@Saving thank you very much for the suggestions!
A diagnosed biter
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I have read in several 'standards' for Basenjis (or articles, I can't remember) that said, and I quote:
"A clear way to tell if a Basenji feels something is a threat or prey is when it circles around the object/person/animal. Usually this happens with animals in packs, but Basenjis do not have to be in a pack to circle around their prey. When they are circling, usually they are determining how to kill the threat or prey, and they will also do this to humans with whom they are unfamiliar."
Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basenji (among others)I can't wait to see Tucker circling on of my friends. If they ask what he's doing, I'll simply tell them, "Oh nothing, he's just trying to figure out how to kill you…"
Those of you following this thread, I have another question, since it involved biting... Every morning, after our walk, I put Tuck outside and give him a Kong to occupy him while I leave. I prepare the kong with a load of "Stuff'n" (squeeze cheese whizz liver paste orpeanut butter flavored stuff) that I freeze overnight to keep him occupied for a little bit longer. Now I KNOW that he knows I'm the boss, but sometimes, when I toss the kong and miss his crate, I'll go to get it again and he's protecting it, as in, he acts like he'll bite me if I try to take it away (trust me, I know the signs when it comes to getting bitten myself!) for repositioning. (I feel that I need to explain this silly portion...if I leave the kong on the deck, he'll eventually roll it off the edge and then I have to pull a Jeff Corwin in the massive bushes below to get it back!) This happened just this morning and it only happens every so often, like maybe once a month. Because it's so infrequent, it always shocks me and my instant result is fear, simply stated, of getting bitten. So I have to step back and call him to me, pet him a bit, and then reach for the kong. I've read and seen vids that this means he DOESN'T acknowledge me as the 'pack leader'. I should be able to take it away from him at any time. Is this correct? Am I suffering from an illusion that I am the 'pack leader' when I really am not? It's this way with most everything he steals. I simply call him off, then pick it up. I never try to just take it away as a 'pack leader' should be able to. But he ALWAYS backs off when I verbally tell him to, dropping whatever it is, even if it's yummy people food.
I assume that I am 'managing' the situation correctly, but if I believe everthing I read and see, I'm still NOT the 'pack leader'. Is this the case? If so, should I work with him more on this, randomly taking those types of things away? When it comes to socks, thongs, tissue and toys, the 'take away' isn't a problem (I can just take it from him). Food and a tasty kong is another story.
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I have read in several 'standards' for Basenjis (or articles, I can't remember) that said, and I quote:
"A clear way to tell if a Basenji feels something is a threat or prey is when it circles around the object/person/animal. Usually this happens with animals in packs, but Basenjis do not have to be in a pack to circle around their prey. When they are circling, usually they are determining how to kill the threat or prey, and they will also do this to humans with whom they are unfamiliar."
Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basenji (among others)I can't wait to see Tucker circling on of my friends. If they ask what he's doing, I'll simply tell them, "Oh nothing, he's just trying to figure out how to kill you…"
This cracked me up…If that is true about the circling, my dog Ruby wants to kill the kitchen table as she does laps around it all the time (only happens when people aren't sitting at it or eating). Just for fun sometimes, I join in on the lap and run around the table with her and then she stops and looks at me like "mom, you just ruined all my fun".
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As I am learning wikipedia is not God's word, just anybody who has an opinion proven or not- It's factually proven info
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Tucker may not view you as the ultimate decider of all things, and giver of all things good yet. He had a tough road, and I am sure it isn't easy for him to trust humans. But calling him over while you pick up an item that he is guarding is NOT showing him that you are subordinate to him. It is helping build trust. When you feel that 'uh, he might bite me' feeling, he is sending you signs that he is willing to protect this item that he views as his. The fact that he will come over, while you remove the item is a huge step in his progress. Keep doing that…but try this, call him over FIRST....then reach for the object, so you don't give him the opportunity to guard it.
I think it would help you understand your dog more if you gave up the "human must be dominant" theories, and tried to understand the relationship more as cooperation. You have to build Tucker's trust in you as the leader...leadership is earned (particularly with an adopted adult dog with issues) -- not demanded. Once he trusts that you will protect him and meet his needs, he won't feel the need to take on the world.
Again, another reference is "MINE" by Jean Donaldson. All about resource guarding in dogs. There are some really helpful exercises in this book.
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understand the relationship more as cooperation. You have to build Tucker's trust in you as the leader…leadership is earned (particularly with an adopted adult dog with issues) -- not demanded.
Those words should be carved in basenji training stone.
The problem is regular dog trainers do not understands that with basenji's. Everything with them is physical punishment (correction) or reward. That does not work with basenji's, at least in my experience.
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It's funny but I always felt ashamed of me being a poor dog owner, that my dog is a biter and is my fault (which could be true, but the more I think about it, he always was)
It's nice to realize many others here come across the same problem and just maybe it's not all my fault. I know that my dog's mother was a biter and nipped a judge and was dissmissed, never allowed to enter a ring again and bit a child who wandered into the yard, cornered the dog and had to be relocated sometime after we got him.
today a weight of guilt has been lifted off my shoulders. I had times when he bit my kids and I seriously thought of getting rid of him, but we ALL felt he was our family member and we do not give up on family. we just had to do what ever it takes to control his behavior.
These pictures of him guarding his blanket/mom from the other dog. It shows that no one's going to mess with an angry basenji
He really does not do it anymore even to the other dog, he has mellowed out a lot, that and our constant working on controlling his world. He's pretty much a big love bug now- but still I'm never letting down on the rules. It keeps him in his place.
He's a very happy & relaxed doggy in the last couple of years
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Those words should be carved in basenji training stone.
The problem is regular dog trainers do not understands that with basenji's. Everything with them is physical punishment (correction) or reward. That does not work with basenji's, at least in my experience.
Well…trainers run the gammut between really good...and really bad...just as with every occupation....it is an unregulated and uncertified field, and ANYBODY can call themselves a trainer, and charge whatever they want for their advice. And, there are really good trainers whose methods just aren't right for every dog. It is important for trainers to know how to deal with different types of dogs, and it is up the consumer to find a trainer that they feel comfortable with, and feel successful with.
The nice thing about positive reinforcement training is that there are virtually no dogs that don't respond well to it. You can't screw a dog up by using positive reinforcement training.
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P.S. That is one seriously scary dog pic! Beautiful dog though…
Note for budding dog behaviorists....see how you can see the white of his eye? We call that "whale-eye"..and it is a good sign that a dog is in serious protection/freak-out/guarding mode. A lot of times you can see it right BEFORE they snap. It is a good warning sign to back off RIGHT NOW!
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This him in play mode- but telling the other dog my toy! stay away. I can pet and rub him in that mode, it's the other dog he's telling to back off.
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I'm reading alote of posts/threads on here about basenji's biteing people and children. also how alote of owners put them away whether in a crate or room or behind a gate when company comes over. I'm kinda shocked is this the way most basenji's are !*? Is this because they are said to be a "wild" breed?
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@vstripe:
I'm kinda shocked is this the way most basenji's are !*? Is this because they are said to be a "wild" breed?
Ancient breed, intelligent and very independent.
I have one of six that we have to be careful with. In most cases the problem starts when the guest walks in already afraid. I've seen people walk in with the same dog, not afraid, know how to greet him and he is like a big baby. I've seen that same dog nip people from behind for not paying attention to him.
You could take Willy or Jasper and do what every you want with them.
Kids, especially if the dogs aren't used to children are another whole ballgame and require caution.
They're all a little different based on personality and what they're exposed to.
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@vstripe:
I'm reading alote of posts/threads on here about basenji's biteing people and children. also how alote of owners put them away whether in a crate or room or behind a gate when company comes over. I'm kinda shocked is this the way most basenji's are !*? Is this because they are said to be a "wild" breed?
I would say that currently MOST are not like this. Breeders have worked very hard to improve temperament over the past 50 or so years. But there are certainly quite a few. We are in the same boat as BBoy…only one of six is dangerous.
And yes, it is because they are more primative.
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Doing rescue, I see dogs who as puppies are NOT well socialized…they also have parents who have "issues" and this can be passed on to the litter.
Bad breeding and lack of socialization can give a basenji many strikes against them.
Lucky for most of us, the breeders who care about these dogs are going above and beyond, to get dogs that are not only beautiful, but have health and good temperment.
For damaged dogs, you have to work to find out what sets them off, a pro is needed for that, and its not easy and then either keep them away (manage them) or work to make this an issue the dog doesn't react to...
All of this takes time and $$ and beyond that, caring what happens to the dog.
We all want to work to save them all. I am the first to say, I have had b's in my house I was afraid of, and sent to the bridge...not a popular comment, but its a true one in my case.
The ones who we couldn't rehome, but could live with, were with us until they passed over.
We just kept them safe, and folks around them safe...Its hard, its stressful..some families just can't do it.
I so hope we can hear good results with this basenji...cause I know the owner really does care for this hound. -
Our breeder is a great breeder and our dog is the only dog of the litter to be a biter that I know of (mom was). They were socialized as puppies we did all the training classes & even showed him, which he was fine, but still certain times would bite and always will. It just his nature.
Or other dog is the opposite a scared biter, she bites, but never even uses her teeth it's all bluff with her. She pretend bites, odd but true- no one fears her in our family but if the other dog bites he means business.
I often tell people what is really inside our dogs is a badger.
When we went to shows I would ask people if I could pet there dogs, they all said yes and I get down and pet & even hugged some of the dogs and they enjoyed it. I really don't have a fear or problem with them for the most part.
Our breeder told us Basenji's have come a long way in temperment. They used to be a lot worse- she said I could never do what I do at shows years ago.
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IMO, Basenjis SHOULD allow themselves to be gently touched by strangers. I would find it acceptable if a dog moves away, or shows mild discomfort, but doesn't act on it.
But I don't think it is a problem if dogs don't like to be hugged. I still don't want them snapping etc, about it...but I would absolutely freak out at a human stranger if they decided to hug my dog...of any breed. -
I think I would freak out, myself, if some stranger came up to me and gave me a hug….unless it was a cute single girl!
I know this next bit should go in the feeding thread, but it kinda ties in here since we've covered the managing and trust thing...
When I got Tucker, the previous Owner's left food out for him all day long. I do the same thing since my plan involved changing his 'quirks' a little by little. The main ones, aside from biting, have been 'rehabilitated'. I'm thinking that I might go to the 'one feed per day' routine, but I'm not sure if that's necessary since we've come to terms and learned to coexist. He's not a pig or gluttonous. He typically eats a good deal in the afternoon/evening when I get home from work and then nibbles here and there the rest of the day. He normally does NOT eat when I am not home. I'm not sure why, but he doesn't.
Anyway, as for the controlled feeding, it's important in establishing the 'trust' thing because then he would be more dependant on me, correct?
Any recommendations? I don't think twice a day feedings, to start, will work because he rarely eats in the morning. He has access to food on the balcony (he's got an inside dining setup and and outside dining setup...) while I am away at work, but he VERY RARELY touches it. I come home, let him in, and he hangs out for a bit and then goes to eat...and he doesn't eat a lot at this time - I imagine that this is the case because he knows it's going to be there when he comes back...
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You might try hand feeding him either some of his kibble, or a healthy biscuit or two in the AM, after doing a few simple behaviors before you leave.
Normally, when I leave him in the morning, knowing he doesn't eat while I'm gone, I give him a couple teeny greenies or a small kong full of stuff'n. This was the method I implemented to divert his attention to my leaving in the mornings when he initially suffered from separation anxiety… It kinda stuck, so I just kept at it. And it's become a weekday ritual, one of those things he can depend on every morning. He acts like a junkie gettin' his fix when I go to put him out there. :p
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TuckerVA-I definitely agree with Andrea….those of us with "feisty dog" (my preferrd term to use
) know that trust is definitely earned. I don't have a problem with that. I tell DH the same thing. TOPAZ has nipped him a few times b/c he's sometimes assumed that he's boss & it's taken time for him to earn her trust as well. She used to guard her feeding dish as well. I taught DH to call her out of her crate & then remove the dish. NOW it doesn't matter but it took her time to understand that we were the givers of great things & didn't need to feel threatened 
It does take time... -
TuckerVA-I definitely agree with Andrea….those of us with "feisty dog" (my preferrd term to use
) know that trust is definitely earned. I don't have a problem with that. I tell DH the same thing. TOPAZ has nipped him a few times b/c he's sometimes assumed that he's boss & it's taken time for him to earn her trust as well. She used to guard her feeding dish as well. I taught DH to call her out of her crate & then remove the dish. NOW it doesn't matter but it took her time to understand that we were the givers of great things & didn't need to feel threatened It does take time...Don't ask me to tell you what Tim's method was to get back things that Ivy snatched when she was younger. His reaction made our situation worse, I am convinced. Let's just say one incident involved a counter, a chunk of steak, one couch, a large cushion, a very angry human and an even angrier dog…ugh...
