Why? Nip & Brawl

[Duke]

Maybe I haven't read the book on this, but as my two are going at it - again - for the zillionth time . . . Why do they do it? I think they enjoy it, and sometimes they sound like they want to kill each other. Do you think it's a game? They seem to have to do this every morning - after potty - after eating - and just because. They'll stop & get a drink together (best friends) then pick up where they left off. I see sometimes it starts over a chewy, buy why sometimes for nothing? I'm baffled with the behavior.

[Quercus]

That *sounds like play….but hard to know without seeing. Querk makes horrible sounding playing noises...and then he gets so carried away with teasing the girls (by biting their butts) that then they roar right back at him...but in the end, there are no hard feelings.

Ariel is going thru some stuff with the highest status bitch in each group (Ivy and Bella) Right now she can run with both groups. But she is very possesive over nylabones (of all things!) and she WILL NOT back down to the older dogs. There are occasional shouting matches, where I intervene by stepping between them, and talking calmly, and then they are fine...but it DOES worry me.

In your situation, between one mature male, and one immature female, I wouldn't worry much. The males love to taunt the girls, and the girls love to bitch at the boys...how do you think they got the name I would guess they are just sorting out who is in charge of what...in the end, Daisy will probably be in charge of everything

She is ADORABLE, by the way! We need to see more pics! Have you heard how the other pups and mom are doing?

[Duke]

Thank you Andrea! She is real sweet and cuddly to people. I posted some pics today in the Members Gallery.

LisaM & WandaP at BCOSW are keeping good tabs on Abby's pups. They will do an update on the website soon as they get pics from all the puppy owners. They have Daisy's pics & info. I have one pic of the red & white girl who's new name is Lucy. I will add to the Show Off thread soon. Lisa told me that all of the pups have Basenji ears and tails. Lucy looks most Basenji of them all. Daisy doesn't bark though, normally very quiet except with bursts of growls during the brawls. Duke is THE loudest. Daisy has a dainty sound - her vocals are way unlike Duke's loud schrieking bark.:eek:

During the brawls, Duke will mouth her whole neck. Sometimes drag Daisy by her collar, nip ears, legs, pull her cheeks. She's a tough one who goes back for more. She nips him wherever she can. Sometimes Daisy yipes (ow!). Sometimes she's provokes Duke. Maybe she will be the boss, but Duke isn't going to let that happen easily. Will try not to worry and try to "calmly" interrupt when they get out of hand. My knee-jerk reaction is the shout "CUT IT!" So atleast they hear and watch me. Sometimes I'll take one of them outside alone.

Sounds like Ariel is holding her ground pretty good. Interesting about the nylabones - Ariel not backing down. Daisy won't back down while brawling with Duke either. Except when Daisy gets a toy in her mouth, Duke walks over and takes it from her. When I see him do it, I tell Duke to "leave it". He does - begrudgingly. (rather a chewy than a shoe) Ohhh so it goes . . .

[tanza]

Typically bitches do rule the house… they might let the boys think they do, but in reality, girls rule.... Mouthing the neck is normal.... along with the other things you describe... and sounds like they will work it out, OK... and yes the noise can be unreal....gggg
It is really a good thing if Daisy will let him take a toy... that is a good sign that she and he have a pretty good relationship....

[lvoss]

I agree with Andrea that it is difficult to tell from just writing exactly what is going on. Mine play hard and rough. Rio is becoming less scabby around her neck as Sophie learns better bite control but they both nip and bite in play with each other. I would say at least once a day they have a really good wrestling match that occasionally expands into a 4 way free for all as the older two adults join in. Mine are not very vocal in their play usually and have various levels of play. I will see if I can get some video and figure out how to post it.

[jys1011]

Typically bitches do rule the house… they might let the boys think they do, but in reality, girls rule.... Mouthing the neck is normal.... along with the other things you describe... and sounds like they will work it out, OK... and yes the noise can be unreal....gggg
It is really a good thing if Daisy will let him take a toy... that is a good sign that she and he have a pretty good relationship...

We have plenty of these same exact incidents here. The sounds are much more unnerving then they intend to be. So long as they don't hurt each other I don't get involved.

[Quercus]

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I agree, Pat. And I never interfere with a dog taking a toy from another, unless it looks like it is going to evolve into a fight. I think you can do a lot more harm by trying to *make them "play nice" than just letting them sort things out on their own. Of course, only when we are talking about both dogs being okay with their method of "sharing"

[tanza]

Exactly Andrea…. most times if you are around enough Basenjis, you can pick up pretty quickly when that is going to be a problem at a later date... and you can pick up on what is normal play.. and what is not... One thing that I learned about fights... it is when they get quiet.. and and are fighting that there is big trouble..... Once you have a "want to be" in the group chances are pretty slim to none that they would ever really get alone...

[jys1011]

Ditto Pat- If it gets quiet & the stares begin darting back & forth then I know there will be trouble :eek: SO as long as there is noise then I know it's ok and they're working it out.

[Duke]

I would guess they are just sorting out who is in charge of what…

So to answer the "Why" question, the nipping and brawling is about who's in charge? GEESH! They have a short memory. Because it has to be sorted out over and over and . . . Haha!! :rolleyes: Will this go on until one day Daisy is big enough to wrap her jaws around Dukes neck? It is unnerving to sit back and watch the assaults. Dog speak - I guess. I'll let them be best I can but sometimes, I can't take it when the sounds escalate for too long.

If it gets quiet & the stares begin darting back & forth then I know there will be trouble :eek:

I've seen this happen twice. :eek: :eek: Then it's over. Don't know who won. A few minutes ago, Daisy on sofa staring down at Duke - Duke turned away. Is that submission?

For the record, they do play games I call tag and hide & seek. Doing the B500, one runs after the other and tags the front dog. Then they switch directiions running till they tag again and so on. When they play hide & seek, one chases the other and the other stops short in another room till found and the chase is on again til (usually Daisy) finds a spot and waits till Duke comes around the corner and finds her. These games are so fun to watch. It's what I call play-play. The price of this enjoyment is that our lamps are now all unplugged b/c they have been knocked over. One is now broken. :eek: (I plan to buy all new furniture, when Daisy is older. Do you think next year would be OK?) :o

Also, Daisy doesn't always mind Duke taking her chewy's. Maybe she'll tolerate it some of the time and find something else. When she doesn't tolerate it, brawling game is on - again.

Thanks for all your input. This is the first time I've had more than one dog, young ones at that! :eek: Except I grew up with Pomeranian pairs. All they wanted were biscuits and a lap. Nothing like my two warriors.

[Quercus]

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[tanza]

Hey, I have done many a "Knock it off" and "SHUT UP"… (or worse..ggg).... happens to the best of us...
Of course mine look at me with disgust... and then continue on with exactly what they were doing...

[lvoss]

This is my first attempt at posting a link to a video, hopefully it works. This is Sophie and Rio playing yesterday.

http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w168/lrvoss/?action=view¤t=RioandSophiePlaying.flv

[lvoss]

While I was making the other movie, Nicky decided he would start a wrestling match so I decided to to make another movie.

http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w168/lrvoss/?action=view¤t=NickyandSophieJoinForces.flv

[Quercus]

Cool! yes, that looks like pretty typical play…it can get more rambunctious at times, and louder...but that is a good example...

and is that Sally Jesse on the TV, or Judge Judy

[lvoss]

I think the movie from yesterday is Judge Judy and the movie today has NCIS.

[tanza]

Great Video Lisa….. and yes that is so typical of play.... and I love that Rally was at the other end of the bed... with that "I am so way above all that!"... attitude!!!!

[Duke]

@lvoss:

This is my first attempt at posting a link to a video, hopefully it works. This is Sophie and Rio playing yesterday.

Thanks Lisa - These videos look typical of Duke & Daisy too. Except of course when there's real cause for concern - you know, the turn for the worse. I am attempting to upload a short video from my camera - so you can see my two going at it like yours. Haven't done it b4 either - so maybe it'll work. (don't know when I'll be done)

[Duke]

This is my first attempt at doing a video - Yesterday after work, as usual Duke & Daisy were doing their thing. At the end of the video - they must have hurt themselves locking teeth b/c they're licking nose & mouths.

This video is quiet & mild. Not the growly kind of fight.

http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/dukerspooker/?action=view¤t=NipBrawlFirst.flv

[Quercus]

Very cool! So, that is the usual? Or is there more noise usually? That was all play.

So….do you have a digital video camera? Or is that a feature on your regular digi cam? I will have to do this....I could make a video of Querk screaming his head off for y'all.