Help Needed With Self Stacking, pleeeeeease…

[saba]

Thanks r those links. It certainly seems as if 1 of the products is preferred over the other :).

My hubby is very handy with carpentry jobs. I think he might have a new job to do this weekend :D… They look quits easy to put together. Thanks for the links though, it gives us a good look at how they were made...

[kiroja]

Yes, if you have someone mechanically inclined, it would be much cheaper to make your own! lol

[saba]

Hubby just looked at them, and he says he can probably make them, for a fraction of the charges, especially as we need to get them sent to Aus as well :).

Suggested to him that he could make them, take them to shows, sell them for a motza, and retire from his day job ;).

Ochre has just had her first lesson, doing exactly what you said Kiroja, and Im sure if I can get my hands to work properly, we will have this done in no time :D. I think its my clumsiness that will hold her back… Trying to hold the lead, pull the lead out, side to side, watching where her feet were going, etc, etc..........................Oh dear........ I never was blessed with great co-ordination skills o:o... Im just hope that she can see what Im trying to do, and catch on quickly !!! One can only hope !!!

[Maya]

Im just teaching Maya this at the moment. My two other breeds (pugs and labs) both are "free standing" dogs when shown over here so you dont touch their legs at all. They must be taught to stack themselves on command. I actually have never had too much trouble teaching it. I just say whatever word i want to be the stacking command (i just use "stand") as i place their feet where i want them, and then lots of praise and a treat and pretty soon they will do it on command without me placing them at all. What takes the time is getting them to stand 4-square on command, but that is just practice

Maya is picking it up pretty quickly. She will stand still when i tell her to, im just now starting to get her to stretch herself out and stand 4-square when i tell her to stand. I wouldnt expect a puppy to have perfected that by the time they are in the ring (6 months here), but by the time they are about 12 months they seem to have it down pretty well

[renaultf1]

@saba:

Hubby just looked at them, and he says he can probably make them, for a fraction of the charges, especially as we need to get them sent to Aus as well :).

Suggested to him that he could make them, take them to shows, sell them for a motza, and retire from his day job ;).

Ochre has just had her first lesson, doing exactly what you said Kiroja, and Im sure if I can get my hands to work properly, we will have this done in no time :D. I think its my clumsiness that will hold her back… Trying to hold the lead, pull the lead out, side to side, watching where her feet were going, etc, etc..........................Oh dear........ I never was blessed with great co-ordination skills o:o... Im just hope that she can see what Im trying to do, and catch on quickly !!! One can only hope !!!

Hey Saba, I just got a set of Happy Legs that a friend of a friend made for me out of cherry wood. The nice thing about your hubby doing it it can be made of really nice wood…and a lot cheaper than anything I could find online! :D:D

[saba]

Thanks for the reply Maya…

So to teach your guys, Pugs, Labs or B's, do you do what Kiroja does, or something different ??? It makes perfect sense, now it has been explained to me :). Im hoping that by 12 months she would be doing it quite reliably too !!!

I use the word "stand" when I put her on the table, so she knows that I want her to be still and allow me to place her feet. I thought I would use the word "stack", but it sounds too similar to stand, so I will go to bed soon, dreaming of a word to use for her :D. Geez I think I need to get a life !!!

Hey renaultf1, I agree with you. I think Hubby will make me some, done to my specification, to suit the B's and the ACD's, in beautiful Huon Pine, with our prefix on it just like the Staxrite ones are doing now... BEAUTIFUL :).

[Maya]

Well, i personally would never use the stilt things as i dont agree with them. I try to make everything a game for my pups in training and i dont like the idea of them being forced to stand still for fear of falling.

But the second bit about pulling left/right to square them up i do once they are used to what "stand" means. But yeah, just lots of practice. With maya i do it on walks just ask her to stand for a treat, move the treat slightly forward if i want to stretch her out a bit more. It is probably a longer process than the stilts but it's always worked for me

[basi]

@Maya:

Well, i personally would never use the stilt things as i dont agree with them. I try to make everything a game for my pups in training and i dont like the idea of them being forced to stand still for fear of falling.

But the second bit about pulling left/right to square them up i do once they are used to what "stand" means. But yeah, just lots of practice. With maya i do it on walks just ask her to stand for a treat, move the treat slightly forward if i want to stretch her out a bit more. It is probably a longer process than the stilts but it's always worked for me

Phew I'm glad i am not the only one that doesn't like these contraptions. I do the same as you Jessica yes it does take longer but much kinder on the dog.

[Maya]

@basi:

Phew I'm glad i am not the only one that doesn't like these contraptions. I do the same as you Jessica yes it does take longer but much kinder on the dog.

The way i look at it, i do showing as a hobby for fun, the dogs should find it fun too! Might mean she wont stand perfectly square and perfectly still everytime, but better than than just being programmed to do it like a robot! :rolleyes:

Each to their own and everything and i wouldn't criticise someone for using it, especially as i know its a very common thing in countries like America, but i just prefer to spend a little longer and not have the pup having any fear and stress during training

[basi]

@Maya:

The way i look at it, i do showing as a hobby for fun, the dogs should find it fun too! Might mean she wont stand perfectly square and perfectly still everytime, but better than than just being programmed to do it like a robot! :rolleyes:

Each to their own and everything and i wouldn't criticise someone for using it, especially as i know its a very common thing in countries like America, but i just prefer to spend a little longer and not have the pup having any fear and stress during training

I agree, not having ago at anyone as I know this is a common thing in the states but just not used in the UK, well not by anyone i know.

[Maya]

@basi:

I agree, not having ago at anyone as I know this is a common thing in the states but just not used in the UK, well not by anyone i know.

Oh, it is More than people know… Its still pretty frowned upon by the majority here so people dont talk about it, but i know of a couple of people in labs who use it, and also other breeds that i dont own.

I have dogs in for training for the ring sometimes and one person asked me to take theirs in and train it on these stilt things and got quite funny with me when i refused. But, its a principle thing, im sure she got someone else to train it quite happily :rolleyes:

[basi]

@Maya:

Oh, it is More than people know… Its still pretty frowned upon by the majority here so people dont talk about it, but i know of a couple of people in labs who use it, and also other breeds that i dont own.

I have dogs in for training for the ring sometimes and one person asked me to take theirs in and train it on these stilt things and got quite funny with me when i refused. But, its a principle thing, im sure she got someone else to train it quite happily :rolleyes:

I quite believe it:rolleyes:
It was mentioned it the breed notes once in the dog paper and was not spoke too highly of.

[Janneke]

@basi:

Phew I'm glad i am not the only one that doesn't like these contraptions. I do the same as you Jessica yes it does take longer but much kinder on the dog.

• 1.. I also think this isn't a kind way of learning a dog how to stand. Tillo had some troubles with stretching his hind legs. I learn him to keep them back by putting my feet in front of them and then asking him to walk to my hand. He got it in 2 seconds

[lvoss]

I think the dog's experience really depends on how you use the Happy Legs. I have had my dogs on them and they were rewarded for being on them. They were far more interested in eating cheese then being concerned about being on the stilts. I have never used them for an extended period of time. I also just hand stack and reward their holding the position, which is does the same thing. It can be helpful to start on the Happy Legs so they learn what it feels like to have their feet in that position. If they aren't comfortable on them then I don't use them.

[nomrbddgs]

I agree with Lisa. Some of my dogs love it (yum treats and goodies shoved in my face while I stand here) some hate it no matter what. I don't push the ones that don't like it. Mine free stack anyway, so that is not a huge issue with mine. I've used bait while they are on the ground and free stacked them that way.

[kiroja]

@lvoss:

I think the dog's experience really depends on how you use the Happy Legs. I have had my dogs on them and they were rewarded for being on them. They were far more interested in eating cheese then being concerned about being on the stilts. I have never used them for an extended period of time. I also just hand stack and reward their holding the position, which is does the same thing. It can be helpful to start on the Happy Legs so they learn what it feels like to have their feet in that position. If they aren't comfortable on them then I don't use them.

Same here. I don't use them very often, in fact didn't even use them on the last litter. But they do come in handy for learning certain things when the dog isn't getting it, especially adults and ADHD puppies. Also it makes the training session much faster, and happier for the dog. They get lots of praise, pets, and treats while they're up there. And since they're holding the position needed, it only takes a few seconds then we're off to do something else. And I actually have my dogs walk up onto them sorta with a little help and treats, so they learn right from the start that it's not really "falling", just a little uncomfortable standing with one foot on/one foot off. lol And believe me, they know they can jump off and run around the house playing keep away whenever they want to! I usually use them on the floor, not on a table except for picture taking times.

[saba]

Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it :).

Ochre's lessons are now in full swing, and despite my clumsiness, she seems to be just starting to pick up what Im trying to teach her :D.

[kiroja]

Awesome! Keep it up.

[chiya]

Better late than never right?? LOL

Here is the few short paragraphs I wrote to
try to explain to a new owner how to teach her
pup to free stack. Hope it makes sense to you Saba.

Some tips may have already been mentioned
in previous posts.

As far as free baiting goes,
here is what I do to train my dogs to free bait.

First you need to teach him "stand stay".
A really useful tool to teach a dog to hold a stack is by using
a tool called the "happy legs". Its a training tool that you stack
your dog on the stilts and teach him the commend "stand stay".
Once he understands what stand stay means, you practice
on the ground. Then here is how I teach him to stretch out in a show
dog stance where his front legs and his hocks are perpendicular to
the ground. I do so by using the show lead to guide him and using the
commend "step up". To do that it takes time and patient and lots
of love coz sometimes you just want to ring your dog's neck.
The concept is to teach him to only step up a step or two with his
front feet, and his back feet stay put, you do so by slightly pulling
the lead to your left and slightly knocking him off balance so he
has no choice but to take a little step.
Every time he takes a couple steps by you pulling slightly
on the lead to knock him off balance, you need to incorporate
the commend "step up", then you immediately reward him
with a treat.

http://www.happylegs.com/
This is what happy legs is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WZrFJKWT8Y
OK, dog in video is Denver, he is already trained, the purpose
of this clip is to show his new handler how to show him the
way I have him trained.
But it is to give you an idea what I mean when I talked about
pulling the lead slightly to the left to make him step up a couple
steps while his back feet stay put. Then you tell him to stand
stay while you walk back a few steps away from the dog.
I give a commend to every move I teach my dog.

Teaching them to catch the treat in mid air is another
trick you can do to keep him paying attention to you while
you are in the ring. I use the commend "watch me" as
I am getting ready to throw him some bait to catch, and
of course use the comment "catch" when he is catching.

He will catch on to step-up, stand stay, watch me
and catch quickly!
Pretty soon you will have a dog that can free stack and paying
full attention to you with ears up and showing off wrinkles
at the end of a 4 foot lead!!

Now you know why I like my lead looooooong!

Anyhoo…..here is my two cents worth!! Hope it makes sense to some.

[saba]

@chiya:

Better late than never right?? LOL

Here is the few short paragraphs I wrote to
try to explain to a new owner how to teach her
pup to free stack. Hope it makes sense to you Saba.

Some tips may have already been mentioned
in previous posts.

As far as free baiting goes,
here is what I do to train my dogs to free bait.

First you need to teach him "stand stay".
A really useful tool to teach a dog to hold a stack is by using
a tool called the "happy legs". Its a training tool that you stack
your dog on the stilts and teach him the commend "stand stay".
Once he understands what stand stay means, you practice
on the ground. Then here is how I teach him to stretch out in a show
dog stance where his front legs and his hocks are perpendicular to
the ground. I do so by using the show lead to guide him and using the
commend "step up". To do that it takes time and patient and lots
of love coz sometimes you just want to ring your dog's neck.
The concept is to teach him to only step up a step or two with his
front feet, and his back feet stay put, you do so by slightly pulling
the lead to your left and slightly knocking him off balance so he
has no choice but to take a little step.
Every time he takes a couple steps by you pulling slightly
on the lead to knock him off balance, you need to incorporate
the commend "step up", then you immediately reward him
with a treat.

http://www.happylegs.com/
This is what happy legs is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WZrFJKWT8Y
OK, dog in video is Denver, he is already trained, the purpose
of this clip is to show his new handler how to show him the
way I have him trained.
But it is to give you an idea what I mean when I talked about
pulling the lead slightly to the left to make him step up a couple
steps while his back feet stay put. Then you tell him to stand
stay while you walk back a few steps away from the dog.
I give a commend to every move I teach my dog.

Teaching them to catch the treat in mid air is another
trick you can do to keep him paying attention to you while
you are in the ring. I use the commend "watch me" as
I am getting ready to throw him some bait to catch, and
of course use the comment "catch" when he is catching.

He will catch on to step-up, stand stay, watch me
and catch quickly!
Pretty soon you will have a dog that can free stack and paying
full attention to you with ears up and showing off wrinkles
at the end of a 4 foot lead!!

Now you know why I like my lead looooooong!

Anyhoo…..here is my two cents worth!! Hope it makes sense to some.

Hi Chiya,

Thank you soooooooooo much for the reply… I really appreciate the help... I have started Ochre on the free stacking, and Im pleased to say that so far we are making baby steps :). Thanks to a quick response from Kiroja, I was able to start on the training... Sometimes I think she has "got it", then other times she just looks at me with a "What exactly do you want ME to do ???", look on her face :D. She isnt up to doing it in the ring yet, but, at the last show we went to, I did ask her to do it once or twice, outside the ring, and she actually did it, kind of !!! I still have to pull the lead out, just as you explained, use the word, (I use "show"), and unbalance her, to get her to do it, but, we are making progress...

I really enjoyed the youtube vid as well, that really helped to cement it into my brain... It was funny, I watched the vid before I had finished reading your reply, and when you had him up on the table, then got him down, and wound the VERY long lead up, I was thinking to myself, "I wonder why she has a lead that long, I think I will only need my nice, short lead for this :D"...............Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, soon found out why you had it, didnt I ??? I think it looks so professional to be able to have your dog stand away from you, baiting beautifully, without the view of the handler in the background :).

I love the trick of him catching the bait as well, however, I wont be able to do that. Recently, SOME judges and stewards, are cracking down on the use of bait in the ring, altogether, and throwing it, is very much a no-no :rolleyes:. I think in the last 10 or so shows, Ive been told off by the judge for using bait while she is on the table, probably 4-5 times... I very much would like to say, "Go jump...", but, I just smile sweetly, apologize and then, keep my mouth shut... I might add, this has nothing to do with the dog eating a ton of food, or has a mouth filled with mushy bait either, when the judge is about to examine teeth :mad:.

Anyway, Im off to look at the vid, before Ochre and I do some more training... Again, thank you for the info :):):)...