14 fits best
Thanks, that's a big help! BTW, I'm from the Bay Area, but have been in MI for 20 years. MI is like living in the Sierra Nevada mountains, like Truckee or Reno, which is why I think I need the outfit that covers the legs too. When I order, I'll go for the 14 and see how that works. Again, thanks.
Thank you so much! I'm really keen on getting the Hurrta "Extreme Overall"
Sanji's only 4.5 months, so I think I'll have to wait for at least 6 months if not 10.
What size did you get? Yours looks a lot like my pup.
You "don't want to sound rude", but you clearly do_not_respect the contributions from well established Basenji Breeders in our community. You claim that you "favor advice from those with the most recent and demonstrated evidence-based knowledge..." Their opinions, insights, and knowledge are valuable -- even if you don't agree with them.
I'm sorry that you are offended by, and appear to misrepresent, what I wrote. I will clarify. To state that I "do not respect" certain breeders or that I do not find their information useful contradicts my very statements to the opposite. For example, I wrote, "Breeding an animal for 20 years will provide a lot of insight and experience with a breed and with dogs, I have much respect for that accumulated knowledge." I also have made similar statements above to this effect, including, "I appreciate your experience and the advice you and other breeders have to offer. I find much of it useful." I've stated the same in other topics.
Perhaps you were irked by what follows in that sentence after "but." However, what I wrote is not a criticism of breeders or disrespectful, but an objective fact relevant to my skepticism of anyone claiming infallible knowledge on the basis of experience. I wrote, in this regard, "but that does not make that person a certified or licensed trainer." I stand by that statement because it is true (even if a tautology). I regret that you interpreted it as offensive or disrespectful. Maybe that's my fault; perhaps I came off as arrogant as someone who scoffs at professional trainers.
An analogy might convey what I intended: A person has been an New York art dealer for 30 years and knows a lot about art and the market. Another person has a doctorate in art history from 10 years earlier with a focus on contemporary art markets. A third person, me, a novice, is thinking of investing in an art piece, but hears different claims from both. I'm simply saying that if the dealer claimed they are correct without a doubt based on their experience, one might have doubts about the dealer's claim of infallibility on that basis and one might consider that the art historian is correct. I believe that would be logical and objective. But to be sure, I'm also saying that I would listen carefully to the information and advice of the dealer who does indeed have practical knowledge and experience, even if their claim of infallibility based on experience is problematic.
and then you quote YouTube sources?
Yes, I do. That a professional trainer places content on YouTube, or a website, or indeed this very forum, does not detract from the authenticity of their credentials any more than that of a breeder. Brenda Aloff, for example, is a renowned trainer with many publications and she IS a local source. I inserted a link to her site for anyone to inspect her credentials. As I've noted before, I learned from her nine years ago.
Michelle Lennon, whose free lesson on YouTube I shared (but you removed), is also a reputable trainer whose online course I took and whose live zoom chat sessions I attended. I learned even more from her in a shorter span than the weekly sessions with Aloff. They and others have a lot of great suggestions, tips, advice, and techniques, as do the breeders. Not that I agree with all their claims either. I realized that Michelle is cautious about things like doggy doors and electric fences after hearing the stories of people who didn't apply them (properly train the dog) and use them (know the limitations) they way I do. I had no problem for 9 years after a few initial errors. If I were in her shoes, I'd probably also not advocate these tools because the costs are too high to try to teach them since so many won't do it the way that works and will take short cuts, and then blame her (or sue her). (I bet she gets advice from a lawyer on what to avoid.)
Thanks for your patience with this long response and I hope we can respect each other's point of view.
This is my last response on this topic.
"All positive" trainers throw out half the tools in the bag, but actually they don't, they just don't label them correctly, e.g. "time out" is negative punishment, but we wouldn't want to use the "p" word, would we? Confining a dog to a crate away from people is negative punishment, so call it what it is. ...But a piece of paper does not a dog trainer make, and the lack of same does not negate someone's experience.
I agree with your logic. So perhaps its just that what I mean by trainers using "positive training techniques" and "old school" are different than what you have in mind. None of the professional trainers I've worked with fit your description above. Those I've learned from do use and negative reinforcements, including use of the crate for that purpose on certain occasions, and they do discuss it as negative reinforcement. I'm not sure what the best way to describe "old school" is, but I think we're probably on the same page as something like abuse. For example, I agree with trainers who oppose hitting a dog for any reason, particularly as a training technique, not just because it is abusive, but because it doesn't work and primarily teaches a dog to fear a human, or worse.
Another example is what elbrant mentioned (in opposition to puppy crate training): letting a puppy cry in their crate until they pass out from exhaustion. She is right, this "this is a horrible way to treat an animal." None of the trainers I've worked with and learned from suggest doing this. To me, that would characterize "old school" training.
My sense from this discussion is that the opinions being expressed by those opposed to crate training puppies are not professional trainers. Breeding an animal for 20 years will provide a lot of insight and experience with a breed and with dogs, I have much respect for that accumulated knowledge, but, not to sound rude, that does not make that person a certified or licensed trainer. We keep babies in a crib to keep them safe; we do the same for puppies. Just to be certain we're on the same page, I'm not advocating that any dog, puppy or adult, be crated all day long. I agree with not crating at night once the pup is potty/crate trained (the two work together well).
I have learned from several certified dog training professionals who use modern positive-reinforcement techniques. This includes Brenda Aloff, Michelle Lennon, and I've reviewed content from others including Zak George, and Ken McCann. They all say something very similar to what Michelle states in this video about common misperceptions regarding crate training puppies (and she also states her credentials).
[removed YouTube link]
Being a scientist myself with a Ph.D., I'm a skeptic of unproven claims from un-credentialed sources regardless of experience. Indeed, those who claim they are right based on experience raises red flags for me. I favor advice from those with the most recent and demonstrated evidence-based knowledge. John Maynard Keynes was reported to have said in response to a person questioning why he changed his view on on a policy matter, "Sir, when I encounter new facts, I change my mind. What do you do?" (That wasn't what he actually said, but it makes the point.)
The techniques I learned regarding crate training have worked, so I'm rather skeptical that Basenjis are so different than other dogs in this regard.
But as someone wrote above, "the bottom line is what works for you."
What I've learned agrees with all of that, except that I'd qualify that only while they are potty training would I crate them at night. I agree, from what I've learned about active dogs including basenjis, they can't handle much crate time during the day. Now that Sanji is potty trained and crate trained, we let him sleep with us. Up to that point, he did great at night in the crate, volunteering to go in. I disagree with trainers and others opposed to doggy doors and electric fences. We had good experiences for nine years with our last dog with this combo, and I've not heard any convincing reasons why it won't work with a besanji. Indeed, so far it's working great. But perhaps that's because of how we use them. I suspect others have had problems because they use them differently.
Curious how your experience runs contrary to the positions of professional trainers on crate training. I have yet to encounter any that advise sleeping with a puppy. Maybe I've overlooked them... All I can say is that their training techniques have worked for us and trying to sleep with Sanji prior to potty and crate training was not.
@sanjibasenji - You should pick them up and carry them out... until they are older and can hold pee/poo, not let them figure out how to get outside. At night I wake them and take them out, carry out and then carry in back to the crate. And yes the first couple of months are the hardest and you miss sleep... but wake them up and carry them out. Don't expect them to hold it and walk outside... puppies are used to getting up and going potty, not holding it. Remember that when with the litter they have Mom to clean up after them...
And honestly I don't agree that at night they should be by themselves... the need to be with their human...
I agree with all, except last sentence. If one doesn't teach them to sleep alone at night and during the day, it'll be a problem down the road when they have to be left alone. They may develop separation anxiety. My sense is that the basenji, and some other breeds, don't do well alone. The sooner they learn to spend some time alone, the less difficult it will be for them later when they have to be alone. Our work in this regard I believe has paid off. At first we were catering to him. He was training us. Then we followed the advice of our training pro, and began leaving him in the crate at night down stairs from our room. It was tough at first. But we stuck it out and within a few weeks he was going into his crate voluntarily. If we hadn't, it'd be really hard on him when we have to leave him in there for 2-3 hours when we can't be home.
I have both. Use the smaller plastic in the car. The wire is too big and bulky for that. I'm not sure about having the crate where one sleeps until they are potty trained, for two reasons. One, they need to get used to being by themselves for situations that require it, and two, it's convenient at night to have it near the door so the pup doesn't pee or poo in your hands on the way out. The first month is the worst, getting up every couple of hours...
Size is key for crate/potty training, and cover it at night. Small crate or reduce available space of a large one.
At 4.5 months, Sanji is potty trained and now sleeps with us. But sometimes we have to step out and leave him in the crate. Glad we crate trained him at night and crucially, for naps during the day when he was younger and not potty trained.
With our last dog of nine years (a cockapoo), we used a doggy door and electric fence. It worked great. Kai could leave for potty or to chase squirrels (never caught one) as he pleased during the day; over time we got to the point where he wouldn't try to escape the yard and could leave the doggy door unlocked even when we were not home for 8 hours. But he always wore the collar during the day, and we always locked the doggy door at night. We became rather careful about that after forgetting one night. He jumped on our bed at 1 am after being sprayed by a skunk. It was so powerful that my eyes were burning and I was coughing. (A mix of hydrogen peroxide and baking soda works well we found.)
I suppose we'll have to build up that trust with Sanji. I don't trust him to stay within the fence yet, though he is doing very well. Fast learner. Over the past month, he's really learned what it's about. He intentionally challenged it once, knowing that he'd get a "correction." I was surprised at how boldly he just ran to it knowing he'd get zapped. He wasn't chasing or distracted by anything. He just decided to ignore my verbal warnings, the sound association we had been working on (a deep "Uh uhn"). I had it on the lowest setting so I guest he thought he'd challenge me and it. I put it on a higher setting and after he challenged again within moments, he learned it wasn't worth it. It'll take a long time for me to trust him outside, so we'll continue to supervise when he's out and reassess in six months.
I was very careful to introduce it slowly over weeks: flags on the perimeter, leash walks with sound warnings first. It's worked well.
In our front, people and dogs will walk by, and in our back, there's a park with regular dog-walkers and a basketball court. In both front and back he has consistently respected the boundaries for a few weeks now: he sits and watches, particularly to sun bath. Kai never sun-bathed. I'm impressed with his poise at just 4.5 months.
So, I'm hoping this will work out as well as it did with Kai, but I cannot imagine him not wearing the electric fence collar during the day and not being supervised, at least loosely from a distance or from inside. If he wasn't wearing it, sooner or later, he'd accidentally or intentionally wander across the barrier and then I don't know what would happen. That happened with Kai a few times and I had to go find him in the neighborhood. Scared me quite a bit. Ironically, he got killed by a car in a small and never-busy dirt parking area of a park last Dec. when my daughter turned to greet an arriving friend and he ventured away for just a few seconds. It was something of a freak accident because he avoided cars and I still can't figure out how it happened. Obviously, I'm super cautious with Sanji.
And at 4.5 months, I'm beginning to see why people love this breed. He's way more affectionate, smart, and curious that Kai was (not to diminish his wonderful ways and character). Frankly, I don't like puppies. They look cute, but they don't behave cute. Training and care is hard work, very time consuming, and they're so unruly. As Sanji has relatively settled down and his character is coming through, I enjoy him more and more everyday. He's really growing on me. I never had a dog that loves to snuggle the way he does; and he's such a beautiful creature.
I have all these questions about besanjis because I want to do the best for him so he can be the best dog he can be. We're off to a great start, and the advice and knowledge I'm getting from you all is appreciated. Glad I found this site! Thanks!
Interesting that both of you take collars off when at home. I suppose you are both in a situation where you don't worry about the escaping. I'm hesitant in that regard...
I would guess also that you don't have collars on when they are at home so that they are more comfortable. Is that true?
Thanks for your views.
Indeed, they have photos of basenjis!
The videos of his collars are nice!
This is quality stuff. I suppose I should wait till he's full grown. I think this is worth the investment. I don't like how is nylon collar is fraying and dirty already. But is a leather martingale type OK for romping around? Or just for when on leash?