine. (I think??)
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I would be wary about just using a leash at the seat. I got a nasty concussion as a kid from biking my golden. But then again I had the leash either in hand or on the handlebars. That's how I got to know some of the neighbors. lol I remember waking up at the hospital in the scanning machine. (I think??)
Yeah, the leash in hand definitely doesn't work. I tried it figuring, hey, I am really good on a bike, shouldn't be a problem. WRONG. Definitely didn't work holding the leash as it affects your balance and steering too much and the dog can get near the front wheel and even in front of the wheel. The thing about having the leash on the seatpost that works so well is that is where your center of gravity is…so it doesn't affect balance at all, plus you can have both hand on the handlebars for steering. The other part is that the dog can't get to either wheel and if for some reason you need to get a hold of the dog, the leash is right there.
So Kelli's post is a good point because I think for people that are good on bikes, the method with the seatpost works flawlessly. But if you aren't so sure of yourself on a bike, maybe use the attachments that Kelli suggested and that are mentioned in the other thread.
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Everyone offered wonderful advice in training so I'm not going to add anything there it would just be a broken record LOL But I would like to add about a great harness and also the Walky Dog, bcraig you said her harness rubs her raw, I really suggest using the RuffWear Webmaster Harness these are designed for sport activities and such and have padding and are also made so they can't be slipped, conventional harnesses can be slipped as easy as a regular collar.
I googled Walky Dog and basenji and found this review and it also linked back to the Walky Dog site
http://epettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39295&highlight=walkydogI have a mutt and I use the the walky dog and the ruffwear harness together and they work great I love them. I really love the Ruffwear products and use all of there products from collars, back packs, harnesses, and coats
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Something else I had thought about for those who bike/blade often is a harness made by weight pull harness companies. They are a little wider and padded to help reduce pressure, especially if your dog likes to pull you most of the time. lol
Here are a couple examples:
http://www.weightpullharness.com/WalkingRunningHarnesses.html
http://www.itsmysite.com/cgi-bin/itsmy/go.exe?page=2&domain=1&webdir=cdpits
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I talked to a friend today that rides her horse while walking her dogs (all mixed breed rescues) and she uses old girth covers over the areas that rub on her walking harnesses. This sounded like a good quick fix for a harness you already own, plus the girth covers slip on and off easily and wash well. Easy to cut down to the proper size as well.
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That's a nice idea for a quick fix. I never really thought about adding something like that. On that subject, I bet the halter fleece tubes are probably a perfect size for slipping over a Basenji harness. Also if anyone is able to sew a bit, you could get a yard of fleece from the store and just sew your own slip over tubes.
I am definitely not the crafty type though! lol
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kiroja, I never thought of the halter fleece. That would be a better fit in some cases.
Store bought fleece is a great idea. I'd look for the more expensive, natural fleece or a tight fleece synthetic with a good backing. It'd still be cheaper than the alternatives on the market (and, as said before, easily washable)
