Divided Classes

@Nemo:

but what are the chances that a really young puppy in BBE is going to win against a more mature dog in that same class? It's more of a curiosity to me considering I'm not eligible for BBE anyway (although Zoni is).

Well at Potomac, Liyah's brother won from BBE and went on to be Winner's Dog - and he was just a few days past 6 months (it was his first show). Needless to say, he beat dogs that were fully mature adults even though he was so young. I think it was a 5 point major. Another brother of hers just did the same thing (4 point major) at another show. If I were a breeder, I would think that I would want my puppies in BBE - especially if I thought they were very nice - but what do I know.

FWIW, Liyah's breeders have been deciding what classes she should be in (and balancing it with her siblings) - since I have had to take a less active role because of health issues with my father.

@renaultf1:

Well at Potomac, Liyah's brother won from BBE and went on to be Winner's Dog - and he was just a few days past 6 months (it was his first show). Needless to say, he beat dogs that were fully mature adults even though he was so young. I think it was a 5 point major. Another brother of hers just did the same thing (4 point major) at another show. If I were a breeder, I would think that I would want my puppies in BBE - especially if I thought they were very nice - but what do I know.

FWIW, Liyah's breeders have been deciding what classes she should be in (and balancing it with her siblings) - since I have had to take a less active role because of health issues with my father.

Yeah, I realize it's not uncommon, a puppy won a 5 point major at a supported entry in WI. I understand putting a good puppy in the class, but I'm not sure that is always the case. I guess for me it's more of a statistics thing. 🙂

@Nemo:

I'm guessing she is in BBE? What confuses me is why that class is always so large. I realize it's a bigger brag to win or place out of that class, but it seems like if the class is always loaded up, the chance of actually winning the class actually goes down versus if people spread out through the different classes. I realize it does happen, but what are the chances that a really young puppy in BBE is going to win against a more mature dog in that same class? It's more of a curiosity to me considering I'm not eligible for BBE anyway (although Zoni is).

At a show here in California a puppy in BBE went BOB just this August. I think it really depends on the judge and the entry. I have been to some shows where the entire BBE entry was under a year old. I have also had judges ask for ages.

@Rita:

Sorry have another question. Does the blood line from the parents on back make any difference?

Rita Jean

Not really sure how to answer this as I'm not exactly sure what you are asking…

As a breeder, I have shown all my puppies in the puppy classes. My pups act like pups so I have chosen to show them in the puppy classes. It does not mean I am any less proud of them and it does not mean I don't think they are competitive.

@Nemo:

Yeah, I realize it's not uncommon, a puppy won a 5 point major at a supported entry in WI. I understand putting a good puppy in the class, but I'm not sure that is always the case. I guess for me it's more of a statistics thing. 🙂

That's right…Liyah's brother won the 4 point major at the supported entry in PA a couple of weeks ago - Liyah won Best in Sweeps & Best Puppy (under Damara) 😃 at the same show. I don't think a breeder would enter what they consider an average puppy in the BBE class - again, but what do I know. I know Liyah's breeder usually enters what they consider their best.

Catalogs normally only show sire and dam unless it is a special event. It doesn't mean the rest of the pedigree doesn't matter but there just isn't space to print full pedigrees in most show catalogs. For special events pedigrees may be printed, like the African Exhibition which prints 3 generation pedigrees for the dogs entered.

@lvoss:

As a breeder, I have shown all my puppies in the puppy classes. My pups act like pups so I have chosen to show them in the puppy classes. It does not mean I am any less proud of them and it does not mean I don't think they are competitive.

And I would never think that either…I think different folks just approach the show thing differently. It is all still a mystery to me how all the decisions get made.

How do you decide which dogs/pups go into BBE?

And BTW, Liyah has been entered in puppy classes as well as BBE - but for the upcoming shows she is in BBE - although she might be in a puppy class at the National.

@lvoss:

As a breeder, I have shown all my puppies in the puppy classes. My pups act like pups so I have chosen to show them in the puppy classes. It does not mean I am any less proud of them and it does not mean I don't think they are competitive.

Hopefully, I didn't imply that. In my very limited experience, it seems like the majority of the breeders go for BBE versus the other classes.

What I mean if judge knows a pup has had family showed to a pup that its family never showed do they judge different. Again this is if Judge knew this.

I do not know much but if I was showing and had pups I would show them all no different then kids one may do better but o well. I like that there is a puppy class because that is what they are puppies.

Rita Jean

More to the point like you Ivoss if you were showing and I was and Judge knew you and your pups do they judge the same. Not just pointing at you just used your name because you said you showed all your pups.

Rita Jean

@Quercus:

Not Pat…but no. You are still competing against the same dogs. It just gives the judge another chance to look at the best one of each color and consider it for Winners (points) It DOES give competitors a better chance to win ribbons and trophies though 🙂

I agree, last year at our BCONC specialty, I showed Kobey in the Tri Class… he was the only one entered so he got to go back in for Winners.... It is entirely possible that had we been in just the open dog class, he would not have won and therefore would not have been able to go back in for Winners Dog... The judge did not particularly look at him for most of the Winners judging, however right at the end, he was stacked like a beautiful statue... and looked great... never put a foot wrong... the two that the judge was considering were really not showing that well... and we won winners dog... Had the classes not be split by color, I don't think that would have happened

@Rita:

More to the point like you Ivoss if you were showing and I was and Judge knew you and your pups do they judge the same. Not just pointing at you just used your name because you said you showed all your pups.

Rita Jean

It is not very often that the judge knows people, maybe professional handlers or people that have been in the breed forever… and even if they know you.. they should be judging dogs, not the people.... and in most cases that is the way it happens.... Usually what would win out is the "handling" of that pup... and usually the experienced person knows how to get the best out of the dog they are showing.

Case in point.. is Lisa's Nicky.... he was a totally different dog when I showed him compared to when Lisa showed him... he was excited to show for me... (and I harrassed him too...ggg).... made him look like the best dog in the ring and catch the judges attention

One reason that breeders like to put their pups in BBE is because if you get all your points to finish the dogs CH from BBE you get a medal from AKC. And you also can get another recognition medal if you have a certain number of champions with all points from BBE.

I usually show Hippo (and formerly Luna) in BBE because I would love to get one of those medals…but for the National I entered Hippo in Open Red, because I figured there would be fewer dogs in that class...jokes on me...just about the same number 😉

Thank you Pat, there was one handler had two tri's the other day as she said the other lady made the dog upset. When she would get in the ring she got upset so did the dog so she was showing him. I heard her tell the other lady that he was much better and he had to learn he could not get away with the things he had be doing.

Rita Jean

Just to add to what Pat was saying, sometimes a judge will have a preference for a certain type. In that case if my dog is from that family of dogs and has those traits that the judge likes, I may have an advantage under that judge. Doesn't mean that on that day my dog will cooperate and do its best though.

@Quercus:

One reason that breeders like to put their pups in BBE is because if you get all your points to finish the dogs CH from BBE you get a medal from AKC. And you also can get another recognition medal if you have a certain number of champions with all points from BBE.

I usually show Hippo (and formerly Luna) in BBE because I would love to get one of those medals…but for the National I entered Hippo in Open Red, because I figured there would be fewer dogs in that class...jokes on me...just about the same number 😉

Usually the way that happens…..... As a breeder I like showing in BBE, because I am proud of what I have bred.... but there have been times that I had two of the same sex out... so had to put one in Open, one in BBE.... don't ask how I decided which one... just put the youngest in BBE and the older in open...

@Rita:

Thank you Pat, there was one handler had two tri's the other day as she said the other lady made the dog upset. When she would get in the ring she got upset so did the dog so she was showing him. I heard her tell the other lady that he was much better and he had to learn he could not get away with the things he had be doing.

Rita Jean

They can feel you through the lead.. if you are nervous, they will typically be nervous….

I have been swapping around Rio and Sophie between Open and BBE. I think that Rio is getting a better look in the Open class. I am not sure it matters so much which class Sophie is in, more of a matter of what brain she decides to bring to the show.

I have gotten BBE medallions for my dogs FC titles.

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