@Saving thank you very much for the suggestions!
Bladder stand-off
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combined post!
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Sometimes you just have to figure out what works, at least in the short term. Would ten minutes around the block walk get the required results? If so, I would just make that work until conditions are right to really deal with the problem. (If it's entirely up to you, get up ten minutes earlier if need be! Roust her out of bed at 4 a.m. if that's what it takes!) Dogs don't think like we do, even Basenjis. It will not occur to her that she is uncomfortable because she didn't comply with your wishes. She will just decide it isn't worth "holding it" and being uncomfortable, and oops, there goes your house training. This is one issue that simply isn't worth trying to "out stubborn" her on. Best to finesse it as well as you can, and you may be pleasantly surprised when the problem goes away all by itself.
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Sometimes you just have to figure out what works, at least in the short term. Would ten minutes around the block walk get the required results? If so, I would just make that work until conditions are right to really deal with the problem.
Well, when conditions are right, what would you do? I definitely see the logic in just sucking it up, etc., and early on I was just getting up at 3:30 and running her regardless. But this isn't the safest of areas, and it occurred to me on a stormy pre-dawn that should something scary happen, let's just say she is not the kind of dog whose company wards off danger. I never, ever, EVER worried about going for a jog at night with my dogo. This is also the kind of area where people still let their dogs run around loose at night. One of the last times I went on a pre-dawn run with my dogo, we came around a corner and face-to-face with a trailer-park pack of southern yard scrappers that IMMEDIATELY came after us, en masse. Now, I'm not afraid of much, but that was kind of hair-raising.
Up til now, if I didn't feel comfortable, or able, to take her on an outside romp, we could pee in the yard and then do relay games or something in the house for exercise. And what if we're in a hotel and there's one tiny patch of outside she can use? Though it does seem to make sense that maybe if it's a non-issue where she pees, at the moment I really need her to pee where we are, it won't be an issue.
I'm concerned that I could, say, get her to pee in the front yard, then she'd hold it until we went around the block, then she would hold it until she got a half-mile out, etc. That she'll learn that the longer she holds it, the more of a romp she gets.
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I'm concerned that I could, say, get her to pee in the front yard, then she'd hold it until we went around the block, then she would hold it until she got a half-mile out, etc. That she'll learn that the longer she holds it, the more of a romp she gets.
That can definitely be a problem. Best strategy is not to immediately turn around and go home. Yes, you are in a hurry, but go at least a short distance further, and make something else your signal that it is time to head back. e.g. you are walking slowly, you say excitedly "let's go!!" and you jog or run back home, making it as exciting a prospect as possible. If she enjoys this, it could work into being her reward for the pee, but don't get ahead of yourself.
As far as safety is concerned, I don't know how to address that. In my neighbourhood I wouldn't worry, but in any case, being very aware of your surroundings is always the best defense. If you see something you don't like, you could perhaps call out to an invisible companion. Or start talking to yourself like a crazy person.
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Well, I mean, safety-wise, I am aware, and capable, and do have weapons and can act like a nut, but I very, very, VERY much prefer to avoid any kind of confrontation in the first place. A lady with a big, bad (looking) dog doesn't invite human approach, and we were able to stand-down the yard scrapper pack. Scout would not have worked with me that way, she would either have launched herself at them, or attempted to exit stage left at top speed, and I wouldn't have been fast enough to run.
And it's not that I think something IS likely to happen, really, but I'm just really aware of what scenarios invite it, and putting myself out in dark places or being on foot where I know there are sketchy, loose dogs just doesn't seem prudent, even if I feel fairly capable of dealing with those kinds of threats. This is a poor, rural area with a higher crime rate than I'd like. There aren't always working street lights and there are lots of abandoned houses, long stretches of jungle-y thickets between sketchy apartment complexes, dodgy trailer parks, etc. I don't worry in daylight hours because there are people around, but I'd rather not be out in the dark when the meth heads, yard dogs, and skunks are ;0).
@eeeefarm:That can definitely be a problem. Best strategy is not to immediately turn around and go home.
Unless it's the actual middle of the night, there's always at least a small romp post-potty.
Update:
Just took her out for this hour's break, and took your suggestion about the short run. We circled the front yard and neighboring property twice, and she peed out on the far side of the neighboring property, so we had a puppy party and took a run around a couple blocks. What I'd like to communicate is that the faster she pees, nearer the house, the longer/more fun workout we can have, but clearly I'm not imparting that idea in a way that's clicking with her. If she pees right away, we can pack up in the car and go somewhere fun for a real workout. If she spends twenty five minutes not peeing and then reluctantly peeing in the neighbor's yard, we only have time for a two-block circle jog. -
Yeah, I wouldn't want to have to deal with that scenario either. Is there anyone else in your home that can take her out after daylight in the event that you must leave early? Just a very short walk to give her the opportunity to relieve herself?
On occasion I have to take off well before dawn, and rather than disturb my sleeping dog and husband, I hire a dog walker to show up a bit later to give Perry his morning constitutional. As this isn't a regular issue, it's a relatively cheap & easy solution. (Perry will pee readily enough in the backyard, but pooping is another matter!)
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Well, my husband can manage it if necessary, I'm just more frustrated about not building a reliable elimination routine. I'd like to be able to start doing real work with her at some point, and if she's unreliably housetrained, there will be many places she's not welcome, one of which is in my car.
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Hopefully this is just a passing phase, and as she matures she will grow out of it. I do think that putting too much emphasis on something she is resisting can lead to difficulties, particularly as it isn't something you can control. A bit like pushing too hard when toilet training kids.
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I'm sure you're right; whatever the reason, she does not understand why I want her to pee in the yard. I'm no fan of arbitrary rules myself, so… I figure that most times she is getting a workout in the morning. If she refuses to pee on a short relief walk once in a while and has to hold it in her crate for a few hours, well, I guess we all have to learn to live with our choices ;0).
I do hope the car peeing thing was a passing experiment. Otherwise she won't be traveling uncrated, and it's too damn hot and muggy here to ride in a crate half the year. -
I do hope the car peeing thing was a passing experiment. Otherwise she won't be traveling uncrated, and it's too damn hot and muggy here to ride in a crate half the year.
I think this is one where you could adjust your behaviour to hers. If she has peed before the car ride, no crate. If she hasn't…...well, why take chances? (some always crate their dogs for transport, and it can be safer, if less comfortable, for the dog. My guy rides in a "hammock" strung between the front and back seats, and seems to like that just fine.)
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That's exactly what I mean. If I'd like to take her somewhere and she's refused to pee that morning, either she rides in a crate, if it's cool enough, or she doesn't go if it's not. If she relieves herself, she can be belted in when it's too warm for a crate, but I won't give her the opportunity to pee on the seat again if she's being stubborn on the ten minute pre-ride pee-run.
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What's funny is that most people assume if you have a male, you just take him to the nearest tree. That theory simply didn't work with my first boy…...he was the one that inspired my haiku.......he could hold out as well as any girl if he wasn't "in the mood". My current boy is no problem most of the time, but he does have his moments! Basenjis can out stubborn most breeds I have worked with, and it seems it is usually about elimination issues. At least with poop you have a shot at inducing the behaviour you are looking for, but not so much with pee!
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She is definitely an adventure. We just played some training games for dinner and she modified the "stick 'em up!" into walking on her hinds and waving both paws like she's directing traffic ;0). This is where I start thinking about teaching her how to use that to close doors, and my husband wonders WTF I'm doing teaching the basenji to open and close doors ;09
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my husband wonders WTF I'm doing teaching the basenji to open and close doors ;09
You do have to be careful of unintended consequences, for instance, teaching a cat to flush the toilet can result in rather high water bills! A friend has a GSD who is self taught to open doors, which means there is no place in the house that she cannot go! Fortunately she has yet to master locks…....
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I did wonder if I could teach her to use a toilet. I even thought about getting a toilet lid and cutting an outhouse hole in the middle, so she'd have a better platform. But since I can't even get her to pee in the yard… ;0)
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Ours can be pretty obstinate about peeing as well. We brought treats to give to them when they went and then we would shake the can a bit to let them know we had them. Eventually they started associating the sound from that to peeing. Once we realized that, we started doing it right as they peed and it worked even better.
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How about if you try really upping her fluids to force her to pee? With no-sodium chicken or beef broth.
Then have some yummy treat in your pocket when she HAS to go. Or, can you put up a temporary kennel and let her loose in it to pee? Or hell, get an indoor potty pad..
http://smile.amazon.com/UGODOG-Indoor-Dog-Potty/dp/B00152R5YQ/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1408120822&sr=8-6&keywords=dog+indoor+pottyI hope you get it figured out. At least with Cara it is only if ground is wet.
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All good suggestions! We use the "elimination on command" stuff, so from day one she had a specific potty word, praise and treats for peeing. She is food-motivated, but only to a point. That first 27-hour standoff, she didn't get fed from the day before because she hadn't peed yet, and nothing good happens until everyone's had a morning pee. I tried offering every kind of treat, including her actual prey-model-raw meal, and she was more insistent on leaving the yard than eating.
I am curious about how upping her fluids would change things. She really drinks very little during the day, by choice. Maybe I'm just used to a dog with a less-efficient water-consumption protocol, and she really doesn't need to pee as much as I think she should. ;0)
She's had four days on the Cipro, it would be handy if it's just a bladder infection and we see some changes from that! -
All good suggestions! We use the "elimination on command" stuff, so from day one she had a specific potty word, praise and treats for peeing. She is food-motivated, but only to a point. That first 27-hour standoff, she didn't get fed from the day before because she hadn't peed yet, and nothing good happens until everyone's had a morning pee. I tried offering every kind of treat, including her actual prey-model-raw meal, and she was more insistent on leaving the yard than eating.
I am curious about how upping her fluids would change things. She really drinks very little during the day, by choice. Maybe I'm just used to a dog with a less-efficient water-consumption protocol, and she really doesn't need to pee as much as I think she should. ;0)
She's had four days on the Cipro, it would be handy if it's just a bladder infection and we see some changes from that!I just read this last post and if you are feeding her raw (as I do), then her urine output is a little less than the norm because the raw food is moist and our pooches (esp B's) don't drink as much. Though, you said she exercises a lot and since I also share the humidity factor like you, the fluid intake should make her bladder full. Take mental notes of when you feed, when she drinks, when she pees and you'll get in a rhythm. Like eeeeefarm mentioned, just don't push the issue, adjust to her 'pee schedule' and make it yours via commands, the crate etc. She can sense your frustration and it only adds to her not wanting to go in that backyard area….This definitely is one of those scenarios where digging for patience is needed! Give it time......continue to work with her as you want and it will get better!
