@yodabasenji said in biting..again:

@scagnetti
Thank you for your suggestions!
We are trying to build value in ourselves by hand feeding him from day 1. He doesn't have a food bowl, everything comes from our hand and that is the only time he's really not biting. And during feeding, we usually try to make things fun by teaching him tricks. What else can we do?

We are crate training him, but he goes to crate only when he's tired (he does this on his own on occasion), because otherwise he cries and jumps and he can't calm down. And as I've already mentioned, he peed in his crate during one of these episodes, so we're afraid to do it again, but we'll start working on that more.

We need to start doing are the handling drills. We thought that if he comes to us for a cuddle, that it should be enough, but I guess we need to reward him more every time he's calm.

Thanks!

Hand-feeding is great, but that alone doesn't build value. When I say make yourself valuable, what I mean is doing something interactive with the dog, something where the dog is focused and excited about doing something with you specifically, instead of on an object (toy, food). A session of engagement training looks like this: your dog looks at you, you run away and let him chase you, when he reaches you, give him food rewards, repeat.

Also, instead of focusing on tricks, I would be doing handling drills with his meals.

If he cries and jumps in the crate and only goes in when he wants, then he isn't crate trained. If he peed, then you might be going too fast too soon. Go slowly (meaning don't ask for too much initially (have low criteria for rewarding)), make the crate appealing, do it often for short periods, again, working at his pace. You might be training crate skills for 6 months (hopefully not though).

As for the handling drills, they are incredibly important, especially with sensitive dogs, which Basenjis (generally) are. And handling drills are just as important with other breeds as well, especially if you want to do things with them and make them do things. If he comes to you to cuddle, then he's only going to be fine with you touching him when he wants it. But if he doesn't, which is probably going to be in the daytime, then he'll probably bite. This is also a must for vet visits, grooming, etc.

Practicing being alone is very useful. However, I would suggest practicing it after a long walk or when the dog is worn out, so he doesn't have the energy to put into being anxious.

Also, leaving the dog with a (single) chew toy is probably better than leaving the dog with food.

You may wish to train being alone with a crate.

• Wear dog out with physical activity
• Put dog in crate
• Close crate, reward with food
• Turn around and walk a step or two
• Immediately turn back around and open crate
• Let the dog out
• Repeat, but each time walking further away when your back is turned. Eventually you should walk out of the room, then immediately come back and open the crate. Then once the dog is okay with you walking out of sight, work on duration; stay out of sight for a bit longer.
• After this, you can work on leaving the house, and then building duration when out of the house.

Of course this method, means he needs to like his crate.

Also, I wouldn't turn the tv on, unless he's socialized to it and it's on a lot when you're with him. Otherwise, it will predict you leaving, and he might start to freak out when you turn it on. i.e. whenever you turn it on, you leave, so he becomes anxious.

@yodabasenji said in biting..again:

@scagnetti
Ok, I think I understand now about the handling drills, thanks.

And our thought was, that if playing in the crate calms him down, that should be a good thing, but I guess we keep doing things wrong.

THIS IS SO HARD!!

In general, you don't want to reinforce bad behavior. I don't know what "went all crazy" means, but if it's undesirable behavior, behavior you don't want him to continue doing, then I would advise against giving him rewards (toy) when he is acting in that manner.

If you put him in the crate with no toys, then that could be fine, as long as he isn't spinning around, screaming, etc.

Honestly, it sounds to me like the dog needs more exercise and possibly small amounts of social isolation.

I don't know your dog, or you, or how you guys interact with each other, and trying to glean information off posts is a bit difficult, especially if I'm prescribing something, but all of the information I've given should help.

Also, I said this is one of the other posts, but you haven't had the dog for a long time and you guys probably don't have a strong relationship yet. Things get better with time (usually).

@antoinette said in 17 month old castrated male: From trained to untrained overnight:

@scagnetti said in 17 month old castrated male: From trained to untrained overnight:

Where are you having the problems outside? Is it halfway on the walk or immediately after you step out of the door?

Do you have his attention inside before going out?

Is he on a collar or a harness?

I'll be able to give you more specific advice after those questions are answered.

Thanks for quick response! Answers to those questions ^^

• Problem arises as soon as we step out of the door
• We have lots of attention inside (even before we go out he is well-behaved and calm)
• He is on a harness (worth mentioning that he did walk nicely on a harness before - but willing to switch things up if that could work)

We live in an apartment unfortunately, so no yard or anywhere to safely let him off-leash. Point taken on pausing the long lead walks, we definitely don't want this to become "learned behaviour". We can also absolutely just do super short training walks with him instead of full walks - he gets super tired from brain games so we can tire him out inside that way.

I would recommend practicing (having him rehearse) going outside. If he's okay indoors, but behaves wildly as soon as you go outdoors, that means going outdoors is a big deal to him. It shouldn't be. A well-adjusted dog won't be stimulated and amped and uncontrollable (and possibly anxious/fearful/reactive) when going outside.

Practice going outside before going outside, i.e. get his attention indoors (on a lead), open the door, hold his attention while door is open, close door. Once you can hold his attention at the open door, you'll start going outside, one or two steps, then turning around and going back inside. Slowly you should go further and further outside until you can hold his attention away from the building and have him start regarding you outside in general.

Again, the process above is at your dog's pace.

Harnesses are a great tool for building motivation, because the dog can be restrained and frustrated, thus building drive and desire. In this instance however, there really isn't a need for a harness or extra motivation to go outdoors. And continuing to use it will ensure that he pulls harder. You should probably switch to a collar. In fact, you may wish to begin leash pressure training with a slip lead. You can socialize him to the slip lead prior to using it, by having him wear it while feeding/training and taking it off when done. You can socialize him to the collar by practicing taking it on and off with food.

@yodabasenji said in biting..again:

Hey guys!
Sorry about disappearing but I decided to quit the internet research, stop panicking and analyzing every aspect of my puppy.
I focused on getting to know him better and creating a connection while applying the methods you suggested above.

I needed to figure out how much exercise and other activity he needs, how to calm him down and he really needed to get used to touching and handling, so slooowly things got better.
He still bites, but much much less (I don't need to walk in boots at home anymore!) and the biting is mostly connected to playing and sometimes him not getting what he wants but we're working on that.

Thanks again for all the advice, it really helped.
And as you said multiple times, it takes time, patience and consistency and it will get better.

Glad to hear it. I'm happy to hear that you're working on relationship building. This makes things so much easier in general; teaching, living with, etc.

I edited my post to make it more legible. I wrote this half asleep. All of the information is sound.

As for the medical aspect, there's no reason not to get that checked out. Always good to cover all bases. Usually 1 year and a half is when pet owners realize that their dog isn't actually trained like they thought, which is why I mention the training component.

@JENGOSMonkey said in Puppy Aggressively Biting:

@mickey I was taught to grab the pups bottom jaw. Thumb under the tongue and curled index finger beneath the lower jaw. Do this when the pup starts biting you. Apply a little downward force on the jaw. They will not like it and should stop biting. If the pup continues to bite apply a little more downward force until they stop.

This is usually very effective when they're young and first start exhibiting biting issues. This is usually the best way to prevent it from becoming a real problem when they get older.

However, OP's puppy is 8 months old and has been rehearsing this behavior already. If the dog has a real problem with biting, then the thumb under the tongue may amp the dog up and encourage him to be more fierce.

Of course this depends on how relentless and tenacious the dog is, and how long they've been rehearsing the behavior and learning to enjoy it, but Basenjis (in general) are known to fit this description. A lot of times the problem dog won't bite your finger in their mouth, but when you take it out, they lunge right back at you.

This technique is still worth a try though, but if it doesn't work or if the dog keeps biting, then you may want to stop.

@elbrant said in Soft-Serve Stool:

@scagnetti said in Soft-Serve Stool:

The top allergies that dogs have are to proteins.

Is there some kind of legit study that proves that dogs are allergic to protein? I get that dogs will eat veggies, but you are suggesting the elimination of protein, grains, potatoes, and rice? Aren't canines carnivores, i.e.; protein eaters, and not vegetarians?

I will agree that too much of anything can be harmful. I'm just not sure about jumping on the "dogs are allergic to meat" bandwagon....

I wasn't suggesting the elimination of protein, I was suggesting the reduction of it. I was however suggesting the elimination of carbohydrates.

Dogs are scavengers. They'll eat whatever they have to in order to survive.

Also, I didn't say that dogs were allergic to meat, I said that proteins are the top allergies that dogs suffer from. This is why there are so many different kind of proteins available i.e. ostrich, kangaroo, rabbit, lamb, alligator, bison, duck, etc.

As for studies, I'm sure you can find some on Google. I wouldn't be surprised if you found studies that report conflicting results.

All the best.

Most people in general don't care about dogs for the dog's sake, they care about them for themselves, if they do care at all. The fact is, most people that have dogs, shouldn't.

For a lot of people, dogs are something to come home to, not something to do things with and engage with. For the average pet dog owner, dogs are almost like accessory items. This is the main reason why their dogs are untrained. They haven't cared enough to educate themselves on how to engage with a dog or even interact with one. This is evident in the way that people treat dogs and behave around them. A great example is the fact that most people talk to dogs, unbelievably, but this is overwhelmingly the case. The dog doesn't speak or communicate with language, but the human isn't talking to communicate, they're talking to the dog for their own benefit and for their own sake. If they really wanted to communicate effectively with a dog, they would use body language and make use of verbal commands only after properly teaching them and only as a means of associative learning; which is the only reason verbal commands work, not because the dog understands what's being said but because they have learned to associated that noise with an object/idea/action.

In the end, people do what they want. I gave up caring about how other people act long ago. It's none of my business what they want a dog for; I wish them the best. I'm now only interested in helping people that are genuinely curious about learning how to effectively communicate with dogs and how to actually have a relationship with a dog and how to have a dog genuinely like you.

Take the dog for walks and bring high quality food rewards (like steak). Give the rewards while at a distance from strangers. The dog will tell you how much distance you should keep between the strangers and the two of you. (i.e. when the dog starts to react, you're too close; the idea is to communicate that strangers are nothing to be scared of. This is done by giving food to the dog in the presence of strangers. Depending on how reactive the dog is, you may have to keep a lot of distance at first. Keep doing this for several sessions, getting closer to strangers over many sessions, at your dog's pace.

If the dog is too reactive to even take food rewards, then you need to go back to confidence building, or try from an even further distance from strangers.

Best of luck.

@t89rex said in Wet weather exercise:

Hi all.

I'm a recent new basenji owner. Hugo is coming up to 12 weeks old and going great. Still some issues with chewing and nipping but improving quickly.

We're about to enter a third, unseasonably wet summer here on the east coast of Australia and as I believe is common for basenjis, Hugo won't countenance a walk in the rain. Do folks have any suggestions for how to help him get some exercise when he won't go out?

Thanks!

You walk in the rain? Or do you mean going for a walk after it's rained, when it's wet? Or do you mean going outside for the bathroom when it's raining?

If it's the second or third one, then you could just give him high value food rewards when he's out in the wet grass/cement. Pretty soon, he should stop caring, unless this is a serious issue, in which case you'll have to spend some time focused on this.

I suggest using something he loves but never gets, i.e. cheese dipped in peanut butter, or something similarly extravagant. You want him to really be motivated to go out in the wet.

Another thing is starting slowly with expectations and goals. If he runs out and runs back in, then that's progress. Keep training sessions and exercises short in the beginning, so that he you can end on high notes, and slowly increase duration the better he gets.

All the best.

@eeeefarm

A friend of mine used to have a psychic dog act. Great trainer who fooled a lot of people.

@azneff1 Management is almost always the answer.

I wouldn't let the puppy have access to the adult dog, or vice versa. And if everyone's in the same room together, the puppy should be in a pen or a crate.

Some dogs genuinely dislike puppies, for others, aggression towards puppies is a territorial issue. This sounds to me like a territorial issue, but I really don't know your dog.

It's obviously past a point of introduction in a neutral space, but that would have been the place to start. Usually walking them on different sides of the road where they can't get to one another but can see each other, is usually the way to go, i.e. one person has the adult dog on a leash on one side of the road, and another person has the puppy on a leash on the other side of the road.

Also, be careful about crating them next to each other if your adult dog has crate issues, i.e. spinning, screaming, crate aggression/guarding, etc. because the puppy can quickly learn bad habits or it could scare them. This is true with any behavioral problem by the way, I just mention it because others brought up crates.

Best of luck.

Just to clarify, the exercise I mentioned above (food rewards while exposed to rain/wet ground) is done for the purpose of socializing the dog to the rain and the sensation of wetness.

If the OP is asking about getting the dog to go to the bathroom while it's raining, then socializing the dog to the rain/wetness will cut down the time you'll have to wait outside with him.

The earlier the puppy is socialized to the rain, the less of a problem it'll be when it's older.

I suppose it's more of a value judgement than statement of fact.

I'm sure for some people, they're not that trainable. I also think this is true with every other breed as well. For a certain kind of person, any dog is untrainable. My experience has been that most pet dog owners and show people, have no clue on how to train dogs, of any breed.

I'm not sure I'm reading you right. If he has a problem when he is inside a room with a closed door, what I would do is take him into a room, close the door, and give him a high value reward. Then I'd do it 100 more times over the course of a few days/weeks depending on how reactive he is to being in a room when the door is closed. A lick mat after the door closes might be a good option as well.

@sanjibasenji How old is he now? Based on what you said, I'm assuming 8-11 months.

I'm not against proper use of e-collars in general, but 8-11 months is still pretty young. Admittedly, Basenjis mature fast, and I don't know your individual dog. Even so, I personally, would hesitate to use an e-collar on a dog that young.

And when it comes to teaching recalls specifically, I definitely wouldn't be using an e-collar that early in the training process. I would use it, but only much later when they're an adult, after I've done everything else and right before I'm ready to go into "real world" scenarios.

I would still be in the earlier stages based on his (presumed) age. I would still be training recalls with a competing motivator, and maybe distinguishing between call-offs and call aways if he was precocious. And then after that, leash pressure, preparing for use of positive punishment. And then finally e-collar use (positive punishment).

To each his own. Best of luck with the training.

@t89rex said in Wet weather exercise:

Thanks for your help everyone.

Rather than start a whole new topic for what I'm sure will be the second of many, many questions I have I was hoping I could ask you all here.

Hugo sleeps very well during the night, and often goes all the way through from 10 to 6 without needing a break. He also very calmly lets me know when he does need to go during the night which is great.

The trouble I have during the day is that like a human child he really doesn't seem to know when he needs rest. Often he'll come and ask for a cuddle and then go to sleep on my lap but I don't think I'm doing him any favours training him to need me to sleep.

When I think he's tired I often just put him in his crate and try to ignore him if he whinges, but he's had a few accidents in there. I have trouble distinguishing between general "I'd prefer to get out of this crate and be with you" which I don't want to reward, and genuine need to go out and toilet.

Does anyone have any tips to help him self regulate his sleep a bit better?

Great question.

Distinguishing between the kind of whining is difficult. I'll get more in detail about what to do later in the post. Also, if he's giving you no problems at night, then a few other things could be at work here.

To begin, I would recommend experimenting with more exercise in general, regardless of how much he's getting now. Some Basenji puppies have a seemingly unlimited supply of energy. That, coupled with a curious nature and a persistent and hard-headed character, makes for a dog looking to get into trouble.

Tiring him out sufficiently is essential.

---

The above is just general good practice that you should make sure you're doing, but specific to you:

At 12 weeks old, he doesn't know how to settle, you'll have to teach him this. I typically teach this while the puppy is on an elevated bed inside an ex-pen.

Put the bed & pen next to wherever you sit (couch/chair/bed/etc.) and feed the dog treats consistently while you're doing something else (on the computer, reading a book, watching television, etc.).

You're going to want to do this training exercise after physically exhausting him, otherwise you may have some difficulty with it.

Another thing that will be useful is to capture the behavior when he naturally does it.
Example:

• he walks over to his bed or crate, and lies down and settles by himself
• you take a treat out of your pocket and toss it on the ground next to him and go back to doing what you were doing and letting him do what he was doing

---

A big thing that will help you is starting to focus on crate training. If you start doing crate training exercises when it isn't bedtime, then it'll accelerate your progress.

Get him used to being in the crate during the day, and for different amounts of time. If he only goes in the crate at night and stays there for 8 hours, he might think he's going to stay in for 8 hours in the day too. Show him that sometimes he'll be in the crate for 2 minutes while you take out the trash or put the laundry in, and other times he'll be in the crate for 4-6 hours when you want to go out and get dinner downtown. Give him different pictures of the crate and what being in the crate is.

---

Also, getting him to like the crate is a big consideration as well. I think I have older posts that go into this, but the threads may have been deleted.

I'll just give one tip about it this post: put the crate next to the place you sit, put him in the crate, give him a chew treat (bully stick, pig's ear, etc.) and close the door, sit down next to him and do something where the attention isn't on him (computer, book, etc.), and let him self-satisfy and enjoy doing something on his own but in your company. This will greatly help him develop a calm and relaxed disposition around you. You want to be sure that you clock downtime like this with him, otherwise, he won't settle in your presence.

---

Lastly, the whining in the crate. At this young of an age, I would immediately go to the puppy the first time he whines and put a lead on him in the crate and walk him outside for toilet. If he goes, or if doesn't go after a few minutes, walk him back to the crate and put him back in. This is going to teach him that he will have a chance to go to the bathroom. If he whines after this, IGNORE HIM. This is important, otherwise you'll teach him to whine when he wants to get out and/or whining will be his way of calling you.

Luckily this doesn't usually last too long. Pretty soon he should get the idea that he will be given a chance to go to the bathroom, and you should stop going to him if he whines. Once he understands this though, a lot of the whining should stop (for now). Then you'll have to work on the whining he rehearses from not liking the crate/the sensation of having space restricted, and then the whining he rehearses from not wanting to be in there (this last one is dealt with by simply ignoring).

The best advice for this particular crate issue is this: take him to toilet first, then after he goes, put him in the crate.

Also, like all else, start slowly with the amount of time you leave him in the crate during the day.

All the best.

@yodabasenji said in biting..again:

Hello!
My sister and I wanted a dog for most of our life and that wish came true 2 weeks ago, we got a 9 week old basenji puppy named Yoda. We knew that basenjis can be a problem for a first time dog owner, but we did a lot of reading and researching, did an online puppy training class before getting him, but theory and practice rarely add up. We did talk to our breeder before getting the pup and she said that she sees no problem in us getting a basenji, because they are very kind and sweet dogs and can also be appropriate for a first time owners.

The first week was very hard, but I guess it's the same with all the puppies, because there is a lot of new things for all of us. The second week seemed easier at the beginning, but than these crazy biting episodes started happening.

The biting was a problem from the start, but at the beginning it was more of a nibble and it did not seem all that problematic. We still wanted to apply "no biting at all" rule and whenever he started to bite, we tried giving him a chewing toy, a bully or we tried luring him away with a treat and doing a simple trick like "sit" or "paw" or "twirl". It worked for a while and we did see less biting of furniture but now the biting has focused on us. Whenever he started biting us we did a timeout - we all went out of the room and closed the door for 30s-1min, which was usually enough time for him to calm down. We than continued with playing or whatever we were doing at that moment and if he started biting again, we did the timeout again. That also worked for short time, he even sat and waited for us to come back a few times, but even that method has failed for the last two days.

I don't know what is wrong, but now he has these demon dog Cujo moments, where out the blue, he starts biting us very hard, not in a playful way, but in a kill a person way. He bites so hard that I literally screamed a few times, because he was hanging from my foot and wouldn't let go (it's really hard to stay calm at these moments, because they are very sudden and painful).
I read here on this forum that biting is unacceptable and that a restraint should be used, but I tried pulling him away with a house line, putting my fingers under his collar, pushing him away and rolling him on his back, but all of those things made him even crazier and the biting frenzy worse. We were conditioning the collar for a week now (that is holding it while he was eating his meals calmly), but it's not helping. And also, I am not sure how much physical restraint can we use, because twice he started coughing when I pulled him away and I really think that was not supposed to happen. We also tried putting him in a crate once, but he went totally nuts, started jumping, biting, whining and we tried to ignore that in hope he'll calm down, but from all that stress (I guess?) he actually peed in the crate (and he never pees in his crate!).

We figured out, that one of the reasons for this behaviour is when he is super tired but obviously doesn't know how to calm himself down and crating him at these moments usually works, because he falls asleep very quickly. But today he got into this psycho mode right after a afternoon nap, so he was supposed to be well rested then? And also the peeing accident happened after another episode of sleep (he went potty in between).
My concern is that he is not sleeping well. During the day his naps last for and hour but during that time he wakes up a few times but usually falls back to sleep in a minute or less. After a nap he can be awake for 1-2 hours, sometimes even more. At night he sleeps a bit better, but wakes up twice to potty, so all in all he gets like 15 hours or less of not very good quality sleep. Could that be the reason?

I really doubt that it's boredom or lack of physical or mental stimulation causing this, because since he wakes up, we are constantly doing things together, teaching simple tricks (sit, paw, touch, heel, name, even some recall), going for a walk for at least 45min-1h, arranging play dates with other pups, so I really don't know what more can we do. Maybe we are doing too much and it's frustrating him?

He is now 11 weeks old and will start puppy school next week. We also had a dog trainer over 2 days ago but she didn't seem all that concerned and didn't offer much solutions to this problem.

At this moment we are actually thinking that we are not capable of handling this dog and that's why I need your help. And don't get me started with the leash puling..

Thanks!!

I'm inclined to quote myself on another post I made recently about the same topic:

@scagnetti said in Puppy teething/biting:

A lot of people put themselves in a position to get bit (i.e. touch the puppy when it doesn't want to be handled, keep hands in the puppy's face, etc.). The best thing, I've found, is to minimize the chance of getting bit by not putting yourself in a position to get bit.

In addition to respecting the puppy's space I would recommend doing handling drills (touch the puppy, give high value reward, repeat 100 times).

Another useful thing is to exercise the dog adequately. If you go for a 45 minute walk once a day and you're still getting bit then you need to increase the amount of walks and/or the amount of time on the walk.

Something else to consider would be not making a big deal of getting bit when it does happen (i.e. scream, get mad, squeal, etc.).

Last thing would be not to play with the puppy after he bites you. Puppies bite for many reasons; one of them is because they want to play, but if you play with them after they bite, you're teaching them that biting is an appropriate way to tell you that they want to play. A lot of people inadvertently teach their puppy to bite them.

Oh and when he starts biting when he's on your lap, calmly put him down and/or away in his crate. It sounds to me like you became a giant chew toy.

Best of luck, hope everything works out!

I think some of the information in that post will be useful to you.

Also, I would recommend managing your puppy in the house instead of giving him free-reign. This won't stop problems in and of itself, but it will prevent many behavioral issues from starting or progressing to an unmanageable level.

Another thing I think you all might benefit from is proper crate training and practicing being alone.

In addition to all of these things, I would build value in myself by training engagement. A dog that likes you is less likely to bite you, or at the very least, less likely to escalate things to such a heightened degree that you guys end up having a major fight.

You've only had this puppy for a couple of weeks; that's not a lot of time to build a relationship. Just respect his space, do the handling drills, exhaust him with sufficient exercise, build value in yourself, manage him in the house, crate train him, and you should make some progress.

(And I wouldn't be too worried about your sleep concerns.)

Best of luck!

@eeeefarm

Negative reinforcement = dog's behavior stops pressure
Positive punishment = an aversive consequence.

Negative = to take away/withhold
Positive = to add/give

Reinforcement = more likely to occur
Punishment = less likely to occur

Negative reinforcement = take away pressure so behavior is more likely to occur (you want dog to sit, you pull up on leash, he sits, you release pressure)

Positive punishment = add pressure so behavior is less likely to occur (dog jumps up, you punch him in the head)

These are extreme examples to illustrate the point. I've never hit a dog. But a lot of people only use positive punishment (in the form of hitting/beating).

For the record, I think everything has its place. It's simply a matter of how it's used and how effective it is in the situation that it's being used in.

I don't judge what others do. I don't particularly care. It's not my business. Just giving the information. A lot of people in different dog circles have different ideas of what things are.